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Old 01-11-2009, 08:28 PM   #26
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I have moral objections to pain and cruelty inflicted upon animals - but yes. I eat meat. I am not a vegetarian and I am not a vegan. If I become a vegetarian - it will be because I have started feeling physically sick.

I know about the sort of thing you have posted. I am not going to bother looking at it. That sort of thing makes me sick. It is out of my control.

And for your information - I can cook. An occasionally I do. I am even quite good at cooking - when I do cook I usually make vegetarian dishes but that is mainly because I am fond of certain dishes that involve vegetables. I just don't cook often because I tend to eat out a lot, or when I do com home - there is already food.

Don't attack me. There are plenty of people who eat meat here so piss off.
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Old 01-11-2009, 08:46 PM   #27
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You have moral objections to pain and cruelty inflicted upon animals, but you won't even look at it and don't even want to think about it. And it isn't out of your control, you support businesses that practice factory farming and cruelty with your money. You can't pretend to honestly care about animal welfare if you don't even want to think about these things. Those people who "sacrifice" animals in public and give them to the poor are less hypocritical than those who eat animals that were tortured out of sight, all the while saying "golly, those guys are savages."

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." -Burke
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Old 01-11-2009, 08:59 PM   #28
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You didn't read what I have written properly.

Those people were most probably not going to give the meat to the poor at all. It has become a tradition for so many people there - and not anyone if many do the right thing.

I don't agree that it is wrong to eat meat. I do not own a farm and I do not have anyone who would go and ensure what I eat was killed without cruelty.

I once watched a video about a chicken farm - and I have never eaten from kfc again.

So yes. I do care to a certain extent.

You criticize me for having a moral objection to something - and not wanting to watch the actions...

that is similar to me criticizing you for taking a dump and not wanting to look at what you have done.

what exactly was your point?
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Old 01-11-2009, 09:10 PM   #29
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So they gave it to their neighbours and themselves, whats the difference? How is that any different that what you do?

Oh, you boycotted KFC, how admirable of you and what a sacrifice.

I criticize you for acting high and mighty because you don't eat KFC and you shun people who kill animals in the public eye, should they eat food that came from god knows where and had god knows what done to it, like "civilized" people who really care about animals?

Thats like saying I care about sweat shops, after hearing about Nike boycotting them, but buying from other brands knowing full well that they have sweat shops too. You're robbing Peter to pay Paul.
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Old 01-11-2009, 10:24 PM   #30
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It is different because they sacrifice them with knives. The animal is tied there and they kill it.

Look. I eat meat. I don't eat excessive amounts, and I wish people were not cruel pigs - but I can't change that. And I will not stop eating what little meat I do eat just because people like you think it is murderous. I don't hold your opinion and I don't care about your opinion of what I do or what I eat.

Have a great day.
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Old 01-11-2009, 10:37 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by girasol
It is different because they sacrifice them with knives. The animal is tied there and they kill it.
Thats the most common way to kill an animal, they do this in factories as well. Like a cow, they shoot a bolt in its head that is meant to knock it out, however something like 30% of cows will only be hurt by this and not knocked out, but they do not get another shot. They are then strung up upside down and its throat is slit with a knife, the blood is drained and then the cow is sent down the line to be butchered. There have been many accounts of the cow still being alive at that point when it is sent to be butchered.

Quote:
Look. I eat meat. I don't eat excessive amounts, and I wish people were not cruel pigs - but I can't change that. And I will not stop eating what little meat I do eat just because people like you think it is murderous. I don't hold your opinion and I don't care about your opinion of what I do or what I eat.

Have a great day.
You do hold my opinion if you think what they do is barbaric, your meat more than likely went through the same thing, and worse. You can't change it but as a consumer you support these businesses with your dollars and you do will not even question them so long as you can't see what they are doing. Don't pretend to give a damn about animal rights or welfare, and don't pretend you're better than them.
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Old 01-11-2009, 10:51 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saya


You do hold my opinion if you think what they do is barbaric, your meat more than likely went through the same thing, and worse. You can't change it but as a consumer you support these businesses with your dollars and you do will not even question them so long as you can't see what they are doing. Don't pretend to give a damn about animal rights or welfare, and don't pretend you're better than them.

