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Old 09-02-2013, 08:23 PM   #51
Alan
 
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DIY itself doesn't quite escape consumerist society either way, does it?
When you spend more on a DIY object than on a store-bought substitute, whether in time or money, it's not done for practical reasons but rather for aesthetic, or worse, ethical ones. So it's folded back into a mainly middle class niche, which is also seen with Saya's example of prices driven up.
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You fucking people [war veterans] are only a step below entitled rich kids, the only difference being you had to do and witness horrible things, instead of being given everything.
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Old 09-03-2013, 03:49 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by Alan
DIY itself doesn't quite escape consumerist society either way, does it?
When you spend more on a DIY object than on a store-bought substitute, whether in time or money, it's not done for practical reasons but rather for aesthetic, or worse, ethical ones. So it's folded back into a mainly middle class niche, which is also seen with Saya's example of prices driven up.
That's really true. You see that especially in knitting and crocheting, there's a lot of people who are "yarn snobs" who only want to knit with expensive yarn. People got really disappointed that they couldn't get a ball of wool for cheaper than 8.99 a ball at Michaels, and the hand dyed stuff is way more expensive than that. But they'd rather break the bank than pay for a wool blend or god forbid acrylic.
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Old 09-03-2013, 04:43 AM   #53
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I've noticed that. It can also be paradoxically hilarious, like when people pay a fair amount of money for something that looks like it was messed with at home or damaged.

Usually my attempts are done from necessity, to fix holes or let out something I'm out-assing. (I would say outgrowing but I've reached my adult height.)
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Old 09-03-2013, 05:44 PM   #54
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I'd add sewing to the list, too. I can buy a black satin blouse on clearance, or at the thrift shop for $5-$10, but by the time I buy fabric, thread, buttons, pattern, etc, I'd have spent well more than that. My DIY tends to be more in embellishing or modifying purchased items than starting from scratch, for that very reason.

Also, I suspect that I may feel this way partly because I'm pretty young, and Hot Topic has been around for most of my life. So I used to read all these forum threads from people talking about how they used to have to make all their own stuff, or buy studded jewelery from sex shops, and here everyone I knew was wearing the same exact thing, bought at the mall. Probably faux nostalgia on my part, like people who never lived in the 50s but insist everything was way better back then.
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Old 09-03-2013, 09:29 PM   #55
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It really depends. I enjoy wearing band logos from my metalhead days but instead of shelling out $20-$50 a shirt, I'll buy a bunch of Hanes t-shirts, print out the band emblem I want and iron it onto the shirt. In doing that I've saved I don't know how much money. However, it's worlds apart from making an entire new outfit and I live by the rule to keep things simple in my clothing.
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Old 09-04-2013, 09:06 AM   #56
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As far as slavish consumerism goes, I feel like that's basically shared across just about every subculture. The difference between goth and pop is in WHAT you buy, not IF you buy.
That's not exactly what I meant but what I meant was that pop culture makes no bones about what they buy. I've yet to see a rabid eminem fan or whathaveyou say they're glad their hat came from fair trade and I've yet to EVER see them have stuff hand made unless their grandmothers are seamstresses or whatever. Basically, they don't really pretend to care about consumerism. However, they will be mildly politically active, paying lipservice to struggles such as equality between the genders, racism, and queer rights. Okay, racism not so much unless you prompt them about it.

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And I'm fine with that, really. It makes me happy to get a new skull scarf in the mail, or to buy a new pair of stompy boots. That doesn't automatically mean I quit reading or appreciating classical music. But goth still at least pretends to be about the "finer things" in life, where pop doesn't give a shit about elegance or good wine.
That is patently untrue. I'll have you know when I was doing the deathrock thing, there was NOTHING fine or classy about my lifestyle. It was fairly hedonistic, vain, and pretty damned friendly to boot. But that whole idea that goth is about deeper things. Nah, homie.
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Old 09-04-2013, 09:41 AM   #57
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Deathrock is the one fun thing in the goth subculture.
Where every other goth says "oh I wish Stephanie Meyer hadn't ruined vampires for all of us, not like Anne Rice who is totally a better author and in no way similar" the deathrocker just walks with his arms outstretched and says "yeah well I'm a Frankenstein monster"
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You fucking people [war veterans] are only a step below entitled rich kids, the only difference being you had to do and witness horrible things, instead of being given everything.
real classy
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Old 09-06-2013, 09:41 PM   #58
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I apologize for not replying sooner, as I am recovering from a tragic event in my life.

