I wonder if Internet is replacing my social needs to be around people, because of the ease and convinience. Went to the store to make a couple returns and finish holiday shopping and actually got flustered.

The top is partially open, I mean it does have a lid but the lid is much more open than some of the other tanks I have had in the past. It has always seemed to evaporate a bit on the quick side. It is a 20 gallon that we keep filled to about 17 as we have the turtle in there and we don't want him bumping he head on the lid, other than him we have 2 cory catfish, 2 little silver fish that I can't remember the name of (they look like minnows with fancy tails), and some live plants. We also have a waterfall filter.

I’m usually pretty good about doing an exchange weekly but I will admit that the last two exchanges were closer to a week and a half because my work schedule has been changing (and it is much easier to do an exchange on a day off).

Should I be worried or is this just something that is a bit odd but nothing to worry about?

Well if the lid is part open then there's your reason. You should look into getting a complete covered hood or at the very least a splash tray . It will help prevent evaporation and stop dust and debris getting into your water. It won't harm your fish or turtle, it'sll just make more work for you.


I have no idea who told you it was either ok or normal to keep turtles and fish together in a tank but they were a right bloody fool :eek: Most commonly kept pet turtles eat fish in the wild. If yours is still small he won't be able to yet, but if he's something like a red eared slider he'll end up the size of a dinner plate and need FAR more than 20 gallons and a simple waterfall filter, as well as some terrestrial surfaces to bask on. They are not 100% aquatic. And he will of course eat any of your fish he can catch.

The filtration alone will not be remotely adequate, turtles are incredible waste producers and he'll foul up your water worse than a goldfish as he grows. No joke. You're looking at a good 40-50 gallons + when he's an adult for tank size ( he will need to swim and move about and so on ) so I hope your place is relatively spacious?

Cories need to be in groups of 6 + as they are extremely social little things and like to gaggle about together grubbing for food on the floor , and your little silver fish... well unless you can identify them I have no idea but I would hazard a guess that they maybe some sort of Tetra or Danio , possibly even killifish ( google images and see if anything matches) because most people are reccomended these as beginner fish ( uh oh...) Almost all small fish like tetras and Danios also like to be in groups of 8+ . They socialise and display more naturally as they feel vastly safer in large numbers.

Don’t worry I know how about the issues of a pet turtle, he isn't going to be our turtle once he grows up, he is currently about an inch and a half long, once he reaches two inches he will be going to the Virginia Living Museum (that is the minimum size they will take) and he does have a pretty nice sized turtle dock. I know the little silvers aren't Tetras, I'd recognize them, they could be Danios that sounds right, for now I’m going to assume that is right. We had five of the Danios and three of the Cories back in the fall (along with a Pleco) but the heater died while we were on vacation and we lost most of our fish. I knew Cories didn't like being alone but didn't know they needed schools that size. We've been planning on replacing the fish that we lost but wanted to make sure that our fish had recovered from the low temperatures first, then when the one got sick we wanted to make sure that everything was all good before we got more and now I wanted to make sure that the water evaporation wasn’t too much of an issue before I got anyone new (though at the earliest it won’t be until January cuz I just don’t have the time).

I'mma get a Motorola Defy because I love social networking because I'm such a faarking hipster :D

....I need to look into that one.

It's also got one of them hyper durable screens that are perfect for doing lines off. It's pretty much perfect fo' mee :D

...the social networking thing is whats giving me a hard on.

Why would a screen need to be super durable to do lines off of it?

Good stuff, I like turtles, my friend keeps them and fortunately has the space, cute things but I wouldn't want to keep one myself.

Most small fish prefer groups of as large as size as possible. If in doubt with similar fish , get at least six as a bare minimum and you should be ok, though the bigger the tank, then of course the more the merrier with them.

Also, don't replace your plec with anything other than a bulldog Plec if you really must have one . Common plecs and most of the typical species sold ( including bristlenoses ) grow far too large for 20 gallons. 14 inches is an easy feat for a common plec, and they can be bullies as well as kncoking decor over , shovelling up the gravel and uprooting any plants.

They also don't live solely off algae ( which many stores will tell you ) and do not clean the glass as many believe ( that mouth is for anchorage, not cleaning ). They're terrible waste producers too, bad as goldfish if not worse. I know a guy who specialises in plecs, adores the things, but I wouldn't have one for any money >.<

I've downsized my tanks for now, got too much on at the moment so I have my main planted 30 gallon running and that's it. 1 black angelfish, 9 neon tetras and 5 gold barbs.

You wouldn't necessarily but I like making my lines with blades. Just happens to be force of habit.

Good stuff, I didn't know that about plecos, I mean I knew they couldn't just live off of algae and that they tend to not agree with plants, but didn't know they were that much of waste producers or that they got that big. Perhaps we shall instead replace the pleco with more cories.

Will six cories, six danios, and the turtle be okay in about 17 gallons? I've always been told that you should allow at least a gallon per inch of fish that you have (but that even small solitary fish need a tank that is at least 5 gallons to allow for proper mobility and such) and I can't remember how big the cories get and I don't really know how to factor in the turtle who spends much of his time on his dock.

I've been thinking about getting an additional 10 or 15 gallon tank but that will be later in January (once I've gotten my finances all straightened out from holiday spending), it was going to be for tetras but maybe I'll just keep the cories and turtle in the tank we have and the smaller tank could be for the danios.

That lot in 17 gallons should be fine and will be even better when the turtle is gone. More cories is always good.