You are wrong actually. I KNOW that I AM better than them. I do not believe that animals should be sacrificed on the street or in an open car park or on the side of the road in the name of god when only some are doing it to help someone else out.


You do not know me. I do not consume a lot of food in general and I cannot find a way to eat meat that ensures the animal will not endure any pain. So I just don't think about it. I hope what I have eaten and what I will eat did not and will not suffer. But thats it really. Sorry if that offends you.

Like I said. I have begun to feel sick when I eat dishes with meat, if it continues I will decide what I will do about it. Until then I am happy the way I am and I need all the iron I can get.

end of conversation.
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Old 01-11-2009, 10:58 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by girasol
You are wrong actually. I KNOW that I AM better than them. I do not believe that animals should be sacrificed on the street or in an open car park or on the side of the road in the name of god when only some are doing it to help someone else out.
So they should be killed in cramped factory farms out of sight to be sacrificed in the name of "it tastes good"? It should be sacrified to you, because you're too lazy to take an iron supplement?

Quote:
You do not know me. I do not consume a lot of food in general and I cannot find a way to eat meat that ensures the animal will not endure any pain. So I just don't think about it. I hope what I have eaten and what I will eat did not and will not suffer. But thats it really. Sorry if that offends you.

Like I said. I have begun to feel sick when I eat dishes with meat, if it continues I will decide what I will do about it. Until then I am happy the way I am and I need all the iron I can get.

end of conversation.
It doesn't offend me, I just think you're a hypocrite, and lazy. If you don't want to take control of your diet and see to it that it is balanced and you're getting your iron, or even screw that and take supplements, or even research in the killing methods and treatment of the animals you eat, then who are you to say "I care about animals! People who kill animals in public are terrible! I don't eat KFC!"
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Old 01-11-2009, 11:00 PM   #34
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No, no end of conversation.
If you fucking believe her arguments are worth shit for you because she's a vegan, then hear that a meat eater also calls you a hypocrite:

Quote:
I KNOW that I AM better than them. I do not believe that animals should be sacrificed on the street or in an open car park or on the side of the road
Extension:
"The way we SUPERIOR people do it is by locking them in slaughterhouses so that they never see the light of the day or feel the dirt on their feet, and we overfeed them, atrophy their muscles until they can't walk or break their legs altogether (that's the tenderest meat), and then we insert a hook on their talons, lift them up in the air, and cut their stomachs vertically so that they can bleed to death and empty their organs at the same time. All this somewhere I can't see it of course, because I'm a gentleman."
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People who say they don’t care what people think are usually desperate to have people think they don’t care what people think.
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Old 01-11-2009, 11:01 PM   #35
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Quote:
I cannot find a way to eat meat that ensures the animal will not endure any pain. So I just don't think about it.
I am too stupid or too lazy to so something about something I morally disagree, so I'll shut my ears and pretend I live in fucking Candyland.
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Quote:
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People who say they don’t care what people think are usually desperate to have people think they don’t care what people think.
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Old 01-11-2009, 11:03 PM   #36
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Also this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by girasol
You criticize me for having a moral objection to something - and not wanting to watch the actions...

that is similar to me criticizing you for taking a dump and not wanting to look at what you have done.
That's fucking idiotic.
It's not the same!
It would be the same if you CLAIMED YOU HAVE A MORAL OBJECTION WITH PEOPLE TAKING A DUMP.

The funny thing is it's more stupid if your attempt at a simile were in fact true, than when you stupidly failed at making said simile.
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I cleave to no system. I am a true seeker."
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Quote:
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People who say they don’t care what people think are usually desperate to have people think they don’t care what people think.
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Old 01-12-2009, 12:16 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saya
So they should be killed in cramped factory farms out of sight to be sacrificed in the name of "it tastes good"? It should be sacrified to you, because you're too lazy to take an iron supplement?



