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Old 11-08-2006, 04:37 AM   #1
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Physical abuse based upon gothic appearance only

hi there! i am new to gothic.net. before you kill me, understand i posted this thread in the General section not in the Introductions section, because i am introducing myself or telling you a bit about myself, but also starting a thread based upon the title as well... and i couldnt post this thread without giving you a bit of background info on me anyway.

also, i did think of posting this in the Whining section, but i figured in the General section this will get more replies, as i definately know this will be an interesting topic, as i have the super power of pre meditation. and dont insult me saying that isnt the correct word, or i shall curse you.

anyway my name is Ken, and my last name is also Wheeler as i have conveniantly made public to the public.

i live in Sydney, Australia and i ride a kangaroo to school.

im not sure where to start, so i shall start where my mind thinks me. yes that is obviously what i will be doing wether i write that or not, but dont insult me saying that was unneeded, or i shall curse you.

i live in a town called Bankstown, in Sydney. i grew up there and went to school there. Bankstown has one of the most ethnically diverse communities in Australia, or so Wikipedia says. I say Bankstown is full of lebs.

ill stop and say lebs is a slang or short word for Lebanese. because not all are familiar with this terminology.

now to get straight to the point, if i were to walk into Bankstown station wearing black, i would be shot. many many times. over and over again.

that sentance was exagerrated yes, i would not be shot, but it is unimaginable the abuse you would get if you walked around Bankstown dressing 'differently'. you cannot avoid fights. you get punched for dressing alternatively. you get punched for no reason at all. without fighting back, without talking back, without even saying a word you get put to the ground and beat up.

the Lebanese have absolutely no acceptance of the gothic/punk/emo or more broadly defined, 'alternative' cultures.

being Anglo-Saxon myself, it was very tough growing up in this enviroment. i was rather lonely in high school and did not have good social skills, but thats not really the point.

the point is, Bankstown is one of the places i know in the world that i will never be accepted into. it is so bad if i spend just a day in Bankstown shopping centre, i will be beaten up. that is a fact.

i do wear black, not always but most of the time. i also have some facial piercings, four lip piercings, four nostril piercings and six piercings on my left ear. those are the most visbly striking of my piercings. i broke my leg recently and havent been out in over a month, and i have also been unemployed for a while, i have a job now though. i have had many ideas but due to lack of money, have not been able to buy the materials needed. theres not much point going into detail, but i am shopping around for a past-knee-length pvc skirt. i am male. straight too, but thats not the point either, id just like to mention that as well. basically im saying when i go out next, my style would what you would call 'extreme'.

there arent many goths/punks/alternatives in Sydney city. its quite disapointing really. the tolerance level for us is quite low. it is very usual to hear stories of goths getting beat up. i know as i was and still are one of those who suffer. i was beat up every week in high school for a few months. the physical factor doesnt come into play. sure, i got bruises and cuts. but the most damage done was all in my brain. its more psychological damage. stuff that kids shouldnt have to go through.

now, i have never been overseas or even out of this state.

the question i am asking in this thread is... how is gothic life, in any part of the world excluding Sydney/Australia? i have been told there are many goths in Germany.

i would quite like to know, as i definately will be going overseas at some point in my life, hopefully as soon as i can. i quit school in year 10 because it was too much to deal with. i was going quite well in my studies, but i simply could not bare to continue in that school, in that town. i am now 16 and i left school last year. i have been working in call centres, as i didnt want to work as a bricklayer or builder or any type of labouring job, i personally think they are derogatory jobs for the uneducated. however i do hold respect for anyone in this field of work.

i seem to have written quite a bit... oh well, if you clicked on the thread title then you must have wanted to read it =) heres a summary of my question and experiences and the purpose of this thread.