10-15 gallons... I would say no for Danios as they are extremely active and despite their smallish size, need quite a bit of space - length espescially, to zoom up and down. If you can get a 15 gallon long ( as opposed to standard or tall) then 6 Danios in that will work ok. But if it's standard then use it for something else. Rasboros and some of the much smaller tetras ( neons for example) would work, or a Dwarf Gourami, or my favourite - a betta ( 10-15 gals is perfect for a betta )

You can also get pygmy cories which would work out great in 10-15 gals, they do a bit of swimming in the midsections as well as the bottom and are really really sweet little things. Normans lampeye killifish are a good size too, need 6-8 for that tank size, and they are really cool little plain silver fish with electric blue "eyebrows" I need to keep those again I think...:)

Good to know about the danios needing the length, I think I will keep the tank as is then and go with tetras when I get the new tank.

Are there any products that you recommend when setting up a new tank? I haven't set one up in years (Jake set this one up with minimal help from me) but this new take is going to be mine so I want to be the one to set it up (after all if the tank is mine Jake can't say no to a school of pink neons). I mean I know the very basics like making sure that everything is set up and stable before getting the fish, that the water has to be treated since it is city water, and that obviously I'll need a tank, filter, heater, and gravel but that is about all that I can remember.

Would a tall 15 work okay for the neons or would the regular better? I have room for either but I like the look of the tall ones so if either is just as good I'll go with that.

I was also thinking about maybe doing some plants and such for the new tank, are there any that you would recommend? We have bamboo in our current tank that seems to be doing rather well but that is pretty much the limit of my success with live plants in fish tanks. Nothing too froffy but maybe some moss balls.

No, seriously, can I just make a new "What are you currently listening to" thread, so I don't have to click so many damn pages to see?

I made a gingerbread house. If it was a real house it would have one of those "Danger: Condemmed house" signs out the front. I'm amazed it's still standing.

I'm going to do create one of those signs for the front of it.

And I actually have photographic evidence that I do indeed have kangaroos loose in the top paddock.

See what? See the thread? If that is the problem just search for it.

I don't understand this question.

Dude I just read that it's f'n WATERPROOF. How sweet is that!

Products? Not really, you personally don't need anything except Dechlorinator to make your tapwater safe .

You're going about it the right way because you're not getting the tank until late January? This is perfect. Because you will need to cycle your filter. And you can do it the super easy way by getting your new filter NOW, and running it in your current tank, until your new one is completely set up and ready to go. The waste from the fish in your current tank will seed your new filter and since the cycling process for it to do this takes approximately one month, now is the right time to start it.


By the time your new tank is set up, you can fill it with dechlorinated water, put your -by then- fully cycled filter and heater in, switch them on and go and get fish that same day. Your filter will be full of bacteria and ready to go at once.


There are products sold that claim to cycle a tank, ( one is called cycle oddly enough ) but they are complete bullshit. The bacteria that thrive in your filter and keep the water parameters stable, require a flow of oxygen and fish waste/ammonia over them at all times, in order to survive and do their job. A sealed bottle that's been sat on a shelf for weeks/months, at room temperature will not contain any live or remotely beneficial bacteria. There is simply no way for them to survive. So when people buy those products, they're shelling out $$ for empty useless fluid.


For neons, a tall will be ok. They zip about but they prefer slower waters to Danios and don't need so much length.

But if you go with a tall your choice of live plants will be reduced unless you upgrade the lights the tank comes with. A taller tank means the light has to travel further and the water distorts it. So many plants won't do as well.

If you do go with a tall, then moss balls will still work ok, and so will floating plants of course. If you get a nice piece of twiggy bogwood or manzanita, you can angle it upwards to the surface, and tie on Java moss. Java moss and moss balls are stupendously easy to keep, low light in terms of how demanding they are for spectrum, and fairly hard to kill. If you want long/tall plants in there aside from those, then you will need to upgrade the lights (get extra or stronger ones) or get some of the best silk plants you can find. Silk are pretty realistic, beter than plastic by far, and of course they will never die and you can also rinse any debris from them under the tap.

If you're not used to live plants or want something easy, then a mix of silks and simple live ones is a great way to start .

Oh, and do not under any circumstances buy a Fluval edge, or a Biorb of any size. Almost zero surface area,terrible oxygen exchange as a result, no floorspace, horrific filtration, overpriced... the list is endless....:confused:

I really really want a custom built tank, shallow - 8 inches deep or so, but about 2.5 feet long and 15 inches wide. Perfect betta tank. I would actually try to get hold of viable rice seeds to grow in the tank if possible to re-create a rice paddy biotope :)

Awww Honey you get so adorable when you talk about bettas.

Thanks for the help, I knew Biorbs and Fluvals were crap, just didn't know if there were any especially goo brands that you would recommend. The mix of taller silk plants and the live moss balls were what I was thinking so it sounds like the tall should be great.

^___^ I do love my bettas. I recently lost my old boy :( He was a reasonable age though at 5 years old and sadly had a tumour ( can't fix those in fish )


In terms of branded tanks, Juwel have a good reputation, And for a reasonably priced plain glass tank, you can't get much better than a bog standard Clearseal. There's loads of brands of tanks and most are good, it's just always a good idea to avoid "concept" or "design" tanks such as the edge and biorb , like the plague.

Fluval do some good tanks, just not the edge. Many on the fish forums are saying the Osaka is ok ( expensive though )

Aqua one do some nice looking tanks too.

Clearseal are usually sold as just the glass box, no lid. You should get a lid made for it if you get that brand, because the one made for it is a hideous formed plastic thing that's useless.



I'd strongly reccomend going for a second hand tank and filter. Those are the two most expensive pieces of kit and getting second hand stuff will save you a bloody fortune.

I'm going to re-write one of my books - 100,000 words down the drain.

I had an echidna in the back yard. he was spikey.

I got through the holidays with very little family drama! Its a Christmas miracle!