Racism can bite me.

[Rizash]

Alright, first... I HATE racism. My grandfater is a true WWII generation racist, through and through and it drives me crazy. I love him to death but I hate racism and I cant stand people who are so closed minded as to hate people just for their race.

That being said... WTF? This entire Michael Richards thing is way WAY out of line. Sure, the guy's a jerk and said some things he shouldnt have said. Maybe he is racist maybe he was trying to make a bad joke (holywood is full of racists etc... and he could have picked up some bad influence but he may not be that bad?) I dont know and thats not ANYBODY's place to judge. Hate the guy if you will, but then he'll blame you guys (the media, and people who take words harshly) for ruining his career over a few words in bad taste. Then again, maybe he is racist and its what he needs to change his ways, I dont know..... All I know is healing begins by being able to take someone's words with a grain of salt, they are only words.

Once more, that being said.... We have such a double standard in this country (the US I'm talking) and I dont think those of you from other Europe know it (you also have less... well hell, you cant call them african americans because they're not americans, umm.... you guys have less darker skinned people than we do (unless thats an incorrect assumption for your particular area, lol). We have a double standard in education (at the required school level its to the disadvantage to the minorities) and in the job market.... Affirmative action is such a BS ploy to try to make people happy and it is totally unfair. I know people who have been denied jobs or college entry simply because they were white(dont hate me for saying this, please read my entire post). On the same note, in schools the history of racism is taught, including all the negative words and their origins, adding fuel to the fire. Why do we keep fighting one side when the racism is JUST AS BAD on the other side? Since the majority are super afraid of the minority now (if you are accused of saying one racist thing your career can be destroyed, it might be good if it stops true racists, but damn its scary) the old school extremeists are really getting out of hand.... My proof? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0FI82DOuxE
Yes, I know, the KKK and black panthers were always this way, but who has the guts to go on NATION WIDE PUBLIC ACCESS TV and say we need to kill 180,000,000 people? And yet the guy gets applause? Ugh... This did not make CNN news, this didnt make ANY headline anywhere.....
For perspective... those of you against the war in Iraq... I say to you we have just as much tension in this country as they have there, we simply have more laws and more long term sustained order that makes us feel more protected from it. This nonsense needs to end now.... We need to start RESPECTING each other. People talk about banning the N word, etc.... Do that, from rap, from everything. The old school racists will NEVER learn (on either side). But at the same time make everything equal, get rid of affirmative action, get rid of ALL racial references on all forms (aside from dating service applications since hooking up a racist with someone of another race might not turn out too well, ugh) racial references only add to the tensions. Fix the system and let people learn to like each other, instead of having families hate each other, since hate runs from generation to generation, love only stays within friends, families, and lovers.

Last... it needs to be said.... You guys are too freaking cool I dont think there is a person here I wouldnt concider a friend. Sure some of you might be radically different from me, but we've all seen more down sides to humanity than the average person will ever see. More over I think most of us know what its like to be middle class, and we may not get much respect or glory from the world, but at least we have the respect and friendships we forge within those groups of people we associate with. I'm glad I found this forum, and I'm glad to sit beside you (too bad its only digitally ) and call you all friends.

Lets do what so many others seem to be incapable of doing. Respect EVERYONE we come across and treat them as friends. Maybe if those who have been stepped on their entire lives show enough thanks to the world, maybe we can inspire some people.

Skin doesnt matter, black clothes good music and a good personality are what life is all about. NEVER LOSE YOURSELF.

[Rizash]

OK, cute... three nasty K letters got turned into the mickey mouse club, so now instead of white sheets and racist freaks I'm talking about big ears? Maybe I should make a rant: Filters can bite me!

Aww hell, the filter put me in a good mood *pouts* *sighs* I love you guys!

[Rizash]

Interesting way of putting it. And I will say this... I'm against afirmative action/payback/whatever for one reason. Racism continues in this country, and it always will until there are no laws on either side that "draw lines in the sand" so people no longer need to step over the line to challenge status quo. People always seem to start stuff if the option is drawn. My ancestors may have been pesants, they may have been indentured servents, I dont know, nor will I ever know. All I can say is your ancestors have given you a chance they never had, to treat everyone equally, and to one day raise children in a fair, and equal world. Sure its not heaven, but at least we can raise them in a world with less hate, not more hate than we know.

Sorry to start such a dangerous topic, but as the previous post said, some things cannot go unsaid forever. Becides, there is no more accepting community than the goth community (this is a good way to show it too!)

