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Old 05-03-2012, 08:31 AM   #126
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Also, to amend the may day joke part. There was at least 30,000 people there. Impressive.

But there's a problem. In Tehran there was 500,000. So there's a communication problem. However, at the same time, we're at 8% unemployment in this country. So the question remains. What DOES the popular consensus want? Anything? And if it was just 30,000, what would the numbers have been like if the Saya and Versus camp actually felt like they could be a part of it?
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Old 05-03-2012, 08:32 AM   #127
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I can get you a 7 day trial if you want to mess with it.
No thanks, man. It's cool.
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Old 05-03-2012, 08:35 AM   #128
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Merp I totally didn't notice Versus post at the same time I did. I died a little myself seeing those and every article like them.
I also have a lot of hope that some positive things will be accomplished by Occupy, I just think that it has so much attention, so much support, and so much momentum that it could make huge, sweeping improvements that would make a truly meaningful change in countless lives, not just from a legal perspective but social and cultural changes, and I don't see that potential being realized.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo_effect
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Old 05-03-2012, 08:35 AM   #129
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What DOES the popular consensus want?
That is a really good question.
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Old 05-03-2012, 08:40 AM   #130
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Do you not understand what I said or do you not understand the halo effect? Or are you agreeing with me? Because those social changes that I was talking about would be due to the halo effect, much the way that it works with non-profits and such as they move away from their initial goals and become more of a source for general good.
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Last edited by Solumina; 05-03-2012 at 08:44 AM. Reason: I may have read more into your post than I should have so I added another option
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Old 05-03-2012, 08:57 AM   #131
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http://oaklandoccupypatriarchy.wordpress.com/

May I ask what's up with these guys? I wouldn't know and don't care to use them as ammunition to prove anything. I just want to know if they're legit.
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Old 05-03-2012, 09:29 AM   #132
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No worries. I take so long because I can't read so good and am a little slow, so I appreciate your patience.

For ease of understanding, I want to differentiate occupant, OWS, and Occupy as terms that mean different things so there is less confusion in this thread.

Occupy: The global movement as a whole.

General Assemblies: Individual camps within the Occupy movement, such as OWS or Occupy Oakland.

OWS: A part of the Occupy movement based in NYC. I can't make the judgement if it is interchangeable with the NYC general assembly.

Occupant: A member of the global movement. A distinction should be made to associate them with any subdivision thereof, such as "Occupant of OWS."
The term is Occupier. But otherwise, this is good.

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This is a good point that I already brought up earlier, but you got distracted about the word "concensus." I was trying to say that when occupants of GAs do not adhere to the principals of the GA or it's mission statement or general intent, The GA IS responsible for it as the parent movement which the occupants belong. I'm am not implying that the existence of a hierarchy should be considered to control the occupants actions, but it DOES illiminate the need for accountability in some form or another, such as DIALOGUE within the GA to better communicate it's intent and address the actions of its occupants. That doesn't change if you look at Occupy as a whole. There should be accountability of Occupy Norfolk, and a dialogue should be created to express the concerns that GAs have within one another because ANYTHING less is ignoring a problem within the movement.
Well I agree with this, though "Should" is a dangerous word. It's one thing to say their "Should" be accountability that doesn't create hierarchy it's another thing to actually practice this.

How percisely is the NYCGA supposed to bring the Norfolk GA in line so that Solumina gets to speak more often without Jake helping her out? Occupy Norfolk is accountable to the Occupy Norfolk GA.

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And this is why there isn't representation or progress within the movement as a whole, or at the very least, why it is percieved that way. "We have nothing to do with them" is the same as "I have nothing to do with him." You don't see a problem with this? Again, it's not the responsibility of would-be supporters to ignore the problems within the movement as it does of itself, it is the responsibility of the movement to change itself in a meaningful way to foster a environment that occupants can contribute.
Once again, I agree in theory, in practice this is harder.

