That reminds me of a interesting article I read a while ago, about the social causes of obesity:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/13/ma...nted=1&_r=1&em

Yeah, some asthma medications as well can make you balloon, my girlfriend's brother was on meds for his asthma and ballooned, as soon as he had to stop taking it the weight dropped in literally a month.
I know that it can be very difficult to maintain a slender figure for some people with diabetes as well, there is a problem with girls not taking their insulin to get thinner. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21692426/
See, this is where the bitchy comments from both sides get you...people willing to risk their lives to be thin.

It makes me so angry, larger ladies shouldn't bitch about slim girls and thinner ladies shouldn't bitch about overweight girls, it's HORRIBLE! The problem isn't in fat or thin, can't you realise this? The problem lies in people's attitudes towards eachother, fat doesn't mean that you're lazy, thin doesn't mean that you have an eating disorder. People come in all different shapes and sizes, we should educate more on being healthy which doesn't mean being uber slim so you look pretty, it just means having a good well being. Making comments that basically suggest that someone is unloveable because of their dress size, is disgusting. Not the dress size itself.

Plus size=overweight. A woman who is a size 12 will very nearly always be overweight. Only extreme body proportion cases would make this not so.

And obviously, we're not talking about weight from muscle.

Do you think it is more common that a random fat chick in a mall has cancer, or just got done eating large fries and a milkshake?

I vote large fries and a milk shake, that's usually the case with me anyway.

I love the way people have to let the frustrations of their own shortcomings and inadequate sex lives out on people who have nice lives...

time to have a hobnobs , does any one wants one?

...who are you talking about?

Korinna, keep this on the DL, but there's some buzz that you may have been nominated to win Greatest Feat of Self-Delusion at this year's Gnet awards. You have some stiff competition, with xjin saying she isn't racist and all, but if you claim to actually be skinny it could be in the bag.

I mean, yeah, I'm pretty sure that's the case with everyone, but, despite what the goddess may have told you when you were guzzling fried mead this midsummer, there's an infinite number of better looking girls with whom any guy interested in you would also be compatible.

Again, are these comments really neccessary?

I would make a case for them being necessary, but I'm sick of being seen as a villain.

I never said plus size wasn't overweight. I do know for a fact that a size 12 is definitely not a plus size. Plus size goes from 16 upwards. 12-14 is an average/medium and anything under is a small.

Yes. Yes they are. Females have little value other than that afforded them by the male gaze; we must be reminded of our inadequacy frequently in order to keep us subjugated and consuming.

Remember folks, capitalism loves misogyny!

I disagree, Red Menace. Every attractive woman who takes care of her body is a puppet of the system, devoid of the self-awareness that might defend her from the predations of patriarchy.

Porkers of the world unite!

You just made lesbians cry.

Uh...where?

You are?


mssg2shrt

Yeah. I can't fucking say anything without someone getting pissy.

Pretty much everywhere in my experience (which is a fair bit considering I AM an actual plus size) I can absolutely promise you a 12 is not a plus size.

I agree entirely.

Ophelia, here is your "plus size", "overwieght" size 12 model

http://www.retrovixens.com/products/...red-vixens.jpg

That woman, is NOT plus sized...she is fine. And even if she was! I've seen plenty of beautiful plus sized girls as well, I'm a plus size (uk16) and plenty of people think I'm attractive. Being overweight doesn't suddenly make you a disgusting slob who can't wash and who has to wear bed sheets with a whole cut out the top for your head.

12 is the smallest plus size, and thus the most controversial among them. However, it is still technically a plus size. Google it.

Those thunder thighs would make Zeus jealous.

Why aren't any thin people arguing against the plainly observable fact that 12 is a plus size?

In the modeling/fashion industry size 12 would definitely be considered plus size (and I'm talking Australian size 12, about the same as the UK 12 and smaller than the US 12), but that doesn't necessarily mean 'fat'. Plenty of plus size models don't look the slightest bit overweight because they're well proportioned and healthy. They just don't fit the mould of a fashion coathanger.

That's on models though. I'm pretty sure most 'plus size' clothing stores cater towards the 16-24 crowd, which might be where the confusion arises...?

Clothing size is a completely inaccurate way to describe body type anyway. Too much variation both in the clothes and the bodies that wear them.

I'm sorry but.. WHAT?!

Humans are indeed programmed to dislike what looks unhealthy BUT men are programmed to find the females that can reproduce as much healthy childrens as possible.

You want to talk about primal instincs?

Women with wide hips and large breasts are seen as ( putting it blunt) good 'baby making machines'.

Wide hips for an easy birth and large breasts for feeding the infand.

Since beginning of time men has seen 'fat' girls as the perfect mate.

Women with no fat on them whatsoever are a fashion statement...

You're headed in vaguely the right direction there with all the childbirth stuff, but human sexuality happens to be a teensy bit more complex than that, and in a world of chubby chasers surely thin women would have been bred out of existence by now...


I know from experience that plenty of men still prefer thin women with no boobs. It's the only way I ever got laid.

You're stupid.
I have big tits and hips. I'm also not a fatass.
Fat girls are not a healthy mate, and in fact breed unhealthy babies.

Seriously this argument can carry on forever its a bit like watching a tennis game with balls flying in every direction with only a few that seem to know what they are talking about.
I personally think that it does not matter if you are thin or a size 12/14/16....as long as you are comfortable in your own skin and are healthy .

As for the models issue ,i don't really find that subject interesting.
no offence but it start to be a bit boring.

