This is the intent our forefathers had in adding the Second Amendment, the last resort to counter tyrannical violence with the people's violence, and so keep tyranny at bay.

Really? I love your talk. If I knew someone like you talking some mad shit like this at a tournament, I'd fake my rank just to put you in your place. You'd lose. But it's not from a lack of skill, it's from a lack of intent.

We've got a few kung-fu masters up in here. i'd like to see Fists of Fury GNet Edition.

To the topic at hand.
i am pro-gun. i don't think everyone should own one though. Some people can't back up their fucking car to get out of the drive-way...no guns for them. It would end messy.

That was a daily activity at my grandmother's house when i was growing up.

I know she's full of shit because if it was really hard, she'd be able to do something seemingly less hard like, I don't know, GET A JOB.

I have a fucking job you arsehole.
And I got my Blackbelt fair and square. I went through 5 tournaments and ended up second place in two of them, 3rd in the other three. I trained at Karate for atleast 3 hours every Saturday morning, went home and trained some more. During the week, when I got back from school, I'd go down to the Garage and practise my kicks and punches on my punchbag, then go back upstairs and practice my Kata's in my room.
Do you wanna know how hard it was to get my 1st Degree Blackbelt? By the end of that thing, I collapsed from exhaustion and very nearly passed out. The same happened when I got my 2nd Degree. Then I gave up. Now, I'm hoping to go over to California and train with Jason David Frank. He's my Hero and it would be an honour to train with him, just to see how differently he does things.
Karate ain't easy when it's done right, and it teaches you a fuck load of discipline.
I'd love to see you win in a fight against my Sensei. I really would. He's an 8th Degree Blackbelt in Shoto Khan.

I'm not talking about your sensai, now am I. I'm talking about you, shithead. With as much as you talk, I'll reiterate, I would SO fake my rank just to prove to you that your black strip around your waist means jack and shit.

Ms. Crowbar, I have something for you to read, since you like to fancy yourself a student of war. It is the story of just ONE Medal of Honor recipient of the United States Military. Now, I haven't looked for any stories of the REAL warriors of your country, I find that's more your job.

I would like you to read this link: http://www.medalofhonor.com/RobertBush.htm

Now you want to sit there and tell me that you're in some way a kind of billy badass and yet here you are, giving up in your craft to only 2nd degree black belt at the threat of exhaustion only?

There are people out there that have fought harder and more dangerously than you and I will ever know. So please, tell me where your precious black belt means a damned thing if you had to quit because you were getting too tired?

I've done these tough belt promotions you speak of. They aren't easy. Try to do a belt promotion sometime when you get one of your eyes nearly blinded in the face of real injury and excruciating pain, only to know that at that moment, seeing the end of it, even only half way because of painful blindness, is the only thing that matters to you in the whole world.

And I would NEVER try to lift myself up to the kind of heroism and warriordom that are the fighters of all nations, for good or for bad, that believe that the way of the warrior is nothing more than ultimate sacrifice for the betterment of the people and their countrymen.

I think in that scope, you will realize that you have done NOTHING.

Kontan once beat me out for the top prize in a tournament.

I'll get you for that you son of a bitch!

Drake:

Kudos man, I'm really enjoying your posts. Well, thought out, well reasoned arguments seem to be few and far between on Gothic.net. Thanks for bunping that number up a bit. :)

But for the sake of the thread. I love gun ranges. I once got to shoot and M60. It was great fun.

Nothin' says "Vacate The Area" like a belt of 7.62x51mm NATO

No, because it's annoying for you to constantly bring up karate in a thread that's about guns.
Charity work is not a job.

I am trying to get someone to take me up to a shooting range. I have been instructed to stock up on firearms as soon as possible, but I have no idea how to use them.

Earlier Ms.Crowbar did come off more as Ms. Chip_on_her_shoulder.

But the past is the past.

Back to the Original Topic.

Where do you live M.D.A.?

Holy crap, dude. Feel the love in this thread! FEEL it!

5 minutes from the Alamo. Just knock.

If only it weren't for the couple or so thousand miles between us I'd be right there.

It is cool that you are proud of your karate training. However, there is a reason that modern millitaries are equipped with firearms, and not bo staves or nunchaku.

I bought my glock 17 with my economic stimulus package this last summer. It just seemed like the right thing to do.

I'm hoping to get to the range more this year. I'll be moving back to NH, which is a more reasonable state than MA in terms of promoting individual freedom.

The reason the army doesn't have nunchaku is a lack of vision on the part of military officials. I dream of a world in which, when enemy soldiers run out of ammo in their Assault Rifles, they rush each other with nunchucks instead of stopping to reload like pussies.

Maybe we could draw up a design where two spare magazines are joined by a chain - then the soldiers can be equally effective at range, or close combat?

Since they wouldn't just be throwing the magazines away and it is like recycling, they could finance wars with the carbon credits. Economic crisis is solved.