Let's say that the NYCGA takes "responsibility" for the actions of 3 occupiers at the Danny Cheng martch and issues an apology. Well guess what? Now the republicans, the democrats and the NYPD have just been handed a MAJOR weapon. All they have to do is just start sending out plainclothes police officers and/or right-wing activists to other left wing marches, and have them identify themselves as occupiers, after all, who is the GA to say that they aren't?

Then they tear shit up, act like Jackasses, and suddenly the NYCGA is responsible for their actions. Every single time they do this the NYCGA will have to apologize, for actions that it has nothing to do with, but folks like you and Saya will just see a string of apologies and say to yourselves "Wow, Occupy is REALLY racist. I'll never get involved in that movement" and the whole thing will NEVER have the chance to grow.

Occupy COULD decide to start keeping a very strict record of it's members, and declaring official "occupations" and forcing new occupations to apply for a charter with the NYCGA...but once again, in doing so, we've just abandoned the core of what Occupy is about. The whole point is to get autonomous groups of folks to get up off the couch and become active in their own communities. The whole point is to get as many people as possible to be the change that they want to see.

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Again, you are camps within the same movement. If you don't agree with another GA, it's the others' place to bring it up, JUST LIKE it's the responsibility of occupants of OWS to create dialogue about their concerns within OWS's GA. Isn't that how it works?
I would actually say that the GA isn't the place to do this. It might happen if something REALLY serious happened (like for instance if a GA was taken over by Neo-Nazis or something) but overall, communication like that would (and does) take place in places like http://interoccupy.org/ and that website just launched.

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What's wrong when you separate these two statements?
You tell me.
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At this point, from what you have shown me, I can't deny that OWS is on its way, overall. It's nowhere it needs to be, not by a fucking long shot, but I feel that the fundamental process as I understand it is really great. I have major, major criticisms of it, and some things really disgust me, such as the articles you posted about individual response to million hoodie and Danny Cheng as well as that there wasn't dialogue within the GA (especially if it's the reason you suspect), but I am excited that something is being spoken about, even if it's really small right now. I want it to become larger, and I want people to talk about things that they are uncomfortable with. I want more disgusting articles because it creates the opportunity for it to be corrected, and maybe even understood.
You know, I brought your concerns to a friend of mine who's really big in Occupy, and also happens to be a person of color.

He had this to say: "Yes, there are big problems with folks not understanding privilege, it's probably the biggest internal problem in the movement, but Occupy is still one of the biggest, best forces for change I have ever seen in my entire life. The reason is, that when you say: "Hey, you guys have a serious problem because you don't understand this" They say "Then come and teach us." They say that every single time, and they make good on it."


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I am also really pessimistic. That fundamental process, as I understand it, is largely absent from the movement as a whole and how it interacts with itself, and that absence trickles down to places like Occupy Norfolk. Where ever the fuck that is. I think that you are taking what you see in OWS and painting the rest of the movement like it.
1) You were trained to be pessimistic. So was I. We both need to work to overcome it.

2) Why do you understand that this is absent from the movement? You haven't been to the GAs, you only have Saya's and Solumina's word to go on. Neither have been particularly involved in the movement. Granted this is because they apparently got disrespected by a few people when they did come out (Which sucks) but neither is really educated enough about the movement to say that for instance, Occupy Denver doesn't follow process.

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New question: Why would Occupy, as a global movement, be making any progress if what you think is helping OWS is not present in other GAs?
I've been to the Occupy DC GA, I've heard good things out of other GAs. It's not that these things aren't present (necessarily), it's that this is a PROCESS. We are changing a culture of people which have been entrenched in racism, sexism, classism and consumerism. People who have been indoctrinated since birth to believe that racism is only overt hate for other races. People who have been indoctrinated to believe that capitalism is a totalitarian solution.

It's unreasonable to demand that everyone completely change overnight, and it's unreasonable to refuse to work with someone who's well-meaning but still clueless.