[Firestorm]

Welcome to planet Earth.

When you try to mix two different ethnic groups together, you get ethnic conflicts.
It has always been like this and it will probably remain like this for a long long time. Racism is part of human nature.

[LostAndCrazy]

Actually I agree. The human race will always find ways to discriminate. If it isnt color of your skin, it is religion, if it isnt religion, it is the way you dress, etc. This is because of our herd like mentality and our need to identify with something, be a part of something that forms groups and we all know what groups do to each other. "Never underestimate the stupidity of people in large groups".

Fuck the human race.

[Rizash]

You guys point out what I still deny.... I think given enough time and patience things could work out.... But I DO realize that progress comes with sacrafices. Humanitys greatest achievements (medicines technology, material development, etc...) have all come mainly due to war or other self destructive competitions (industrial, monitary, military, etc...) The people on this forum are indeed very different from one another yet in general get along great. Then again 50 years ago kids got the crap beaten out of them if they did something stupid. Maybe in schools we should have "tolerance training" where kids go through all kinds of hell (teasing taunting verbal abuse of all types) just to teach them to put up with human stupidity and so that hopefully they see that it isnt fun and they will tone down their intolerance towards others, but.... we live in happy bunny fluffy society where we have to cover our problems with paper bags and water them down so that they look like they're taken care of yet the same issue can come out swinging next time around so the blame game can be played again. Ah well, again you guys rock.

[LostAndCrazy]

I agree that we are very different from each other, on this forum in any case, but the only reason we get along is tolerance. There isnt a lot of tolerance out there in the world for other thoughts and ideas and for people that are different (in whatever way that might be).

[DarkHeartedDemoness]

Originally Posted by Rizash

(you also have less... well hell, you cant call them african americans because they're not americans, umm.... you guys have less darker skinned people than we do (unless thats an incorrect assumption for your particular area, lol).

You can say "black". It's not offensive, nor a bad word. I'm white. I'm not offended when I get called that (except for when my roommate calls me a skinny little white girl in that tone... Then it seems to have a negative connotation).

I hate when people tiptoe around race issues, and pretend to be "colorblind". IT'S OK TO SEE RACE. I do. I can see that there's a difference between a black girl and a white girl. I can also see that they're equal-- but not the same. That's ok.

I would also be interested in knowing what you're basing your assumption on. Have you read a study that says "There are more black people in the US than in Europe"?

[Rizash]

Screw it, I started another big reply but I hate ranting about immigration/pollitical issues that our governing bodies are too corrupt to fix.

Just FYI where I stand.... Sure people are different, and it makes the world amazing. If we were all the same it would be boring!

Also... I HATE the term caucasian... Thats why I'm a bit upset by this entire situation. I dont know why, but I hate all derogatory racial terms. "Native American" "African American" "Hispanic" "Asian" They're all needless and disruptive. As far as I'm concerned I'm an American, plain and simple. ANYBODY living in this country is the same, screw all this rude drawing a line in the sand nonsense. WE are all simply the NATIONALITY of the country that we live in. Those of you in the old world have more issues with looking at it that way, but given a certain time scale there is NO Native American, we're all here through very strange happenings, and that should join us, not divide us. ALL of us deserve to be "brand free". And I do have one other thing to say.... If you're racist... get over it. We can prove through mitochondrial DNA that there is a "genetic eve" and that we all have common roots. People need to get over the fact we are all the same, we're just slightly different in appearance/attitude. At any rate, you guys rule Sorry to start such a stupid rant topic, sheesh. *hugs everyone*

[DarkHeartedDemoness]

You know what? Fuck that. If you're going to deny your heritage and the heritage of everyone else, feel free. I personally am damn proud of my heritage, of where my ancestors are from.

I'm not colorblind. I'm white. My ancestors were from Germany. I am proud of my great-great-grandmother who came here with a two-year-old child and no husband to make a life for herself here. Just because I am now currently residing in the USA doesn't mean I have any intention of forgetting her.

My roommate's ancestors had a completely different story. Part of that is because she's hispanic. Should I deny her the right to being proud of her ancestors because we're "all the same"?

We're NOT. We're equal, yes, but we are NOT the same. And that's something to be proud of.

[DarkHeartedDemoness]

Originally Posted by Rizash

Also... I HATE the term caucasian... Thats why I'm a bit upset by this entire situation. I dont know why, but I hate all derogatory racial terms. "Native American" "African American" "Hispanic" "Asian" They're all needless and disruptive.

