I want to know the definition of hate speech, since people in this thread have been accused of it twice.
People with guns are not being denied the rights of others and are making a definite and deliberate choice- unlike sexuality, disability and race, gun ownership is a choice, and thus totally open to all the criticism and ridicule people feel like throwing.
It doesn't even equate to religion, unless you're going to say that the right to own a gun is just as important as the right to spiritual fulfilment without lynching.

So what's the hate speech you've accused Saya and myself of? We insulted you, criticising your views. We are not advocating violence against you/ gun-owners, or segregation, or mass extermination, or trying to deny you employment, marriage reproductive rights. That would be hate speech.

(this is totally and utterly seperate from my actual arguments about whether or not someone should have guns, and why they should or should not. This is a genuine request for clarification on a single term)

To bring things back to topic in a way...

Remember when I mentioned the X-REP tazer system that can be launched from a 12 gauge shotgun?


http://www.prisonplanet.com/long-ran...ty-debate.html

The first cartoon in saya's post was one depicting the relocation or wish to have gun owners relocated to a violent third world country.

That is a good idea.

All gun nuts should be relocated to violent third world Muslim countries, while all the freethinkers/Atheists from those countries should relocate in the other direction.

It'd be fun to watch you morons shoot/blow each other up.

I guess that makes me a facist, but |'m OK with that.

Really? Are we looking at the same cartoon? The cartoon that just made the joke that by the way you talk you'd be happier in a country with no laws and lots of guns? The joke that..never mind, I'll let you work it out.

That cartoon was wrong anyway. The guy should be wearing a shirt with the Confederate flag, not the American flag. The so called "rebel" flag.

The concept of the cartoon is based on your particular ideals regarding gun ownership and law enforcement. It is a parody, drawing a comparison between your desire for gun freedom and strong individualism rather than government interference, and the particular turmoil of nations which have just that combination. It does not advocate the death of gun owners, and it's not even really suggesting relocation- only that the particular circumstances they claim to favour already exist in other places and have nor worked well for the people in those places.

We are not advocating shipping you off en masse to be killed by violent militia with guns in wartorn African states.

They do have a strong gun culture but,the place is ruled by different tribesmen, not by Constitutional laws that apply to all citizens.

The spot depicted in the cartoon is a result of Anarchy unchecked,not liberty.

What's the difference?

Under Constitutional Law you have the choice of being armed or unarmed.

With unchecked Anarchy you would need a firearm,and there wouldn't be a choice in the matter.

That's the difference.

You didn't say Constitutional Law, you said liberty, those two are far from interchangeable.


Of course there would be a choice, there are plenty of people in places like Somalia who remain unarmed, not to mention the fact that anarchy is not inherently violent.

Somalia's is. But here I'm working with Somalia's anarchy, not my own terms of anarchism.
You raised perfectly the counterarguments I was going to say, so I'll wait for them to be addressed.

There is my answer.


U.S. Constitutional Law is Liberty.

Wow. How fucking idiotic.
It is solely U.S. Constitutional Law that is Liberty, huh?
There are no shortcomings, nor anything that could be cut out. IT IS FUCKING PERFECT!

That's more idiotic than most Christians' opinions on their holy text. Your level of stupidity gets bigger and bigger as time passes by.

For me it is,seeing as how I live in the U.S. and all.

Somalians don't, and yet you idiotically say that they're not living in liberty because liberty is U.S Constitutional Law.

My answer...

Notice I said "For ME it is" I never said it was the only kind of Liberty.

It is (most likely) just what you have grown up with as normal, and accept it as the "default setting".

There are some huge flaws with the way we have things set up here, and some nearly incomprehensible viewpoints that average people seem to have.

Stop fucking try to bullshit your way around it.

You JUST FUCKING SAID right here (I quoted you, try to bullshit now) that they're not in a state of liberty. Not even you were fucking talking about 'your liberty' you fucking idiot.

*pokes head in this thread and runs away*

dang, I was here when this thread started.....in May or something?

In my opinion they aren't living in a state of liberty,but that's my opinion on the matter.


So go fuck yourself.

I remember Alan saying before how the "Thats you're opinion" and variations of pisses him off, ever since I felt bad for him every time someone says it to him. It happens fairly often, it seems.

Jillian... why are YOU wasting your time with DMW?

And according to your logic they aren't living in liberty because they don't live specifically under U.S. Constitutional Law.

Are you seriously that fucking stupid you can't follow YOUR OWN statements?

I know exactly what I've said.

I stated my Opinion that they aren't living in Liberty.

What part of that are you having a hard time understanding?

He needs to grow the fuck up,and get over it then because getting all pissy pants won't help him any,but only show how immature he really is.

According to the guy who thinks Americans must be the only liberated people in the world because they have the U.S. Constitution....?

Too bad we Canadians are slaves, I guess I just can't understand liberty like Americans do.

We're all slaves in this world whether it be it unnoticeable or unbearable.
Life comes at a price.

That's your opinion.

Its your opinion, actually.