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TL;DR Please fix your shit for me.
I'm trying my best but I can't do it without you.
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Old 05-03-2012, 09:33 AM   #133
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http://oaklandoccupypatriarchy.wordpress.com/

May I ask what's up with these guys? I wouldn't know and don't care to use them as ammunition to prove anything. I just want to know if they're legit.
Shh, they're TOKENS. Don't bring them up or pay too much attention to them.
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Old 05-03-2012, 09:46 AM   #134
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Why would we go occupy Occupy? Wouldn't you dismiss that as divisive?
No. What you're doing NOW, refusing to get involved and disseminating incorrect information, that gives a skewed perspective of what the movement is about, while arguing from a position of ignorance.

THAT is divisive. Getting involved and working for change within your part of the movement and your own community as a whole is what OWS is all about.

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The "waves" of feminism idea only works if you think its the mainstream white feminist movement that counts. The Audre Lordes and the bell hooks of the world kept on fighting when the Betty Friedans of the world felt comfortable, felt the battle was done, and even felt feminism went too far because women cut their hair short and own computers. It is through no fault of the Audre Lordes that the Betty Friedans were selfish assholes.
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Also, regards the "Now they finally are." No, its not finally. They've pretended too lots of times before. I don't know if you know this but activist movements, even large ones! Have existed before.
I'll tell you what, I'll make sure all the men at OWS sign a form that says they aren't lying about wanting to change the world.

Now Please stop being so condescending. It's unbecoming and rude.
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Old 05-03-2012, 09:48 AM   #135
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Tokens of what? It says in the opening statement that one of the reasons they exist is because they need a space within the community to feel safe. Which implies that there wasn't one previously. Including Occupy Oakland.

But I could be misinterpreting or seeing what I want to see.. Stern says that I do that.
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Old 05-03-2012, 10:27 AM   #136
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On a more serious note how exactly is that dismissive, I'm explaining how I'm perceiving your behavior in a pretty direct way. You have taken pages and pages to finally say this:Up to this point you have been speaking as though it is only a few bad apples fucking shit up
No I haven't, I'm saying the problem isn't as bad as you think it is. Just because YOU got talked over at Occupy Norfolk, and Saya got talked over at Occupy Newfoundland doesn't mean that the global idea of Occupy is helplessly racist and sexist, nor does it mean that the racism and sexism that Occupy is dealing with is a product OF Occupy. It's NOT it's a product of the culture that Occupy is trying to change and you are attacking folks who are trying to do something about it because it's not perfect. That's WRONG.

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when clearly it isn't, and even this statement does not go nearly far enough. It is not just about people not recognizing their privilege but it is also about open and overt discrimination. Also please tell me exactly what steps have been taken to actively deal with this, not passive stuff so that people will hopefully understand that it is wrong, I want to be safe and I want to be respected so I want measures in place so that something is done if someone disrespects me or makes me unsafe.
You aren't reading my posts. We have Safer Spaces, we have de-escalation, we have facilitators who are trained to deal with this stuff. What else do you want? You want me to personally beat up the next guy who talks over you at Occupy Norfolk?

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Really, they may just be doing it wrong? That is such a fucking cop out
I don't know about occupy Norfolk. I am not involved with Occupy Norfolk. I can't comment on their processes. I'm acknowledging that their may be something to your criticism but all I have to go on is your word based upon your limited experience. Until you bring more to the table than "People talked over me but not Jake two times" I can't say more than this.

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Do you really think that Occupy is the only political movement with a lateral culture? It isn't and you need to stop using that as an excuse, the LGBT community here actually switched away from their hierarchy to a lateral community as a way to combat the internal problems that it was having such as discrimination against its trans and bi members, and it pretty much put a stop to those issues as it put everyone on an equal playing field.
Please provide evidence for this, because I would LOVE to learn about Queer anarchism, I wasn't aware it existed.

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My experience with Occupy is not an equal playing field but majority rules and a herd mentality where people who do feel that something is wrong feel pressured into not placing constraints on fellow occupiers so this shit goes pretty damn unchecked.
The Norfolk GA does not operate by consensus?

Also: Stop applying this critique to "Occupy" Occupy Norfolk is clearly different from Occupy Wall Street.