Yup, and that reason pretty much boils down to the fact that you can quite literally give just about anyone a gun, tell them "shoot in that direction" and have a competent "unit" in your military force. Firearms, at least in the early times, came into force largely because they were "idiot proof" for warfare. Little to no training for a weapon that can be a one-hit-kill and keep you at a range where a miss might not be absolutely fatal to your men.

Also, most armies in the world are still traned in armed and unarmed combat to some extent because any weapon as complex as a gun is liable to crap the bed on you in the middle of a battlefield.

But that's a big asside...

In the eyes of a master pillow fighter, the use of bodily appendages to cause pain rather than submission is seen as cowardice.

Dude, she's a damned idiot.

Ladies and gentlemen, behold:

GUNCHAKU

Who could stand against this unstoppable weapon? There could be an additional remote trigger on each gun, which would fire its counterpart. I expect this winning concept to show up in some gnet member's shitty 'manga' , but I'm at peace with that.

Talk about killing at both ends!

I hate guns, I hate fighting and will avoid it at all costs and, more specifically...
I HATE WAR! I hate war, I hate Nuclear weapons and I hate what war leads to! Why the fuck do you think I'm a member of Greenpeace and CND? Why the fuck do you think I went to Faslane? To fucking Protest against war and Nuclear weapons! You think I enjoy fighting? By fuck, the first thing that I'll do is walk away from a fight because I don't like fighting. I'll walk away, and only if I get attacked will I fight.
All that being able to win a fight does is attract more fights. You're like a fucking magnet if you win a fight.

Not always,but I have gotten into a few scrapes where it was about bragging rights (Theirs not mine),because of my rep.

But they found out the hardway why I had that rep.

The only thing I love about a fight is when it's over.

Guns are for queers.

Suck my cock.

Thanks for posting.

Fuck you, asshole. Cock shit bitch.

Gunchucks are brilliant, a much better idea than my original magchucks.

I applaud your contributions in the field of research and development to assist the brave men and women who serve their countries, and sincerely hope that a no-bid contract will be awarded to you to help you continue your work on their behalf.

Make sure all the training in use is hammered out before someone ends up taking themselves or squad mates out of the population.

I'm sitting here trying to picture some female person who is a highly trained martial artist, and who has a reputation for getting into and winning fights, and this reputation actually attracting people to pick fights with her, and all I keep coming up with is characters from Japanese animations.

Bitch, shut the fuck up. You want to present some badass posturing with no evidence that you are, you're going to illicit a response from me of this nature.

Hey, here's a novel fucking thought. Karate is FUCKING obsolete in the art of war these days. Deal with it and get with the fucking program. You've done nothing much more different than kids learning to play soccer. Fuck off you stupid cunt.

Every fucking time you post, you have more shit to say to lift yourself higher than the opinion that's been established on you here and yet STILL you want to fucking cry because mommy and daddy wont let you have your little devil story book and let you look like a fucking clown.

Jesus fucking butt fuck, no one is impressed with you. Nothing you have said is even remotely interesting or special.

Lock that shit up with the guns being dishonorable bullshit. There's no honor in violence, so why the fuck should anyone go easy on anyone else? You want to know why your precious samurai warrior isn't taken seriously anymore? Because they'll NEVER EVER be able to win a modern war with their bare hands and swords. How about getting into the real world and lay off the fucking Dragon Ball Z, you damned child.

I think if I ever see you, I'll fight you. It's a win-win situation, really. If I win, I'll have the enjoyment of having kicked your ass. If I lose, I'll have fulfilled a masochistic fantasy.

This isn't really effected. Look at Northern Ireland, or back to 1916 during the Uprising. Guns were and are illegal, yet those who deem it necessary to use them to gain freedom still have access to them.

I would argue thats the wrong way to look at that. I mean, personally, I think they should legalise drugs across the board to lower violence. Drug related violence is directly linked to the prohibition by the government. This leads to obvious problems with supply and demand, backed by a government who is not afraid to use military force on a civilian population, leading to cartels and gangs that have no problem in using the same amount of force back. To compare a gun ban to a drug ban is not a fair comparison - I don't think cartels will spring up trying to get guns to people in America, nor do I think gun running gangs will be showing up across the country either.

You say that, and per your first point you say its unfair to compare an unarmed <fill-in-the-blank-country> to an unarmed America, but the reality is we don't have to look outside of America to see a gun ban.

DC and NYC already have gun bans in place. True, the DC gun ban just lost in court and is now being lifted, but it has been there for decades and the effects have already been seen and can be quantified. Same goes for Virginia - where they have a programme in place that automatically doubles the sentence or adds five years time to any sentence for anyone who uses a gun in the commission of a crime.

Sure you still have gun violence, but the amount in comparison to other areas has dropped significantly and you see now looking at the actual stats the the gun violence is limited to a specific group - usually inner city gangs who shoot other inner city gang members - you do not see the average public getting shot on the scale you see in other metropolitan areas in America.