Were you or were you not stating your opinion of me,as well as my mindset?

No, just paraphrasing. And then mocking in the last bit.

How was it Canada received it's sovereignty and liberty again?

That's right Canada licked the Royals boots,until they were "Granted" Independence.

Meanwhile Americans kicked the Crown out of what is now OUR country.

So I guess you are right in a way,even though you were trying to mock me.

I love my girlfriend.
Potential Threesome on the way.
Hopefully I shoot blanks.
It is my right.

What does that have to do with anything?

I'm sorry Deadmanwalking5.0 did I offend you?

was I supposed to stay on topic?

I saw nothing in the Gnet rules about it...

:(

Well he did...mention...Shooting...

No you didn't offend me,I was just wondering where the hell that came from?

Good for you on talking your GF into a threesome,hope that works out.

He still stayed on topic so that's a +++++

Even if we were anti-gun... that would be people a better reason to sneak a gun somehow....

Me if everyone is not doing it I'd probably do it. Vise versa...

Just fucking tell me why you don't think they live under liberty.
Try that.

Freedom!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And now for something completely non-different:

Alan: You actually changed my opinions and assumptions, by asking hard questions (of others mostly, not necessarily me directly) and forcing me to think deeper on issues. When you did so, your guiding questions and statements of facts were not venomous, they weren't sugar coated either, but weren't venomous. As a result, I was not distracted by defending my self personally while contemplating the answers to the questions you posed and revelations you made.

But in the case of Deadman, it seems you have lost patience. I know very intelligent people find it insufferable to wait for people of more common intelligence to "catch up", so this is understandable.

But if your long term goal is to win the day, wouldn't it be better to convert him as you did me (on other issues), rather than insult him and thus alienate him further? You do nothing for your cause by addressing him with "What's your IQ?" and "fucking stupid".

Your approach is like leading a horse to water and then whipping it to try and make it drink.

Think of the examples of history's great political leaders: they must have known that the majority of the population beliefs were shallow or misguided by demagogues, yet they remained noble examples of leadership towards noble causes, and thus led a confused, apathetic and misinformed public towards enlightenment. Their causes would not have been helped by hurling their own insults at the misinformed or unenlightened.

By the way, this is not a defense of Deadman. I know the 2nd Amendment defenders very well and their beliefs run very deep.
Rather, I hope to convince you to try a different delivery, because I think your views of issues are well thought out and have the benefit of humanity at the core and thus should be given a better chance at proliferating, and that won't happen with the delivery I see you using in this thread.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty
"Liberty is a concept of political philosophy and identifies the condition in which an individual has the right to act according to his or her own will.

Individualist and classical liberal conceptions of liberty relate to the freedom of the individual from outside compulsion or coercion."

Technically, Deadman, those in Somalia are at liberty since there are no laws to govern their behaviour. Technically, those in the States are not at absolute liberty because they are governed and restricted in their activities.

Just if we're going to pick about 'liberty'. There is, of course, a difference between positive and negative liberty (certain liberties being actively protected and promoted, or certain liberties existing because they have not been prohibited), but either way citizens of the US are not at complete liberty.

Nor, really, are Somalians as they're lacking in adequate protection for their liberties, but they are still at liberty do whatever they like so long as it is within their power.

You may be quite happy to claim that something is your opinion, but please do understand that being an opinion does not give it special protection. It could also be your opinion that the Sun is a giant hologram, but that would not be true either, and we would be free to pick at it as well.
Perhaps what you meant to say was "in my opinion, my liberties as a citizen of the United States are greater than the liberties of an individual in lawless Somalia", perhaps you would even have gone on to explain that "this is because as a US citizen, I have protections over my rights and liberties that Somalians do not. While I may lack some rights they technically have, I am in practice able to exercise far more liberty than they are thanks to this protection of my remaining liberties."

Fallout 3!

I dunno; if you find yourself in non-military-related situations that require those kinds of self-defense methods to be used on a regular basis, then perhaps it's time to move into a nicer neighborhood. x_x;;;

To be honest, with the way my emotions tend to run dangerously high at times and the fact that I'm not especially graceful, it's probably best that I -don't- know how to use a firearm; I wouldn't want to be responsible for accidentally mortally wounding someone I love.

And that's the thing. Anyone picking up a gun can throw the "accidentally" statement out the window since they are holding a device that has been designed with the sole purpose of killing something.

Upon re-reading this thread, I would like to formally apologise to Alan for my posts made here a few months ago.

If I remember correctly, those were made at the height of our feud, and were a little vitriollic, even by my standards.

It's a bit hazy, but I think I may have jumped in here and missed the pages of conversation beforehand, thus lacking context, I think I misunderstood Alan's point and accidentally manufactured an argument that didn't exist.

My bad guy. Carry on.

Yah I as well, went all out bersirk on this issue...my moms cousin got shot in the head by her husband while he was drunk...my sentiments have slightly changed since then.

Exactly. My luck, I'd trip and shoot myself in the face or something.