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Funny you should say that, everyone seems to make that remark but the rednecks listened, the liberal arts majors didn't.
Wait. I though no one listened. Now you're saying that some folks did listen? What were you even trying to say and how were you trying to say it?

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Occupy isn't the only game in town and I would much rather spend my time working with other groups and getting shit done than sink loads of time and energy trying to get Occupiers to listen to my concerns.
Sure. By all means. Give up on the revolution and go volunteer at Moveon.org to get Obama re-elected. I'm sure that will bring change. I mean, he SAID it would bring change.

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What exactly is being taught and who is being taught? Are these things that are reaching every person or are they more or less preaching to the choir?
How are they trained and how exactly do they deal with it?
See #1, also are they lecturing about discrimination in general or about specific incidents?
Look, you're on the internet, there is a TON of Occupy stuff on here, just look up the livestreams yourself. You very clearly already have your mind made up, about the lack of merit in a global movement for social justice because some liberal arts students got mad at you.

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They are mostly writing about how despite a few unpleasant events Occupy is really totally inclusive, at best they admit that there is a problem with people not recognizing their own privilege.
Occupy IS extremely inclusive. I've been telling you that this whole time. I've been bringing link after link of evidence and you refuse to consider it. You refuse to consider testimony that doesn't 100% mirror your own view that Occupy is something women and people of color should not be involved in.

Stop it. It's frustrating.

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Fuck that no they haven't besides how the media portrays something or what they choose to investigate can't be claimed as something that Occupy has done.
It can certainly be claimed that occupy is aware of these things 100 times over.

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Spell out for me precisely how your process addresses the problem because from what I see it only gives the illusion of addressing it.
Watch the video I linked earlier on consensus.

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You may see a lot of "exactly"s and such, because I want specifics, you keep talking in fairly general terms, which is great for a press release but in this situation speaking in general terms is less than helpful. If you want me to feel like Occupy takes our concerns seriously I want to fully know and understand what is being done about them. Also if I know what, specifically, is being done and I don't feel that it is enough then I can make suggestions and point out exactly how and why I think more needs to be done
Because I'm not so naive that I think assurances of things being done means that they are actually being done, and if they are that they will be the least bit effective.
You're going to have to help me out here. I've shown you the video, I've shown you the pictures, I've shown you the transcripts from our meetings, I've shown you articles written by occupiers ON how they dealt with White Privilege, I've shown how we've re-written our FOUNDING DOCUMENTS because of these concerns, I've shown you how we have made effort after effort to be inclusive. I've shown you when minority groups come out their voices are heeded and even written into actual policy. I've show you how we've worked hand in hand with minority activists. I've shown you how we've altered our plans for mayday because of the concerns of immigrants. I've shown you how we've altered our language, how we've embraced the idea of decolonization, how we've taken up causes that do not effect white men, put money behind them, and been arrested because of them. I have shown you the working groups which have been created to deal with these problems.

Please tell me plainly what you need to see, in order to believe that Occupy is worthy. What is your burden of proof here? Saya wouldn't answert me, and Versus admitted that there was nothing I could do or say to prove otherwise, so what exactly am I supposed to do?

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Desp you as an individual have continually been dismissive of our concerns, blamed us for the problems we have faced, and have made excuses for Occupy and you are someone I know to be compassionate, intelligent, and an all around great guy so if you are still acting this way how the hell can I be expected to think that Occupy will welcome me?
IHaveNotAndITakeOffenseToThis. You, Solomina are making unreasonable demands on me, Ignoring the information that I have brought, and reading things into my posts which are not there. I have said multiple times that I am not denying your facts. I have never denied that there is a problem, I have just provided perspective and information on how the movement functions and what it's doing.

You and Saya have dismissed everything I have brought. You haven't even considered the fact that you might be wrong, nor has either of you admitted that you have limited direct knowledge as to what goes on at Occupy.

