See -- and they wonder why so many minorities have the self esteem issues that we do. We are constantly told we are criminals by our surroundings and how we are treated. I was an army brat and I travelled all over. I recall going to a n all white school that had new books, new tables and the like.

We moved and I attended an all black school.

The books were torn, some of them without covers-- one desk had no top -- and the teacher was DRINKING while teaching class (out of a Pepsi bottle but it was evident that the clear liquid wasn't soda or water...)

How do you teach value to kids when they are told all the time they have no value and have to be feared...

That is not to say that rural white areas don't have crappy schools -- I just found that almost every black school I went to had such conditions...


Your friend should be upheld and applauded not torn down...

Sad...

We turn on one another and wonder why we can't move forward -- calling people wannabe and whitewashed when we try to succeed -- I have had this happen to me.

Why can't we look at it as, I am a part of a mass culture as well as my own, acknowledge and respect this and not degrade it...

And you are right, for ever so called "brotha" that mocked me for how I spoke and my desires, there was one saying "Go ahead sistah -- represent!"

We need to be more nuturing...

Hmmmm...

I seen two sides of the fence from my experiences.

When I was in the military, it was absurd to be racist. You couldn't be. You were punished severely for it.

During boot camp, they didn't tolerate anyone who thought they had to "represent" their hood, overly country or overly what ever. If you shown any amount of pride for what ever you thought you belonged to, you were pretty much punished for it or you learned to keep your self pride quiet in the spirit of keeping the team together.

What I found surprising was when I moved to Louisville. The lines between racism and classism are fairly blurred and though you aren't in any immediate danger for being a certain race, you are or can be for what class you belong to.

The upper class streets don't want me around because I appear poor or eccentric, but the ghettos are dangerous for me because I may not be "gangsta" enough or whatever it is. It's so bad that there's parts of town I should never step foot in because they will straight kill me. Then the middle class either hates me or loves me, depending on their political or social slant. Conservative middle class wants nothing to do with me. So that pretty much pigeonholes me in a place I'd rather not be.

I can only imagine it being much worse in larger cities.

Then again, I live in the south and there's lots of blacks who think that it's okay for them to be racist because white people did it first.

I find this to be weird because I'm predominantly Irish with some Native American. When I'm faced with racism because I'm white, I find it odd because it was the indentured servants (mostly Irish), that taught the slaves how to read and write and you can't get much whiter than Irish.

I dig you rae your cool XD!



Because of my appearance people are unsure of exactly what I am…….I some times make people guess its funny some of the things I’ve heard I’ve been mistaken for half Chinese….

When I go to florida people think I Mexican, I don’t look very Mexican but I do use the slang allot……apparently people call Mexicans “dead fish? As a racial insult… I was really ready to fight the person who said this, even though im not Mexican it still hurt in a way……..

I think im relatively racially aware….I cant be racist towards any race really because Im mixed with every fucking thing except Asian but im Polynesian which is close-ish…..
I like being mixed it makes me some what unique and It gives me a “look” . If Iever travel abroad I will never admit im American I will claim Mexico…

Do you notice that racial jokes are usually “okay” if said by a member of that race? Sometimes me and my friends will sit around and just make stupid racial jokes about the stereo types…

We were walking back to my friend joeys (he’s Mexican) house and it was raining and out of the blue he says “why is my back so wet????!!”. It was just so incredibly funny at the moment ……. We have to be careful of who we say stuff like this around because people do sometimes get offended .
I don’t really mind the jokes as long as they are not cruel or mean hearted…..usually they come from my friends but maybe I would feel different if it came from someone I didn’t like….



Do you have yahoo messager?

So on another note, I feel that the racism in the United States was a misunderstanding of the times.

I don't believe it was about race at all, but about class and always has been about class. Back then, a rich white man would have hated my guts because I was a poor white man.

bound_soul_reaper@y ah00 DOT com.

Kotan I believe there is a huge difference between a poor white man/woman and a white with money…..Its all about how and were you grew up………..
Some types of whit are not even considered white by allot of people for example Italian is thought by most people not to be “standard white” I would have to agree with that some what……I don’t care what race you are if you’re my comrade you’re my comrade its more about culture and class then actual skin color to me…

I don’t have a problem with Irish people most of them (the ones I know ) are cool people….. I quite like the accent my immigrant friends have but I cant imitate it at all …….
As for Irish servants teaching blacks to read.. Most people don’t know the real history of it….in most schools here they teach you Harriet Tubman, Martin Luther King, Malcolm X and that’s about it. Most kids don’t learn shit about anything vaguely resembling the truth

Is tha your y ahoo or s that rae's?

The Irish, and many of my ancestors, wer eindentured servants suped into slavery. They thought they had signed for 7 years for passage to the US, their illiteracy cost them their's life's freedom. The the Emancipation Proclaimation did not free them. Not did it free Northern Blacks.


On a side note, I have a black friend who is a first generation american-she feels odd, being Black, but not having the shared history of slavery. She does not get the anger and pain, she doesn not get the "reparations" for something over a 100 years ago.

I don't get a funeral for a word, the "n word"- i hate that phrase. We know the word, dammit. As waste of time and energy because pople let something have power over them. I don't let "ho" get me down, nor Mic, nor Wagonburner, nor anything. I don't see why it is a big deal when you can keep your power by not letting a owrd win.

