So says you. Let's face it, no one has a fucking clue about what makes a person goth, because no one can agree on it.

So says everyone with half a brain. The Goth movement comes from the Goth Rock of the late 70's and early 80's. It's well documented and agreed upon.

In the event that I someday get to visit Australia where is this club of yours/ what is it's name?

ok. maybe juz where i live. teehee

SWEAR shoes r raver shoes.

but i really have no idea y EBM is played in goth clubs.
i really don't know y when i go to a club they play "And One" 3 times in one night :/
i'm still searching for answers...lolz

So Joy Division are goth because they made the song "Love Will Tear Us Apart"? Is this despite the fact that every other song of theirs is hardcore punk?

Hmm...every club I go to that has a "goth" night refers to their "goth night" as "GOTHIC/INDUSTRIAL/EBM" night.

That would be 1334 in Melbourne:

www.myspace.com/club1334

What are you talking about? No Joy Division songs are Hardcore. Hardcore came later with bands like Minor Threat and the Dead Kennedys.

Goth didn't start until Bauhaus, strictly speaking, but Joy Division are often called Goth or "proto-Goth" because they were so influential to it.

Right [Rolls eyes]. You ever listened to a whole Joy Division album? Or just that one song like 90% of people who call themselves fans?

Hahahhaha!

It's funny 'cuz it's true. Also, it's very depressing.

Do you EVER sleep, yo!

Sometimes, but not tonight. Got too much shit going. Have to go to the hardware store to pick up some crap. Need a new 6mm masonry drill bit, some copper wire, a bunch of screws and rawlplugs, then I gotta find out where the fuck I can buy neodymium magnets. I'm putting up shelves and making my own pickups, because I'm fucking awesome like that.

Yes, I happen to own Unknown Pleasures. YOU'VE obviously never listened to Joy Division if you think they're Hardcore.

Why do I even waste my time on you fuckwits?

I own the entire collection, rares and collectibles, I've sat down with the group and was friends with them for a long time before and after Joy Division. Also, I am much cooler than you.

...

Fuckwit.

I wouldn't say Joy Division are Hardcore Punk, I think they land firmly in Post-Punk.

I don't mean hardcore as in hardcore punk, I mean hardcore as in "Not a bunch of pussy little mother fucker goths who want their Mommy" like the rest of the pissy little goth douches are.

I hate 'Love Will Tear Us Apart' anyway. I think it's the worst song they ever released.

The fact that it's over played kills it, and it doesn't help that it's become the anthem for all the sniveling little goffic kids.

My general disillusionment with the world has deepened seeing that so called alternative people are worse than all the "brainless mainstream people" put together.

Goths, in particular, live in some fantasy world and I can feel nothing but contempt towards them and other so called non-conformist, intelligent, alternative people.

Don't go crying to your mommy. She is busy being penetrated by Duckie.

Well, the vocals suck, the main melody is a bit cheesy, it has this bad tendency to fall a bit out of time, and it's repetitive. Joy Division's other output is much better.

I just remember seeing them live for the first time in Manchester in a dingy little bar where fights would break out every five minutes, and no one would leave without a scar. Now it's one song played over and over again to load of pretentious nut-suckers.

FOOK YOUS GUYSES!!

If any Joy Division song should be played non-stop it should be Twenty Four Hours rather than their self-indulgent goffik rubbish.

Such a cool drumming in that song. It all works.