Just because I'm not throwing the biggest movement for social justice in forty years under a bus does not mean that I am dismissing your concerns.
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Old 05-03-2012, 10:36 AM   #137
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Tokens of what? It says in the opening statement that one of the reasons they exist is because they need a space within the community to feel safe. Which implies that there wasn't one previously. Including Occupy Oakland.

But I could be misinterpreting or seeing what I want to see.. Stern says that I do that.
You're ignoring the very next bit where it says these problems are structural and systemic, and the bit before it where they say that capitalist society is based on racist, white supremacist, patriarchal order.

It's like this:

1) Capitalism is Deadman

2) I argue against deadman, but I am also a white man and argue in a way that a white man would argue

3) Saya comes in and makes arguments against Deadman that a woman would make, and also points out that the way I'm arguing against Deadman sometimes makes her feel marginalized, and maybe I shouldn't call Deadman a "pussy".

4) You come in and see that part of Saya's post and decide I'm a son of a bitch because Saya made a legitimate complaint, and you abstain from telling Deadman what a fat pile of fail he is because you don't want to be associated with Despanan.

Got it?
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Old 05-03-2012, 11:08 AM   #138
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I'll get back to this, I'm allowing myself to get frustrated and that doesn't lead to helpful discussions. I will keep reading what everyone has to say but I'm going to take a step back until at least tonight, though most likely it will wait until tomorrow. I just wanted you to know that I'm not leaving the conversation, I think it is an important one to have but that at this point impassioned words may lead to harm and further division, which is not something that I want.
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Old 05-03-2012, 11:20 AM   #139
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I'll get back to this, I'm allowing myself to get frustrated and that doesn't lead to helpful discussions. I will keep reading what everyone has to say but I'm going to take a step back until at least tonight, though most likely it will wait until tomorrow. I just wanted you to know that I'm not leaving the conversation, I think it is an important one to have but that at this point impassioned words may lead to harm and further division, which is not something that I want.
Thanks, this is an important discussion and I appreciate you helping to move it in a constructive direction.

I will agree that I have been impassioned as well. I had to back off from a post actually.

For now I'll just say I'm hearing your complaints, and I think they are valid.
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Old 05-03-2012, 11:23 AM   #140
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Thanks, I appreciate it.
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Old 05-03-2012, 11:28 AM   #141
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No. What you're doing NOW, refusing to get involved and disseminating incorrect information, that gives a skewed perspective of what the movement is about, while arguing from a position of ignorance.

THAT is divisive. Getting involved and working for change within your part of the movement and your own community as a whole is what OWS is all about.

I AM ALREADY INVOLVED IN MY COMMUNITY. There's far more of us than there is of Occupy here. We don't need privileged little fucks to get our work done, you dig?

Do you really think chanting "I am Trayvon Martin" proves that you're so fucking inclusive it hurts? It erases your privilege, and the whole fucking point is that you're NOT Trayvon Martin. You have no fucking clue what its like to be at the bottom of the hierarchy in society, and you never will because of your skin colour and your sense of entitlement to your privilege.

You're the kind of cat who was looking away when people were being rraped and murdered all your life, and in the last few months you've suddenly wiped away all the privilege from your eyes and everything is clear now? You're not even willing to shut the fuck up and listen, you have to excuse everything away, the system will not allow racism or sexism or any kind of oppression, just like everyone else says the US can't be a racist state because the laws don't allow it and we have women and black politicians who won't allow it. They strut those politicians out as proof that they're not racist, just as you strut the few minorities willing to tolerate OWS out as proof that the movement can't be racist. Its the same shit in a different pile.

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I'll tell you what, I'll make sure all the men at OWS sign a form that says they aren't lying about wanting to change the world.