i live in Bankstown, in Sydney Australia. i was beat up on a regular basis, for dressing alternatively. i suffered physical, verbal and psychological abuse so much so it has affected my entire life and influenced the life-changing decisions i have made. how is life in your particular part of the world, and what are your experiences of being alternative and how have you been treated?
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Old 11-08-2006, 05:14 AM   #2
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While it's great that you held on to your individuality, I wouldn't take that abuse sitting down. Sorry that it has negatively impacted your life so much. In the northern US, and probably all the US, culture emphasize individuality so there isn't much abuse, just ridicule by the school idiots. Also due to the stereotyping of goths as Satanic killers or individuals who are emotionally distressed, goths are usually left alone in my school for fear of another "Columbine incident." For the most part, the tolerance is due to the northern US' emphasis of individuality not the fear of violence by goths.
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Old 11-08-2006, 05:47 AM   #3
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If dressing differently is important enough to you, find a way to tolerate people's reaction. You might join a self-defense class? Anyway, if you don't want to be put in danger, just dress "normally".
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Old 11-08-2006, 12:01 PM   #4
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I agree with Knightmare that in the US, people are less likely to beat you up, and more likely to be afraid of you or make fun of you. Of course, then all you have to do is show up wearing a trenchcoat the next day, they think "Oh, crap, it's Columbine all over again", and they'll leave you alone after that. No one wants to get shot, as I'm sure you know.

I agree that self-defense could be very useful. It'll keep you from being beat up as badly, if nothing else, and it'll probably boost your self-confidence a bit. Maybe they'll lay off once they realize that you're not going to sit and take it. I don't think you should change your appearance because of other's reactions unless you are seriously injured, or threats on your life are made. The violence you're dealing with now is horrible, but they want you to change, that's why they're doing it. If you don't want to change, you shouldn't have to. If you do though, go right ahead.

Now that I've successfully talked in circles (I have a habit of doing that), I'll stop talking. But first, I'd like to say, welcome to gothic.net, and we won't beat you up here! 'Tis hard to do over the internet, anyways.
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Old 11-08-2006, 04:43 PM   #5
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Save up money and move out of Australia I'd say O.o Canada would be the best place to move to without loosing too much money with the currency exchange I'd think. I once wanted to visit Australia if only to see the dingos, but no more! Have you thought of getting homeschooled or taking classes online? Lack of high school diploma in the US is a rather harsh thing and I'm taking it's the same in Sydney. Self-defense! O.o Take a few classes that are for those who are fighting multiple opponents and carry a knife. If they are ganging up on you and you use knife in defense, you're good. Unless they take it away on you and turn it against you. >.<
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Old 11-09-2006, 02:40 AM   #6
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i dont take the abuse sitting down... thats how i got into fights in the first place.

i see life as eighty or so years between two eternities, and i want to make the most of it... which means never running from a fight, standing up for myself. after all, ill be dead soon!

self defense is a great suggestion, but i am tall and slim anyway. i dont think you understand... these people travel in groups and carry knives. not good. and no matter how many self defence classes you take, you cant defend yourself when surrounded by eight men. that only happens in jackie chan movies.

confidence isnt the problem. i listen to angryangry metal like Slayer, Sepultura, Morbid Angel, Cryptopsy and the wonderful Australian Psycroptic. ahh i may be in the wrong forum. ha. the point is, music gives me all the confidence i need to feel invincible.

but ah, Knightmare. that is great to hear! i would love stereotyped as a Satanic killer and left alone. that would be my heaven! you see, Sydney has restricted my life and i cant be who i want to be. its crap.

ok so the solution seems to be simple now. save up, move out.

hey wait that was my plan in the first place... now i need to decide where to travel to.
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Old 11-09-2006, 04:28 PM   #7
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Well, I live in New York City, and although what people have said about the US, it is quite different here. Different from the regular suburban towns, the city is thriving with a Goth culture, some with the stereotypical, but most with the real sense. Individuality is very outspoken here, but most of what you could get is ridicule. You could be a boy with a "feminine" aspect and be ridiculed as a homosexual. It just really all depends.

But most of what I have seen here in New York, it isn't the teens, it's the people who govern the city. The Goth/Punk areas of Manhattan are slowly diminishing. Stores are being closed down with new, chic restaurants opening. The city is pushing away our only place to have community for a place to attract ever more "classy" tourists. The sad part is, the culture is dying off here. Nobody cares to even try to resurrect and fight back. You may go to Philadelphia, which holds many all ages clubs, and the home of Dancing Ferret Discs, where a lot of Goth/Industrial bands record their music. It's thriving there without anticipation.