It doesn't offend me, I just think you're a hypocrite, and lazy. If you don't want to take control of your diet and see to it that it is balanced and you're getting your iron, or even screw that and take supplements, or even research in the killing methods and treatment of the animals you eat, then who are you to say "I care about animals! People who kill animals in public are terrible! I don't eat KFC!"

I am not perfect.
I am vain.
Sometimes I am lazy.
I like to think I am right most of the time
but this is none of your business.

cheers.
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Old 01-12-2009, 12:19 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by girasol
I am not perfect.
I am vain.
Sometimes I am lazy.
I like to think I am right most of the time
but this is none of your business.

cheers.
This is a forum, you posted it, I get to respond. You can't make a long post in a public forum and then say "its none of your business." If you don't want to talk about something, keep it to yourself.
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Old 01-12-2009, 12:25 AM   #39
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Godslayer Jilaian, Saya,

I am not a vegetarian. I like a variety of dishes. Some include meat.
I am not saying that what I do is totally moral or justified.

I am better than some, and I am much worse than some. I am aware of this and I will live with this.

If I made a failed attempt at whatever... big fucking deal.
Call me whatever you will - insulting me or being pushy to get your point across doesn't really affect me. I come here because I am bored - I don't criticize a lot of people for what they do - because I don't care very much at all. I believe we are all fucked.
Why do you think I am stuck behind this computer arguing with you...
I know a lot of people, I have better things I could do...
I am dissatisfied.

I just ate chinese for instance. I thought about our conversation. And I just wondered... do you have any meat eating friends?
Do you blame them and argue with them as passionately and insult them?

Pretty soon I probably will become a vegetarian because I feel ill - but I will never be pushy with anyone - letting people know they have different options and that finding just as tasty supplements isn't all that hard is one thing but you spend your time being nasty and arrogant...
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Old 01-12-2009, 12:26 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saya
This is a forum, you posted it, I get to respond. You can't make a long post in a public forum and then say "its none of your business." If you don't want to talk about something, keep it to yourself.

I can do whatever the fuck I want thank you very much
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Old 01-12-2009, 12:35 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by girasol
Godslayer Jilaian, Saya,

I am not a vegetarian. I like a variety of dishes. Some include meat.
I am not saying that what I do is totally moral or justified.

I am better than some, and I am much worse than some. I am aware of this and I will live with this.

If I made a failed attempt at whatever... big fucking deal.
Call me whatever you will - insulting me or being pushy to get your point across doesn't really affect me. I come here because I am bored - I don't criticize a lot of people for what they do - because I don't care very much at all. I believe we are all fucked.
Why do you think I am stuck behind this computer arguing with you...
I know a lot of people, I have better things I could do...
I am dissatisfied.

I just ate chinese for instance. I thought about our conversation. And I just wondered... do you have any meat eating friends?
Do you blame them and argue with them as passionately and insult them?

Pretty soon I probably will become a vegetarian because I feel ill - but I will never be pushy with anyone - letting people know they have different options and that finding just as tasty supplements isn't all that hard is one thing but you spend your time being nasty and arrogant...
All my friends are omnivores, and Jillian is an omnivore too. Its stupidity, dishonesty and hypocrisy that I find unforgivable, and if anyone of any diet says something utterly stupid I will call them on it.

This is a forum, we come here to discuss things. If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen. We won't miss you.

Quote:
I can do whatever the fuck I want thank you very much
So can we.
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Old 01-12-2009, 12:36 AM   #42
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You are really fucking stupid.

"I am better than some, and I am much worse than some. "
Then don't fucking say you KNOW you're better than those you're not. You're a stupid hypocrite.

But of course, you'll just counter it with "I can do whatever the fuck I want"
Nevermind you told Saya to shut it with your absolutist outburst of "end of conversation" as if your saying it meant shit.
It seems openness of conversation is only available when it's about you.

God, you such an egotistic hypocrite. You won't be forgiven this amount of stupidity.
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I cleave to no system. I am a true seeker."
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Quote:
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People who say they don’t care what people think are usually desperate to have people think they don’t care what people think.
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Old 01-12-2009, 12:37 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saya
All my friends are omnivores, and Jillian is an omnivore too. Its stupidity, dishonesty and hypocrisy that I find unforgivable, and if anyone of any diet says something utterly stupid I will call them on it.