Fuck that, too... That's not derogatory. I can think of a TON of derogatory words, but you haven't listed one.

[Godslayer Jillian]

There's a difference between ethnic differentiation and ethnic stratification.
Example: I have a problem with placing all mexicans as middle-lower class workers; but if there were no ethnic differentiation, the term Latin Lover would be politically incorrect.

[Crying_Crimson_Tears]

I hate racism just as much as homophobia. Pisses me off.

[Rizash]

Some people dont concider caucasian racist, but I do.... Its making up some classification of people that I belong to, and steriotyping them. This is NO different than the "goth murder madness" steriotype. It may appear innocent, but as long as people believe they are in a group they will try to fit in, and complacency and trying to fit in cause most of our social problems.

My ancestors were German, English, Scottish, etc... and I will NEVER forget or deny them. I will remember them and am greatful they made me who I am. That being said, I love myself too much to concider myself white, caucasian, or any other ethnic group because I am more than the flesh you see with your eyes. THIS is what racism is about and this is where it needs to end. If you cannot see people for above face value then I'm sorry but you need to learn what being human is.

[BlackButterfly]

I'd rather be called "'black" than "African-American". I don't know when that stupidity started, but I don't think the last 5 generations of my family have seen Africa outside of National Geographic/The Discovery Channel. "Black American" would be cool, or "of African descent", but there are white "African-Americans" in this country too (I knew a family from South Africa a while back...).

As for affirmative action, like many things, it started as a good idea, back when it was im-freakin'-possible for a minority to get a high-level job that he actually may have been qualified for but could not get based on the color of his skin; back when, unless you were white, you could only be a laborer, or maybe join the military. However, like most beneficial programs that have been around too long without any major changes to protocol, affirmative action has been abused over time and either needs to be revamped or ended altogether...

[DarkHeartedDemoness]

I just think it's ridiculous that we've reached a point in our culture where it's considered rude to notice people's race. I would never judge someone based on race, but there is NOTHING WRONG with noticing it! Does anyone watch The Office? Do you remember how hilariously offensive Michael Scott's colorblind bit was? There is no reason to pretend that you don't see someone's race.

That's not to say that prejudice doesn't exist, or that we shouldn't fight for equality. I firmly believe that we are all equal, and should be seen as more than just a member of a race or an ethnicity. I won't argue against us being people first.

I think, personally, that pretending that race doesn't exist, or becoming offended when someone says, "Oh, you mean the black girl?" when you're referring to someone and can't figure out how to describe them, is racist. You wouldn't be offended if someone said, "Oh, you mean the girl with glasses?", would you? Race exists. That's ok.

[BlackButterfly]

Exactly. Sometimes there is no other way to describe someone. You should see how people tiptoe around saying "the black girl in Imports". I know everyone else besides me in my department is not black, and I know I am. I really don't care when someone points it out unless, like someone said before me, it's in "that tone".

I don't have a problem saying "that white girl" or "that Hispanic guy" or anything else that gets the point across efficiently enough. Ask me how to find my boss in a second and I'll say without hesitation: "She's the short white lady with the fluffy mushroom haircut and a voice like a cat."

[Godslayer Jillian]

That description reminded me of something Lewis Carrol might say.

[Rizash]

Hrm, you people have really positive attitudes, and this thread opened my mind a bit.... I think being afraid of racism is as bad as being racist. I suppose the problem is that we dont mingle enough with each other to be at ease. Well hell... *ponders* this REALLY makes me wish there was a goth club around here.... It'd be somewhere for people to actually meet other people. In a city of 62,000 people there is NOWHERE to meet other people.... it really sucks.

[Mick Ignis]

Originally Posted by BeckySlater

Damn skippy. Race is an indicator of how you *might* appear, and what your heritage *might* be. It's not who you are. To define yourself only by your race means that you really haven't accomplished anything.

True words. It makes more sense to be proud of your interests than your race. Usually, when people ask me what my heritage is, I say American or Goth.

So many white trash rednecks are racist because they have nothing else to be proud of but the skins on their backs.

[Splintered]

I really don't understand the point of racism. I've heard random references to "Race Wars", and how it's going to be "Black Against White", or something along those lines. I'm thinking, if I was going to fight a war, wouldn't you want as many friends on your side? Wouldn't that simply bypass the entire war altogether?