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Old 11-09-2006, 05:21 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenwheeler
ok so the solution seems to be simple now. save up, move out.

hey wait that was my plan in the first place... now i need to decide where to travel to.
::dons 'travel agent' hat::

Come to the US! You won't get beat up by anti-goth 'lebs', you can further your education (quitting high school isn't the end of everything! We have alternatives to HS diplomas...), and be surrounded by people who'll probably say little more about how "different" you are than "I *LOVE* your accent!"

OK, that's the end of my 'travel agent' routine...
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Old 11-09-2006, 08:03 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackButterfly
::dons 'travel agent' hat::

Come to the US! You won't get beat up by anti-goth 'lebs', you can further your education (quitting high school isn't the end of everything! We have alternatives to HS diplomas...), and be surrounded by people who'll probably say little more about how "different" you are than "I *LOVE* your accent!"
heh, sounds like the US is the place to go! i really feel like my creativity and DIY goth/deathrock fashion is being wasted upon this mean mean city.

Neurosis, New York has been somewhere ive wanted to go for a long time. im not quite sure what you're saying though, are the people who govern the city goths or are they the ones who ridicule the goths?

sometimes i think Sydney is growing more and more goths every day, but othertimes i think not. generally on a saturday around the Town Hall/city area we get a lot of 'kids'(i call them), but they are more emo based. it is very rare to find an androgynous male goth in this city. and we have a fair amount of metalheads, but not goths.
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Old 11-10-2006, 12:37 AM   #10
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Hello Ken =]
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Old 11-10-2006, 12:34 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenwheeler
Neurosis, New York has been somewhere ive wanted to go for a long time. im not quite sure what you're saying though, are the people who govern the city goths or are they the ones who ridicule the goths?
You could say that. The society of New York doesn't care who you are as a person. There are many crazy people here, especially those in the Subways who claim to be beggars and con people for their money. There was even one person on the 6 train that repeatedly cursed out loud about a woman, and out loud kept cursing about her in front of everyone!

What I am saying is that the only place where Goths and the like can communicate is being pushed off to make room for those whom they have more favor in. It's like, don't they have about more than 95% of Manhattan for the tourists? Why push us away to make room for them? Leave us all alone to where we can all join together. They do not want us here, and in doing so, closing down most clubs and stores. Already, 8th St. is occupied with many shoe stores, and St. Mark's Place has restaurants. Those areas were there for us since the cultures began in the 1970s, and it is like there is no importance for them.

It's a very sad time for us here in New York. The people have no bother with us, but those in charge of the city, do. They are bullying and shoving us out.

--Neurosis
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Old 11-10-2006, 02:33 PM   #12
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Go take some karate lessons and kick their faces in next time they try to beat you up.
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Old 11-10-2006, 02:48 PM   #13
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Take self defense classes, then fuck them up!

Yeah.


And save money to move out. You can get your GED in the USA, I know. I don't know how that runs in other coutnries, so I won't make anything up. lol

In the USA, most people who do care will threaten you, but usually not doing anything. Like, 'cause we have guns now.

The ones who do beat people up are few and far between; just don't move to Tex-Ass.
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Old 11-10-2006, 06:58 PM   #14
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Yes, Miss Morgan is right, stay away from Texas, low tolerance for alternative lifestyles.

Move to Southern California! HUNDREDS of Goth clubs! (not clubs to hit Goths, DANCE clubs!)

Even middle aged Goths barely get a second look. Hindus wander around in native Indian dress, as do Africans (and some African-Americans), Afghanis, there are bi-racial couples walking hand in hand, there are so many different cultures here, that being Goth is just part of the colorful background of daily life. I have traveled to 38 states in the USA and California is the most liberal and accepting of anyone who is different.
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Old 11-10-2006, 07:35 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HumanePain
stay away from Texas, low tolerance for alternative lifestyles.
Haha, then I must be the only Texan goth that's not only tolerated, but admired.
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Old 11-10-2006, 09:00 PM   #16
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I live in Australia in a rural city, I have never been beaten on just by how I like, and this is what someone said to me one day.

The heckler: "ugly boots"
me " like oh my God ugly face!"

And there you have it. Another reason I don't get beaten on is because I usually get around in a crowd or with my parents =) it works for me. And I usually don’t dress "alternatively".

