I hate that.
It's not about being right on the internet, it's about being right.

People like Alan, GM, JCC, and I are fucking frustrated with the self-delusion. It's more than one argument on the internet; our whole society is falling into this trap and it's downright frightening.

Then isn't it pointless to say she'd look better or even be healthier as a size six? At the time the picture with the golden swimsuit was taken, she was 5"11 tall and 154 pounds, Jen Hunter had a BMI of 21.5, perfectly healthy and not near in danger of being overweight. Its not unreasonable to guess that if she cut her size in half she'd drop below a healthy bmi or be close to being underweight and not look as good as she does there, being a size twelve does not necessarily mean that you're being unhealthy or overweight, and being a size six doesn't mean you're not underweight either.

As we've already established, you can't support an argument using BMI because it's only very vague.
Also, depending on weight distribution, dropping down to that size could mean losing only a few pounds, so don't treat it like it is so dramatic.

BMI is vague but not entirely useless, even in nutritional classes where we were taught to take build into account she isn't overweight. And I can even myself say I'm underweight (verified by both BMI and a doctor) and I'm a size 6, and also the same height as she is, so stop treating dress size as if it says something about your health.

Honeythorn is not our whole society, and outside this silly little 'plus size' argument she's been anything but deluded about her weight.

I'm surprised to be in this position actually because usually I'm right at the head of the anti-fat brigade. But at the end of the day what I saw was an argument about a petty definition and there were insults thrown about that were really unnecessary. Perhaps I'm just disgusted with this because I find Honeythorn to be overall quite a lovely person, and it's well documented on this website how hard she's been trying to get healthy.

Who started throwing the insults? Honeythorn's weight was the elephant in the room (oh shit, I kill me sometimes) that we were all trying our best to avoid so as not to hurt her feelings, but when she keeps retorting to every fucking thing with "SIZE 12 ISN'T A PLUS SIZE" "YOU ALL LIKE SKELETAL FREAKS" "YOU WANT FAT PEOPLE TO DIE" it's difficult to feel guilty when you retort with calling her porky.

The stuff she said wasn't prodding a deep-rooted self esteem issue in all of you, at least not knowingly.

I won't stop treating dress size that way.

I never said you shouldn't take height into account. I never said you can tell if a woman is fat or thin by looking at just her dress size. I never said all cases are the same.

Stop misunderstanding me.

Why even bother saying that when it's clear that we understand it?

It's not clear by the way you're treating this.

I'm getting over an eating disorder. It's alright though, I'm not the sort of bitchy shithead that would get indignant about shit whenever I relate to an issue a little too much and start letting it cloud my judgment when I dish out insults to people more reasonable than me about their aesthetic preferences, so you don't have to worry about my feelings. You just keep mollycoddling ate-20-jars-of-honeythorn over there whenever she starts being a bitch.

In what way has anyone given the impression that we feel Honeythorn is the whole society?

I know that I personally have actually said outright the my frustration is not really with Honeythorn, but OTHER people, you know, thus demonstrating that I realize Honeythorn is not all of society.

I'm sorry to hear about your eating disorder, but there was no way of anyone in the discussion knowing about it until you said so. You keep up quite a thick-skinned persona on here so I guess it's easy to forget you have issues of your own. I apologise for making the assumption.

And what's with the use of the word 'keep'? This is the first time I've stood up for her in any way, and I've already stated why.

There's no need to apologise, that's the point I'm making. If I have a problem, and an issue that is raised gets inside my skin, I still have no right to start casting my problems out on to everyone else and then demand their sensitivity anyway, and neither does honeythorn.

As for 'keep', I meant to persist as you are, it was an order, I wasn't implying that you're like honeythorn's Robin.

I thought you were referring to the second part of the sentence.

As for the first part - you talked about the frustration as though it were justification for the insults that were directed towards Honeythorn. I just stated it because it should be extremely obvious that she's not all society.

I just keep responding because you and Ophelia are and I have nothing better to do.

I won't retract the apology, because I actually am sorry. I can see your point though. I never said Honeythorn was devoid of being at all wrong in this thread, just that things got a bit too far below the belt in one particular direction. That is all.

Cicero I just want to point out that there have been plenty of post on this site about people having eating disorders and Honeythorn has given input into those decisions so she is aware of this, she just decided to disregard that and toss around eating disorders as if they were nothing serious. I'm sorry but the way that she did that really surprised, saddened, and angered me.

It was clear that everyone had been making a point of avoiding talking about her weight even though it was clearly coloring her opinion but she started throwing insults that have every chance of seriously getting into people's psyche and when you do that you should expect to be treated in kind.

Look, I understand all that. I know why the shit-flinging started, and it was indeed in both directions. But did anyone notice that it stopped from one particular side when the other decided to retaliate as it did? And yet it kept going? That's what bothered me.

Yo, this is Gnet. Insult-slinging always goes further than it needs to because that's what we are, ultimately, all about. We're all a bunch of volatile fucks on a horse so high it makes our nose bleed; it was miraculous that we spent this long taking someone's feelings into account when it wasn't reciprocated.

Is it just me or does your username mean John Cooper Clarke?

For serious, I only wish it did.

My internets died when I tried to make a post before comparing my (reasonably thin) body with a delicious ladyfriend's (larger) body and our relative health.

The gist was this. I am a UK size 8-10, or US 6-8. Not large, I'm sure we can all agree. Not underweight either, not the danger zone that UK size 6 can be, but some way from being a big girl. My ladyfriend is a UK 14, or US 12, usually the start of plus-sizes in America (though 16 is more usually the start of the plus sizes in the UK). She is taller than me, bigger boned than me, and her body does have more curve than mine, particularly in the places that it looks best. She is also in better physical shape than me, with far more strength and stamina.

Her dress size may be heading toward the generous, and mine may be in the suggested portion size, but she's the one in better health. I am the weakling who gets out of breath after too many flights of stairs. Dress size really isn't all that indicative of health. You need to be really quite overweight before serious judgements can be made based on clothing size- UK 16-18 at least.

Every single person arguing that a bigger dress size could mean poor health allowed for that.
Not once did anyone say that it ALWAYS meant you're a fat fat fatty.

He lives in Judged's neighbourhood, and she knows him.

One more reason to touch her if you ever mosey down to her neck of the woods.