Anyway, I'm sorry Versus for acting like a douche bag. I shouldn't have insulted you. I was wrong for doing that. I am immature for my age; I have severe social problems--evidenced by the fact that I have few real life friends. I also have self-esteem issues and mental health issues.

Still, I am not trying to excuse my bad behavior, and so, I shouldn't have acted like a jerk in the first place.
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Old 09-06-2013, 10:14 PM   #59
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I have dabbled in DIY. My skills are not adequate enough IMO, though. I go to thrift stores from time to time. I also have some custom made clothing. I guess that goes against the traditional DIY ethic, though.

Although I have some Deathrock style clothes, most of my clothes consist of "casual" Gothic, casual, some Neo-Victorian, and some Baroque style clothes.

I have read comments on this board a few years ago, and from what I understand, Victorian and Steampunk style clothes are generally looked down upon. I can see why people can argue this case--part of the argument being that Victoriana, Steampunk, and other aristocratic styled fashions basically go against those that are well versed in history (the aristocracy has been proven by history to be oppressive), as well as the original Punk DIY ethics of the Goth subculture that is generally vehemently opposed to fashion.

For those that have to justify wearing Victorian styles and the like, I can see that there is a problem. However, I don't think it's wrong for someone to wear Victorian styled clothes, as long as the clothes are made with personalized, creative touches as opposed to being a carbon copy of an aristocratic style (ie. adding custom embellishments and such and making it unique as opposed to copying). I don't see fanciness/elegance and Goth as being mutually exclusive of one another.

Basically, I don't see a certain style in and of itself as being inherently bad.
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Old 09-16-2013, 08:09 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan View Post
Deathrock is the one fun thing in the goth subculture.
Where every other goth says "oh I wish Stephanie Meyer hadn't ruined vampires for all of us, not like Anne Rice who is totally a better author and in no way similar" the deathrocker just walks with his arms outstretched and says "yeah well I'm a Frankenstein monster"
I dunno, you still get elitism and analpain in deathrock. It must be like oxygen.

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Originally Posted by Alexian View Post
I have dabbled in DIY. My skills are not adequate enough IMO, though. I go to thrift stores from time to time. I also have some custom made clothing. I guess that goes against the traditional DIY ethic, though.

Although I have some Deathrock style clothes, most of my clothes consist of "casual" Gothic, casual, some Neo-Victorian, and some Baroque style clothes.
God, stop worrying about 'good enough'/'goth points' or I'll have to give you a cookie and a hug! Most of us are no longer goth so much as... someone help me here.
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Old 09-16-2013, 11:51 AM   #61
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I stopped caring a little after I started wearing people clothes only like 10% of the time.
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Old 09-21-2013, 10:42 AM   #62
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I dunno. I still have some fucking weird ass quirks with fashion though. I've noticed that I've been attracted to the patterns and designs of military uniforms. I now have a revolutionary jacket from East Germany and a Russian Army Blazer that I find myself wearing every now and then. It's like... hipster meets rivethead without all the gaudy gothic accutraments. And of course, this kind of thing seems to work for me. It looks good.
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Old 09-21-2013, 12:10 PM   #63
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What I carry inside me is an inner communist, and I can prove it: my blood runs red and my heart is to the left.

I'm so deep, bro.
Why did I have to find this AFTER my slideshow presentation on Marxism and it's applications in cultural anthropology? This would have been a great joke slide.
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Old 09-25-2013, 08:10 PM   #64
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Crazy Internetz

Ah, late to the party again? Oh well.

To answer the original question in the original post: A lot of folks have terrible misconceptions about Goth and what it is, because a lot of what Goth is about can be disturbing to folks. For instance, my MiL hates un-natural hair colors. When I dyed my hair Vampire Red (Manic Panic) after bleaching it, I thought she was going to burst a gasket! XD And I was in my early 30s at the time.