EDIT
There no need to move out of the country, I was led to believe Australia was more tolerant with alternative life styles in comparison to America. But I now believe it is a city thing. The country is very tolerant mostly because we're laid back and quite frankly don't give a shit.
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Old 11-11-2006, 12:54 AM   #17
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Move to Tasmania. Me and my friend dressed in all black to embarrass our friend, then, that failing to raise a pink in her cheeks, wrapped ourselves in bubblewrap and rolled down the mall.

We're real cool.
And I agree with MM
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Old 11-11-2006, 04:01 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MotherofMercies
EDIT
There no need to move out of the country, I was led to believe Australia was more tolerant with alternative life styles in comparison to America. But I now believe it is a city thing. The country is very tolerant mostly because we're laid back and quite frankly don't give a shit.
*laugh* Now that is quite the opposite in the US. City people do not care, but conservatives in rural areas are very spiteful towards people with dark clothing styles.

--Neurosis
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Old 11-11-2006, 05:43 AM   #19
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Hm, now here in Melbourne there are so many people dressed alternatively, and others don't give a shit too. I thought people in Sydney were quite tolerant to alternative lifestyles too, since I assume there must be different cultures brought by the immigrants. Was I wrong then.
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Old 11-11-2006, 10:27 AM   #20
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There is a 'whining' section because though misery loves company, people are not miserable all the time. :P

Anyway, people do treat Goths differently, but you'll find that people just attack whomever isn't one of their own and even their own. Some people are unhappy, violent jerks with no self-control. It isn't necessarily related to Goth or not. Probably just had abusive parents that never allowed them to be a kid. While we should feel bad, we don't because they are yelling at us and everyone like they think it is okay.
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Old 11-11-2006, 10:50 AM   #21
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Haha, then I must be the only Texan goth that's not only tolerated, but admired.
That's because you're like, the unofficial god of this forum. Obviously, some of your godly awesome-ness carries over into real life. xP
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Old 11-11-2006, 11:37 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian
Haha, then I must be the only Texan goth that's not only tolerated, but admired.
You have a charisma I lack Jillian. Everytime I go there I am treated like a second class citizen, unless I dress like a normie. Obviously I cannot generalize, there are some very nice people there (my mother was born in Harlingen TX).
Dallas-Ft.Worth is a little more metropolitan, but Austin, Lubbock, Houston are for the most part very conservative/conformist in a "redneck" manner in how they treat "outsiders". I was only 16 when I was last in El Paso, so I don't really remember what it was like.
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Old 11-11-2006, 11:51 AM   #23
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Haha, are you serious? How long has it been since you visited Austin? Because they tell me it's the "weirdest" city in all Texas.
In a conservative state, I've heard that Austin is the most diverse in political ideas, religions, fashion statements, race...
The coolest part of what they've told me is that there are bumper stickers that say "Keep Austin Weird"
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Old 11-11-2006, 03:19 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neurosis
*laugh* Now that is quite the opposite in the US. City people do not care, but conservatives in rural areas are very spiteful towards people with dark clothing styles.

--Neurosis
I've lived in country cities/towns all my life. I lived in the Sydney for two weeks and couldn't handle it. The first day I was threatened to have my mouth punched by this obese Barbie doll. I'm led to believe that a lot of city people, who have seen it all, come to where I live to have a 'tree change'.
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Old 11-11-2006, 06:24 PM   #25
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Well, in Vienna, thank goodness, people actually like, or at least feel a certain interest towards gothic way of dress. This even ruins the "bein an outsider" part of gothic identity. Well, at least that is my experience. On the street every sixth person from teenage to late twenties is guarantied dressed in something at least relatively alternative and all the clothing stores support this. It is actually very annoying...there are no distinct styles at all anymore...only a huge sticky mixture of everythinf that eds up expressing nothing excespt for " look, I am young". And those are usually not goths at all.

But, wow, I am way off subject. Anyways, there is hardly any chance of being beaten up for dressing goth here is Vienna (there is more chance of that being a foreigner). There are of course these polo-and-timberlands-wearing rich kids that listen to hip hop and DO have prejudices against all that doesn't look like their distinct dress code which is, actually, much more defined then that of any sub-culture.
And of course, there are people that might fear you...all for the same reasons. Oh well. Have your fun scaring them.

So, in my experience Vienna ( and Moscow as well, actually--but you don't want to move there) is a goth-abuse free zone.
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