I'd like to point out, I've spent quite a few years training in the martial arts, and this has to be one of the most goddamn stupid things I have ever seen. If I was looking for a place to train, and found a dojo where I heard this drivel I'd be out of there before an adequately placed cliche could describe the speed of my exit.

Stern,you also need to look at the crime stats in the areas that have bans on guns.

My guess is you will see more crime in the areas that have banned guns as opposed to those that don't have restrictions on firearms.

Only if you were to attack first. I won't fight unless I absolutely have to.

You might want to use a gun, Ms. Crowbar, I bet Albert has WAY more deadly intent than you do. You'll lose if he attacks first.

But Brent, if someone were to use a gun on her, she'd resort to using a sword. You know, because it's not cowardice.

This takes alot of discipline. (One of my shooting heroes,the other being Jerry M.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLnmv...eature=related

It's an older vid,but damn is old Bob quick on the draw (Not only that but he hit's his targets)

Sternn, I'm kind of tied up with the DNA topic in another thread, but I don't want to puss out on this one entirely. Could I get you to dig up some of the data you were talking about with D.C. and Virginia? If the numbers are genuinely striking, you might be able to persuade me to soften my stance on this question, or at least carve out little exceptions.

Obviously it's preferable if the numbers are coming from a non-advocacy source.

Drake -

I'll find some stats for you, but I don't have them right off hand. The programme is called Project Exile.

http://www.dcjs.virginia.gov/exile/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Exile

In the first two years the project resulted in a 40% drop in gun crime across the board - from armed robbery to murder. It moved Richmond from #5 in murders per-capita in America to like #30 something.

Since then with this still in place gun crime has dropped even more, but I am looking for the specific stats on that.

Why does it always have to be a choice between nobody having guns and everyone having guns? Why can't we just have stricter enforcement of things like background checks? Maybe institute a competency test before you can own one, after all you really shouldn't own a working gun if you can't shoot for shit. I have absolutely no problem with most people owning guns, I just don't want violent criminals and idiots to have them.

To answer the questions I have never been to a shooting range but if someone offered to take me then I would most likely go.

Don't you just love the black market?

From what we see in Canada, most guns used in murders are legally obtained, those that aren't are more often bought from those who legally obtained them or stolen from those who legally obtained it. Toronto though has a hand gun problem among gangs since they smuggle them in from America.

I agree with this. I have no problem with guns. Guns can be a form of defense and protection. As along as you are not an idiot or a murderer, I think its okay. I get that if there are no bans then gun access is easy and that guns can be obtained through illegal means. Guns aren't the issue. People are. If someone really wanted to kill, they would find a way to kill, gun or not. If you are attacked by someone there is no amount of martial arts or sharp objects that can save you. Sometimes a gun just works. I'm not saying it should be the first option or that it is the best but in these times they can operate as a necessary evil. Perfect peace is great and I wish it could happen but sometimes its just a choice between them or you and you have to make a choice.

Thanks for posting everybody (Reguardless of your stance on the subject)

But Saya it's easy to blame the next country instead of adressing the problem in your own streets.I'm not saying that they don't cross the border to bring guns back....but you do understand you're talking about criminals right?

They break the law,it's what they do,and even if the U.S. banned all firearms,they would still find away around the laws there (Just as their American counterparts would,and have done here)

This is true, however, this simplified explanation fails to address a few things. First, crime is committed by a small percentage of the population. Per my previous post about Project Exile, stats show that once the police started their enforcement of this and started locking people away for long periods for gun related offenses, the number of illegal guns floating around dropped immensely. You will find people who engage in illicitly illegal actively are the same people with the guns. Remove them from the equation and the number of illegal guns drop. The average criminal who might engage in soft crime (i.e. breaking into cars, shoftlifting, etc.) then will no longer be armed as no one wants to go to prison for 20 years over stealing something thats worth under $10, and you see gun crime drop across the board.

An example of this is pizza drivers in Richmond. Prior to them enacting this programme they were often robbed at gun point. After the programme went into effect delivery drivers reported like an 80% drop in robberies, and the few that were robed were either robbed at knife point or with a baseball bat or something other than a gun, enabling many to escape.

Also on a side note, countries that ban guns don't actually ban guns.

Let me explain...

In th UK and Ireland they have gun bans. That being said I go shooting on a regular basis.

How so? Well, farmers and hunters are still allowed guns. You have to fill out a mound of paperwork, but you can get a gun for legal purposes. You also have to register your bullets and keep track of them as once a year inspectors come by and count them and you must be able to tell them where each shell is and if it was fired and where.

You also have gun clubs here. If you legally purchase a gun you can join and go to the range. So yes, guns are banned and you can't just walk in off the street and buy them, and no - you won't find gun shops here like you do in America, but you can get them through special government approved dealers and can have them, but there are many restrictions.