My best advice for folks you know IRL that you have to interact with: Talk to them as calmly and politely as you can, and explain the things you're interested in. Most folks calm down when they realize that wearing black all the time isn't a bad thing.

Also, I suggested visiting the Gothic Charm School and reading everything Jillian Venters has to say on the subject.

For crazy people on the Internet: Just avoid them. I used to spend a LOT of time on forums and such (including this one), trying to prove myself to folks I didn't know...and who didn't know me. It got so bad, it was starting to affect me IRL. I finally had to quit going to certain sites, and have nearly given up forum posting altogether in recent years. As a result, I've been TONS happier, more relaxed, and more self-assured. So, yeah...beware the Internet comment section! (OTOH, it can be fun to picture what the person you're speaking with online might look like. Seriously, would you even glance in the direction of this person if the two of you met on the street? Is it worth sacrificing your sense of well-being just to try and "win" an argument online? Answer: Nope! It really isn't. )
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Old 09-25-2013, 08:17 PM   #65
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Damn, looks like Iīve found the right place...

This "whoīs a goth and whoīs not" resonates with me a bit because I donīt really feel comfortable calling myself a goth because of my age and because I feel like I donīt "know enough" about goth to call myself one. Both of these points are kind of dumb, I guess.

However, I do not hide my "inner goth" just because I donīt want people to look at me strange, my wardrobe is all black and I have my share of piercings and rings. Not that these things make me a goth but I hope you understand what I mean.

P.S. I donīt want a pony, I want a bat. Well not really, with my luck sheīd just shit all over the place.
First Point: When I was starting to learn more about the Goth thing, I found two sources of immeasurable help: "Gothic Charm School" by Ms. Jillian Venters, and "What is Goth?" by Voltaire. Both are Elder Goths (meaning they are grown adults and have been Goth since their teens), and both are *incredibly* inspiring! Jillian has a website of the same name, and Voltaire has...well, he just has everything! lol

Second Point: If you'd want a bat, and you wear all black and were wearing, say, bat- or skull-inspired accouterments, I'd *definitely* think of you as Goth.
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Old 10-07-2013, 02:24 PM   #66
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I've noticed similarities between Goth Teens. It is mostly high-stress lives with moving, changing friends, and other issues causing grief. There might be a retaliation against society, yet not always. Anti-social behavior is not the main problem.

It creates a state of mind that last forever. I have friends and it is possible to move past basic conversation quickly. Everyone knows friends abandon each other to start a new relationship. Everyone will have to go off on their own for an unknown amount of time to establish themselves with work and education. There are a lot of social norms between Goths.

Even wearing black has a relationship to early exposure of deciding to do in a professional career while still in elementary school. It is standard to look more conservative and reliable by wearing black or dark clothing in most professions. Even when I was young, I was not really thinking about looking like a Goth as much as noticing the advice for Teens who are looking for jobs or wanting to be taken seriously.

To think all of that just disappears after a certain age is ridiculous.

I wonder if New Order is considered Goth. It is one of my favorite bands.

True Faith:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mpqmUi75mI
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Old 01-07-2014, 07:55 PM   #67
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Opinions from the new old guy.

Getting older is winning. The alternative is losing.

Feel free to like and be into whatever you want however you want but refrain from hating the stuff you are not into. Down that path lies douche-baggery.

If you want to be accepted as you are accept others as they are.

There are no rules to this shit, make of it what you will.

Simple really...

Surviving since 1967
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Old 01-19-2014, 12:58 PM   #68
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Opinions from the new old guy.

Getting older is winning. The alternative is losing.

Feel free to like and be into whatever you want however you want but refrain from hating the stuff you are not into. Down that path lies douche-baggery.

If you want to be accepted as you are accept others as they are.

There are no rules to this shit, make of it what you will.

Simple really...

Surviving since 1967
Good opinions. The old young folk have some good opinions too. They have taught me more than I taught them. And by the way, you're just a pup. I will be the first active member to reach 60 (that I know of). .
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