Now Please stop being so condescending. It's unbecoming and rude.
Oh right, I got my lady reputation to protect.
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Old 05-03-2012, 11:35 AM   #142
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Saya, I am getting the distinct impression that the way you're feeling right now goes well beyond simply myself and Occupy.
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Old 05-03-2012, 12:06 PM   #143
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Because its a manifestation of a problem much bigger than you or me. There's nothing inherently revolutionary or radical in Occupy. The one here has established itself as reformist, capitalism isn't inherently evil and they incorporated to show that corporates don't have to be evil and they'll set a good example. OWS is overwhelmingly male and white in a city where white men are a minority, and chants how they are Trayvon Martin as if they know what its like to be the victim of racism, and if you're not with them, you're with the counter-revolution. Activists who have been around for ages doing the same god damn work and more suddenly don't matter and are part of the problem if they don't want to be with Occupy. Meanwhile you march and sit in and hope that socialism will be given if you just reform enough laws and have enough politicians speak to the group. You listen to a woman or a person of colour now and then to pat yourself on the back for being inclusive, but attack anyone who says you aren't inclusive enough. You're so in love with yourselves you couldn't give two shits.
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Old 05-03-2012, 01:04 PM   #144
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Because its a manifestation of a problem much bigger than you or me. There's nothing inherently revolutionary or radical in Occupy.
Occupy Wall Street in NYC is largely Red Anarchist. You're judging the whole movement on Occupy Newfoundland.

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The one here has established itself as reformist, capitalism isn't inherently evil and they incorporated to show that corporates don't have to be evil and they'll set a good example.
That is wrongheaded. Maybe if some more experienced activists had become part of the discussion that wouldn't have happened?

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OWS is overwhelmingly male and white in a city where white men are a minority, and chants how they are Trayvon Martin as if they know what its like to be the victim of racism, and if you're not with them, you're with the counter-revolution.
You are twisting what I've said to fit your narrative.

1) I am Trayvonn Martin was the MILLION HOODIES CHANT. It was not OWS's Chant. OWS was chanting it in solidarity with the rest of the crowd.

What are we supposed to chant? Elon James White objected to "We are the 99%", now you're objecting to "I am Trayvonn Martin" maybe all the white men involved with Occupy should just shut the fuck up and go home?

Because seriously, that seems to be what you're saying here.

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Activists who have been around for ages doing the same god damn work and more suddenly don't matter and are part of the problem if they don't want to be with Occupy. Meanwhile you march and sit in and hope that socialism will be given if you just reform enough laws and have enough politicians speak to the group. You listen to a woman or a person of colour now and then to pat yourself on the back for being inclusive, but attack anyone who says you aren't inclusive enough. You're so in love with yourselves you couldn't give two shits.
Saya, remember when you told me I was reacting out of white guilt? I took a look inside and realized you were right. I want you to do the same thing now.

I want you to consider that you're acting very possessively towards activism. You don't own social justice, you don't own activism and Occupy can't take either away from you.

I want you to consider that regardless of whether or not it's fair, Occupy has caused the issues YOU'VE been fighting for your whole life to gain some new traction, and some international attention. The next few years are going to be crucial and which groups of activists who get involved with occupy could very well mean the difference between it being a reform movement and a movement for radical change.

Occupy Wall Street isn't asking for socialism to be granted. We aren't supporting Obama. We're engaging in direct action against targets like Bank of America in an attempt to make them go insolvent. Occupy Seattle caused the city to declare a state of Emergency Oakland is nearly a warzone



the protestors attacked banks and businesses and The OPD deployed a goddamn tank they bought from Blackwater against them. Occupy San Francisco took over private property in order to turn it into a community center Occupy Wall Street brought out 30,000 activists we were lead down the street by fucking taxi drivers:



But no, this isn't a real movement, we just want reform. That's why my friends are getting their heads split by NYPD batons. That's why female members of occupy are being sexually assulted by the NYPD that's why we're putting up with rain, snow, freezing conditions, and police brutality because we're just sitting in a park and asking for socialism. <--Check out around 1:13 btw, You can actually see the NYPD reach down and pull up a female protester's skirt while they arrest them.

I would like you to consider, Saya, that perhaps Newfoundland is privileged enough, that it can incorporate and ask for reform and a little more socialism than Canada already has. Things are very different here in the states.