Indeed. Still, most will argue that size 12 is not plus-sized just because they don't want to be considered plus-sized. That name is so scary. They wouldn't want to be the lard-asses they claim we thin people are calling them.
Seriously, by being so fervently in denial that size 12 is plus-sized, THEY'RE the ones that are saying there's something wrong with it! Otherwise why are they so fixated on pretending it's not a plus size?

That is Masuimi Max (it isn't her best picture but that is clearly her), she is approximately the same size I am which would put her at about a size 4, way to go.

THIS. Go into any shop, and you WILL NOT find size 12 clothing in the plus size areas. Nor will you find it in catalogues.

A 14 could, arguably be considered a plus size, but again it depends on the body proportions. Many ( not all ) women I have seen who are a 14 don't look anything close to being fat or overweight, they basically have wide hips or a large build which no amount of diet and excercise will change.

Wrong again. No one has said that being a plus size is horrific, it's not great but it isn't the end of the universe and can be changed ( which is why I am on a diet myself) No one is pretending a 12 isn't a plus size because IT ISN'T a plus size in any store or catalogue I or anyone else I know has looked in.

On a catwalk they would consider a 12 to be huge but only because all the other models are for the most part, severely underweight for their tall height.

In the real world where people wear normal clothing that isn't a piece of surrealist art, a 12 is not in any way shape or form a plus size.


It isn't any sort of plus size small or large, google does not walk to town or go to work everyday, people with normal vision do.

Clearly something is wrong with your vision if you think the woman in that picture is anything close to being fat or has large thighs. She has a flat stomach, proprtional legs, yes including her thighs and is generally toned.

If you have a fetish for anorexic people that's your business but keep your innacurate observations of body mass in your own head, you're just making a fool of yourself on a subject you clearly know bugger all about.

So I started up Internet Explorer and the first thing the Guardian website greeted me with was

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandsty...-and-wellbeing

Creepy.

She's a 14, not a 12. A 14 can be classed as the smaller end of plus size, but not a 12. And anyone who weighs roughly more than 6 and a half stone will be classed as gargantuan by catwalk fashion designers. These people do not live in reality.

Well would you look at that.... And considering her height, she wouldn't look remotely fat or overweight. She most likely isn't. And before anyone even starts on the picture included at the top of the article, she doesn't have a gut, look at the way she's standing with her back arched.

If she's 5'9 and 12 stone she's right on the border of being overweight.

Yes but even so, she looks perfectly normal and proportional . She could lose 2 stone and the catwalks would still consider her to be massive and she blatantly isn't.

http://images.fashionmodeldirectory....l_renn-fit.jpg

You're not convincing me that she doesn't look chubby. If she's happy the way she is, great, but she's undeniably chunky.

Yes she's big in that one, and the article said she has gone up to a UK 18 which is most likely when that particular picture was taken.

But plenty of the others show a perfectly normal sized woman.

http://www.judgmentofparis.com/cr/crystal42.jpg

http://www.judgmentofparis.com/cr/crystal04.jpg

No fat rolls or lumps visible and appears toned. Those aren't airbrushed very well if at all.

Nah, I think she looks a little tubby there too.

In which case you need a vision test regardless of your taste in women. You can't possibly tell me that toned is the same as chubby or fat. She has no gut, no side roll and no flabby underarms or legs .

No...I'd say she looks chubby, too.
Not gross, not FAT, but she does not look healthy.

It's the thighs. If you put some twigs in between her legs she'd be able to start a fire with that chafing.

Wow, I used to think I was too harsh on my standards of fatness...

That Crystal chick looks fine, and I doubt she'll be keeling over from diabetes or hypertension any time soon either. But I don't like how that article on her implied that thin people don't eat.

I just used a few basic BMI calculators. I know these are not absolutely bang on accurate to the last .0 of a lb, but as an average guide they are fine. Using her as an example I put in her height and weight. 5'9 and 12 stone ( 150lbs approx) .

Her BMI has come out at 22.1 WELL within the healthy normal range ( 18.5-24.9 ) for her height. 22.19 on another site. Still well within normal range for a healthy person.

I'll try another..

22. Normal weight.


You guys aren't doing very well at this . Even at my weight of 14 and a half stone my thighs barely chafe. So I'd hazard a guess she has no trouble with it.

Where the fuck are you getting 150lbs? There's 14 pounds in a stone, she's 168lbs, BMI of 24.9 I believe.

Online calculator for weight and mass. And 24.9 still puts her in the healthy weight range so you're still wrong. Even if she's a couple of lbs over it's hardly going to mean she's categorically unhealthy and about to drop dead of obesity, she also isn't anything close to fat. So yet again you are wrong.

People that are talking bollocks about other people. I.e. Solumina + fake tits comments. Thus proving that they possess relatively unsatisfying lives.

It puts her in the healthy weight range by a single point, hence she is on the border of being overweight, which is precisely what I said in the first place.

Yes she's on the border, but not over. And yet again I say that she has no visible rolls or lumps and is toned. And yet again even if she lost 2 stone or so she would still be considered massive by the catwalk industry and most of the people in this thread it seems.

Nah, 10 stone would be a good weight for her height. Perhaps even a couple of pounds over. Crying and saying that 5'9 and 12 stone being deemed on the pudgy side is disgraceful is just dumb though.

Honeythorn, there's no need to get so defensive.
We didn't ever say it was gross or terrible. Just not ideal, which it's not.

I'm not being defensive I'm being factual. She isn't fat in any sense of the word. It's not my problem none of you can see what's in front of your face.

And a size 12 still isn't anything close to being a plus size outside of the catwalk. It simply isn't.