This is a forum, we come here to discuss things. If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen. We won't miss you.



So can we.

cool.


I am not particularly bugged by anything you have said to me



I wonder what you would have preferred for me to have said about my eating habits - what wouldn't you have found hypocritical about me eating meat?

Just tell me. I'll consider it education.

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Old 01-12-2009, 12:42 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by girasol
what wouldn't you have found hypocritical about me eating meat?
Just tell me. I'll consider it education.
If you hadn't felt so fucking morally superior for the killing of an animal in much more humane ways that your food in your table ever is, just because it's in front of your eyes.
"What? They respect the animal they eat so much that they acknowledge it? SAVEGES!"

Saya has constantly pointed this out to you.


IDIOT - Can't see Saya's point
HYPOCRITE - Constant pick and choosing of absolutist ethics
EGOTIST - Ethical value only to that which is unpleasing to her eye; fuck whatever happens behind her back
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I cleave to no system. I am a true seeker."
-Mikhail Bakunin

Quote:
Originally Posted by George Carlin
People who say they don’t care what people think are usually desperate to have people think they don’t care what people think.
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Old 01-12-2009, 12:43 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian
You are really fucking stupid.

"I am better than some, and I am much worse than some. "
Then don't fucking say you KNOW you're better than those you're not. You're a stupid hypocrite.

But of course, you'll just counter it with "I can do whatever the fuck I want"
Nevermind you told Saya to shut it with your absolutist outburst of "end of conversation" as if your saying it meant shit.
It seems openness of conversation is only available when it's about you.

God, you such an egotistic hypocrite. You won't be forgiven this amount of stupidity.

You cross me as egotistic as well. I don't think its a horrible quality so don't take it as an insult.

I am stupid for arguing this long.

The whole reason behind why I consider myself better than the people who sacrifice those animals out there in their religious holiday is because -

a. many of them take their children out there to watch.

b. it is meant as a sacrifice to god and n act of kindness - give to the poor... but they do not. most anyway.

c. it is now illegal to do it out in the open on the streets and yet many still do it even on the side of a highway.

d. I do not think their god would appreciate them sacrificing these animals today (this is opinion. I could be wrong. How could I know? I do not believe in islam and I have friends who are and I wouldn't say this openly to them.)
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Old 01-12-2009, 12:49 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian
If you hadn't felt so fucking morally superior for the killing of an animal in much more humane ways that your food in your table ever is, just because it's in front of your eyes.
"What? They respect the animal they eat so much that they acknowledge it? SAVEGES!"

Saya has constantly pointed this out to you.


IDIOT - Can't see Saya's point
HYPOCRITE - Constant pick and choosing of absolutist ethics
EGOTIST - Ethical value only to that which is unpleasing to her eye; fuck whatever happens behind her back

Hey. I never ever said they were savages. I just am glad that I do not take a part of what they do and don't understand how they can't see that sacrificing an animal as part of their tradition - just to give it to their neighbor is...wrong.

I do sometimes think about how I do quite a lot of horrible things.
I feel guilty when if I can't find a bin or ashtray I grind my cigarette into the dirt.
I do things, I think about them. I feel guilty for a bit. But after that I let it go because it is useless.

You said if I could not take the heat - leave. Or saya did. I will check in a second...

but what heat?

I think you are both very bored, have seen a flaw in my thought or whatever I had written and are trying to prove how much better you are by stepping on me.

I am also bored. I have just eaten. Have just had a beer. Very relaxed. I'll think about what we have talked about.
And I don't care if you dislike me or think I am stupid. Because you are probably just like me in some way or another.

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Old 01-12-2009, 12:50 AM   #47
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Btw.

My issue is not with Turkish people in any way. I love their culture. I just can't handle Ramazan.
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Old 01-12-2009, 01:01 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by girasol
You cross me as egotistic as well. I don't think its a horrible quality so don't take it as an insult.