I would like you to consider that perhaps I was NOT saying that occupy couldn't be criticized, but that YOUR criticisms were not entirely correct. That you lacked information about Occupy, and that this information should be taken into account whenever one talks about the movement as a whole.

I would like you to look through this album of mayday actions around the world, and tell me precisely WHY all of these people are wrong and/or, just want reforms:

http://imgur.com/a/kr1Ug#0
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Old 05-03-2012, 01:06 PM   #145
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Saya, I am getting the distinct impression that the way you're feeling right now goes well beyond simply myself and Occupy.
Okay I'm still holding off on responding to your previous few posts but are you fucking kidding me? No shit it goes beyond yourself and Occupy, I cannot process the fact that you could have ever thought differently.
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Old 05-03-2012, 01:11 PM   #146
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Nope. Nothin' but reform and Ron Paul:



No serious committed activism here. Move along.
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Old 05-03-2012, 02:19 PM   #147
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You're ignoring the very next bit where it says these problems are structural and systemic, and the bit before it where they say that capitalist society is based on racist, white supremacist, patriarchal order.

It's like this:

1) Capitalism is Deadman

2) I argue against deadman, but I am also a white man and argue in a way that a white man would argue

3) Saya comes in and makes arguments against Deadman that a woman would make, and also points out that the way I'm arguing against Deadman sometimes makes her feel marginalized, and maybe I shouldn't call Deadman a "pussy".

4) You come in and see that part of Saya's post and decide I'm a son of a bitch because Saya made a legitimate complaint, and you abstain from telling Deadman what a fat pile of fail he is because you don't want to be associated with Despanan.

Got it?
No, I don't understand.
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Old 05-03-2012, 02:41 PM   #148
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Ron Paul!!!! 2012!!! SOCIALISM! WHOO!!!!
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Old 05-03-2012, 04:02 PM   #149
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Occupy Wall Street in NYC is largely Red Anarchist. You're judging the whole movement on Occupy Newfoundland.



That is wrongheaded. Maybe if some more experienced activists had become part of the discussion that wouldn't have happened?
Why the fuck should I take time out of my goddamn day to educate thirty odd white make pricks on how they're pricks? OWS POC can't get thousands of white pricks to listen.

You are twisting what I've said to fit your narrative.
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1) I am Trayvonn Martin was the MILLION HOODIES CHANT. It was not OWS's Chant. OWS was chanting it in solidarity with the rest of the crowd.

What are we supposed to chant? Elon James White objected to "We are the 99%", now you're objecting to "I am Trayvonn Martin" maybe all the white men involved with Occupy should just shut the fuck up and go home?

Because seriously, that seems to be what you're saying here.
You know, there's other things that you can chant. A lot of people suggested POC be the ones to chant "We are Trayvon Martin" and everyone else echo with "Justice for Trayvon." That would have made a hella more sense than have white boys act like they know what its like.

Aso for the rest, seriously, you think I'm just mad that there's another movement?

Jesus Christ on a stick, are you that fucked in the head? Me and Solumina REALLY wanted to be part of the movement, but the movement isn't for chicks. I have a friend that was all for it in the beginning, and she made a few friends, but mostly all she got from it was a stalker who's still there. I have an AMERICAN, btw, not a privileged Canadian (seriously? We're all dying of poverty and racism here and you're saying we're more privileged than you, who's parents could pay for him to move to NYC to be a writer?) professor who's specialization is labour movements, who was also all for OWS, but is extremely critical of how the movement as a whole has been white male oriented. Its not something some hysterical women dreamed up so you had to make **** free zones to make them happy, its not something black people who don't like you much is making up to discredit you, you're insanely privileged and you never want to listen unless people are stroking your ego. You're willing to take a bruising for cops now, but you never cared when it was black people. You don't care that women are being sexually assaulted by both activists and cops, you'll only believe it when its the other side who does it. You dismiss me and Solumina as just being too quiet, you treat sexual assault as something unreal and made up. You are the definition of privileged.
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Old 05-03-2012, 04:31 PM   #150
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