I have heard many theory’s about as you called it the “N word”. I have said this word before and allot when I was younger and didn’t understand it…

One person told me it is okay to say nigga because it is referring to the feeling that we as black people are still slaves on many levels and on a global level a corporate level , he could explain it better than I can.

To me the “N word” has a different effect depending on who says it and how its said….
To be honest I wouldn’t take offence if I was called a ****** by a black person….

Often times I feel like when some one says “that’s my nigga” its like a term of member ship, it means we got screwed for our race, and we aint got no money, and people hate us but were in it together. You might not understand that….


There is a difference between the word “******” and the word “nigga”

a big difference

I have an Italian friend, and, in affection, we call each other "Mick" and "Daigo". We like to make fun of the fact that a lot of the time the Irish and the Italians have issues.

Kontan, what army were -you- in? (Looks around base and sees no evidence of what you describe)

I was in the United States Navy. Why?

The US Army appears to have no such doctrines.You would not believe what I've heard out of the mouths of some of these boys.

You can tell when a "bad" word is a familiar and used if jest- you just have to know your audience. My secretary operates under the title HNIC. And I am her pet cracker. This is all fine and funny as hell when HR visits, poor fools.

But as far as these terms being used a a pejorative, i don't get it.

1) Insulting what you see- race, gender, size, etc is so easy a caveman could do it (wakka, wakka, wakka). It takes intelligence to insult intelligence. Haveing someon actually insult your intelligene hurts. Someone calling me a bitch is pedestrian.

2) Taking any word personally lets the speaker win. So you don't like the word? The more time you spend on it, the mor etime you dwell, is time away from something you'd much rather be doing. Liek Tha Duckaman's mom.

Instead of a "funeral" for the N word, how about a fundraiser for inner city schools ot Big Brothers Big Sisters? Symbolic acts mean nothing. Actual acts make impace.

KontanKarite, I agreed with a lot of what you said until the misunderstanding about racism part, Jim Crow segregation was very race specific and institutionalized -- it said black people and white people couldn't even sit in the same lunch room together -- or marry. People got arrested for using a white toilet. Of using the front entrance to a theater. Sure, if you were white trash, you were looked down on -- but if white trash killed a black boy in those days -- it was largely looked over or covered up --

I recall a story of a white sheriff who was the first to stand up against racist white police department to investigate the wrongful death of a black mother.

She had been returning home from work when a group of young white guys ***** and killed her.

It took years, and her children were grown, but he finally got justice for the woman -- and the sheriff and the woman's son are now good friends bonded by the experience.

As for words-- I agree to an extent that they are only as you see them, but I feel everyone has a right to define what they will or will not accept. Example, I don't mind being called a Bitch -- but I have never used the "n" word -- don't like it, never used it, and don't want to hear it, for my own purposes.

There are some who don't care.

That's fine.

I happen to care.

Thats' fine too.

Right. I know that for certain. It DOES happen. The military is far from perfect. In fact, I wouldn't even use the military as any example of ideal for that matter.

Yeah, anyone rember what happened with the Lovings? They had to fight the whole state of Virginia. (A good surname for that particular case)

I agree, though I'm of the mind classism came first.

you know -- true when you consider the European castes system, but I think the difference is with castes it wasn't that they didn't think you were human, but more that they used ill gotten power to subjegate people ...with blacks, they told people we were a sub species of human and designed the culture on that lie...

I wish everyone could get past all this crap. It's a shame we still even need to have this argument. I'm not saying we should all blend into one race, because we shouldn't.
Let me clarify. I am white and Native American. Honestly, a lot of old and new black culture is interesting to me, but a lot of it is confusing as well. That's ok. In fact, it's a good thing.
I'll make a different example--I think most people can agree that a race related cultural thing that is odd is the Chinese tradition of foot binding. It's odd to people who aren't part of that culture. But that, too, is a good thing.

I think it's good to not understand parts of other cultures, because it's their culture. The thing is, you have to respect those other cultures, and understand that just because you don't understand (or like) it, doesn't mean someone else doesn't.

Am I babbling?

(nods) Yes, you are.

Well, the gist of it I stand by.

I think what I meant to say was salad bowl>melting pot.

Ah, okay. I got a bit lost and just gave up, but -now- I get what you were going for.

I agree with Ophelia -- unfortunately there is so much crap still happening on the under currents that we still have to have a dialog about it. Example. I was a child when Jim Crow segregation ended. My Dad fought in Vietnam and was told to sit in the back of the bus fro his trouble. Even after laws were passed, my sister, Dad and I were told to enter the back of a movie theater so as not to freak out white patrons who were not yet used to the change....

It is still evolving, if we stop the dialog now we stop prematurely. I think the newer generations, will eventually move past the past -- but to some it is still too fresh. The dinosaurs of the old regime have to die off -- and we should be sure never to forget but to forgive the wounds on both sides and move on so we can solidify as a nation, respecting, as you said, one another's cultures, even if we don't get it.

Until then it is still relevant -- we have to be honest and open about the past or we are dooemd to repeat it...

Very well said Rae van..........

We white men flee from such defensive displays. Snakes and spiders we can brave, but the dreaded lateral head-bob would unnerve even Steve Irwin, god rest his soul.

lol............