I am stupid for arguing this long.

The whole reason behind why I consider myself better than the people who sacrifice those animals out there in their religious holiday is because -

a. many of them take their children out there to watch.

b. it is meant as a sacrifice to god and n act of kindness - give to the poor... but they do not. most anyway.

c. it is now illegal to do it out in the open on the streets and yet many still do it even on the side of a highway.

d. I do not think their god would appreciate them sacrificing these animals today (this is opinion. I could be wrong. How could I know? I do not believe in islam and I have friends who are and I wouldn't say this openly to them.)
a. So they can bear the sight, more than you can. They are aware of where their food comes from, they don't ignore it. As odd as that sounds, if the public is watching butchery tends to be more humane.

b and d: The Koran does say that the sacrifice does not reach God. He doesn't want it, and he won't get mad if you stop. What the Hadith says about it however I'm not sure. Actually there are a lot of quotes in the Koran that would support vegetarianism, and a lot of Sufi Muslims in particular are vegetarian. As to why they do it? Tradition. And once again, better they do it in public than in private.

c: A lot of what goes on in slaughterhouses is technically illegal, but regulations aren't strictly reinforced.

Quote:
but what heat?

I think you are both very bored, have seen a flaw in my thought or whatever I had written and are trying to prove how much better you are by stepping on me.

I am also bored. I have just eaten. Have just had a beer. Very relaxed. I'll think about what we have talked about.
And I don't care if you dislike me or think I am stupid. Because you are probably just like me in some way or another.
You're complaining that we're "stepping on you". We're debating with you, and you're complaining. Thats the heat, the flaming, our argument. If you don't like it then don't stick around, its the best and most popular part of Gnet.

I really dont care if you're bored or if you just ate or if you're wearing purple, I'm only responding to whats in front of me. You do know what a forum is for, right?

EDIT: And anyway, seeing as the animals they sacrifice are still being eaten and not being left to rot on an altar, there is no difference. They just have a lot of ritual attached to it.
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Old 01-12-2009, 01:08 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saya
a. So they can bear the sight, more than you can. They are aware of where their food comes from, they don't ignore it. As odd as that sounds, if the public is watching butchery tends to be more humane.

b and d: The Koran does say that the sacrifice does not reach God. He doesn't want it, and he won't get mad if you stop. What the Hadith says about it however I'm not sure. Actually there are a lot of quotes in the Koran that would support vegetarianism, and a lot of Sufi Muslims in particular are vegetarian. As to why they do it? Tradition. And once again, better they do it in public than in private.

c: A lot of what goes on in slaughterhouses is technically illegal, but regulations aren't strictly reinforced.



You're complaining that we're "stepping on you". We're debating with you, and you're complaining. Thats the heat, the flaming, our argument. If you don't like it then don't stick around, its the best and most popular part of Gnet.

I really dont care if you're bored or if you just ate or if you're wearing purple, I'm only responding to whats in front of me. You do know what a forum is for, right?

EDIT: And anyway, seeing as the animals they sacrifice are still being eaten and not being left to rot on an altar, there is no difference. They just have a lot of ritual attached to it.

Thanks for not insulting me this time.
I can see your point - I still don't think small children should be able to watch animals being killed in front of them with something like a knife but like most of my answers to most things. - nothing I can do about it.
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Old 01-12-2009, 01:32 AM   #50
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You remind me of Homer Simpson and his tomacco.

Lisa - "This is a terrible monstrosity, destroy it already!"
Homer - "I know, Lisa, but I'm just a man, what can I do?"
Lisa - "Get rid of the plant and stop the insanity"
Homer - "I wish I could, Lisa. But I'm just a man"

Nothing you can do about it? It's not your fault that you contribute to the system you claim is awful?
I'll remember that for the future. I'm sure if we gang up on someone and beat the shit out of him, people will understand if I say I really thought it was awful but my stopping beating him wouldn't change anything.
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I cleave to no system. I am a true seeker."
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Quote:
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People who say they don’t care what people think are usually desperate to have people think they don’t care what people think.
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