I don't get the point of identifying people by race either. I'm good with computers, so an analogy I would use, it to define users. If I was asked to define a user on my network, I wouldn't be going, "Oh, that's the guy who uses KDE, or GNOME, or etc." (They're window managers, fyi). I'd use characteristics like, "Oh, your using for User0001, she's the one who runs computer 0011." So, to say, "Oh, that's the black guy over there", makes no sense to me. There are too many black guys period, just like there are too many KDE or GNOME users. Then again, if I don't think I would be offended by it either. I mean, if someone pointed me out and said, "Oh, there's the Xfce user", I'd just smile and nod. So, that'd also apply to race, "That's the white guy over there". I'd just smile and nod too. For me, it just seems more practical not to, it saves a lot of confusion.

[DarkHeartedDemoness]

Originally Posted by Splintered

There are too many black guys period, just like there are too many KDE or GNOME users

Yes, that's often true, but see:

Originally Posted by BlackButterfly

I know everyone else besides me in my department is not black, and I know I am.

Let's say someone walks in to my place of business, asking for me. Well, we're mostly white in my office (it's the Midwest), so identifying me as "the white girl" doesn't make sense. If someone were looking for me, they's ask for the girl with the glasses. There are only 2 girls in my occupation, and I'm the one with glasses.

The other girl that works at my office, doing the same job as me, is asian. If they were looking for me, they'd point out my most obvious physical difference: my glasses. If they were looking for her, they'd point out her most obvious physical difference: her race.

That's not racist. That's just common sense.

[Tumor]

"Why is it every time they get caught with their racism blowing like a white sheet in the wind, whites start talking about "Poverty Pimps" and what Chris Rock and Dave Chappelle do?"

*sarcasm on*
Funny how this is only noticed right after a white guy fucks up and says something racist. And interresting how it's not noticed when no white guy has fucked up in a while...
*sarcasm off*

[Tumor]

My thoughts exactly.

[Rizash]

Originally Posted by BeckySlater

A spotlight only illuminates what is there to begin with, ya know?

Totally true, but again... Hollywood screws with people.... People that ARE NOT racist pick up bad humor, use it on friends, and when they try to bash someone like they would bash a friend sometimes it just ends up really hurting....

Again, though.... I DONT understand.... Why is it that one white dude nobody cares about gets CNN news for getting pissed that someone was ruining his act, and he shows his anger at them in a really bad way.... I dont know how racist he is, but people do strange things when they're raging mad (some non violent people turn violent when their back is to the wall, right?). This was in front of a small crowd in a racially diverse area....
YET.... when someone says "we need to exterminate the white people" (or did he say white race?) on CSPAN... public access nation wide TV.... nobody says a word?
I ended up in a conversation about the immigration issue with a friend the other day... really made me think about this again. I overlooked the fact that many americans might be pissed at mexican illegals NOT because they are who they are, but because this country has lost millions upon millions of jobs to mexico/other free trade countries (note: most americans only really think of mexico, but we also lose hundreds of thousands to asia).... In the process putting huge financial strain on families and entire cities. They also ruin the US run companies names by making far inferior products due to sub-standard practices and under-trained work forces (thankfully this is helping some jobs return to the US, as I know of many companies whos costs have gone up and sales have gone down after having to make 2-3X as many parts to replace poorly built ones, and losing sales due to unsatisfactory products). Maybe people just take out their anger over NAFTA out on mexicans in general? I dont really know, but I know this country will come back to making more money than we spend the day that NAFTA/other free trade crap ends. As far as the immigration issue.... I still say we should have two minimum wages. One minimum wage $4-5 an hour for people who are not high school grads. Anyone of high school education or above should have an established minimum wage of at least $10 an hour, as this is about the minimum you can satisfactorally live on. It still means no car, no owning a house, etc.... But at least you're not out in the cold. And of course... to all US citizens and people who LEGALLY apply (should be made easier) to become citizens... education should be free. (Keep in mind in THIS city (much cheaper than most) for primary education it costs on average $1000 per year to keep a person in school (hence why we pay insane taxes). As far as college, it MUST be made free if this country is going to stay alive economically. The average citizen here can no longer afford to go to college, period. The problem with immigrants is simple, if they get free education/a reasonable minimum wage they would most likely send much $$$ back to mexico to help their family/friends.... But heck, if we fix the job structure here, and make cost of living reasonable again then the jobs WILL come back, better workers = better products.