To say that a 12 size is overweight or not you REALLY have to take height and bone structure into consideration.

To make it a stereotypical thing to say that a size 12 is just overweight and you can`t argue about it is ridiculous... Just like the whole fashion industry...

Honeythorn, you just said a 14 is plus sized.
How would a size 12, the next size down, not be anything even close?

As HavelockV has said, the a US 12 is equivalent to a UK 14. I suppose you live in the UK.

Honeythorn, this may come as a shock, but Google is not a robot. It's the aggregate knowledge of hundreds of millions of people. Google plus size, and you'll see UK stores selling clothes 14+, and US stores selling clothes 12+.

Okay, Honeythorn, I get that you're--to be gentle--quite a large woman, and consequently prefer that the definition of 'fat' be as exclusive as possible. You claim you aren't being defensive, but there's no 'factual' cause to dismiss my statements as those of someone with 'a fetish for anorexic people'.
I said that a woman who fits a size 12 is unattractively large. There are 12 fucking sizes between that and anorexic. You're not being 'factual'. You're being bitter about your own weight.

Not everyone who is a UK size 14 is hugely 'fat'. However, this depends entirely on how tall they are. I, for example, at a size 14 looked massive because I'm only just over five feet tall. Most plus size shops in the UK that I have been in, stock clothes from a 16 upwards, on the other hand, other stores class a 14 as being plus size. Whether or not a woman looks fat also depends on how toned she is, people I know who are fairly slim look bigger than they really are because they aren't toned, myself included.

If you just don't don't find larger women attractive that's fine, it's no different to me being more attracted to men with dark hair than I am to men with blond hair.

UK stores don't put clothes of a size 14 in the plus sized section ( and a UK 14 is highly questionable as a plus size ) . Even size 16 clothes aren't kept in the plus sized section depsite them actually being a plus size.

No. I couldn't care a pigs fart for for the definition of fat to be "as exclusive as possible" As a fat person I know fat when I see it, and a UK 14 is far from it wthout having to compare a woman of that size to myself. Which pisses on your fire.

Excluding disability or illnesses, I make and accept no excuses for people (or myself) being fat. People like that piss me off even more than people like you.

Being bitter about my weight would indicate that I don't take responsibilty for my own obesity, and there you couldn't more wrong if you tried. I know how I got fat ( oddly enough I ate too much how shocking ) and I'm changing it.

I would be very happy indeed to be size 12 and I know damn well I wouldn't be a plus size if I was one. A size 10-12 is a normal size for someone my height. And I know I'll be able to get away with a 14 as well due to my shape as even I am aware I'm not too badly proportioned even at the size I am now.

I used to be enormous, and my opinion of what's fat clearly differs from yours, having experience of being fat doesn't say shit for your ability to define what is fat and what isn't.

Honeythorn, how do you rationalize not caring a 'pigs fart' about the definition of 'fat' and then claiming that GM has a 'fetish for anorexic people' just because he doesn't use your definition?

this is a plus size model.
http://thetrendsetter.files.wordpres.../crystal26.jpg

here a few references:

1.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plus-size_model

2.http://telepicturesblog.warnerbros.c...ize_model.html

What Is A Plus-Size Model?

Plus-Size Model Plus-size models participate in a variety of modeling jobs including print work, runway shows, and fit or informal modeling. Fashion modeling is the category aspiring models usually think of when they dream of being a model. Fashion plus modeling can include a magazine cover or layout, representing a plus-size manufacturer in print advertisements, or strutting down the catwalk in the latest Lane Bryant lingerie.

Requirements Can Include:

Between 5'8" and 6'0"
5'9" is pretty much minimum for larger markets though Wilhelmina in NYC does represent a few girls who are 5'7" and 5'8".

Size 12, 14, 16
Sizes 10 and 18/20 are also used, but are not as common.

Toned
You may be a "plus size," but you may have to be in shape if you model swimwear, lingerie or fitness gear.

Proportionate
You should be in proportion. Your bust, waist and hips should be about ten inches apart in size (i.e. 42-32-42) or very close. In addition, the shorter you are, the smaller your size should be. Someone who is 5'8" would be expected to wear a smaller size (12/14) than a taller model. It is all about length and proportion.

When looking for an agency to represent you, ask if they represent plus-size or commercial models. If they do, ask what their height and size requirements are. If you fit their requirements, ask to schedule an interview or find out if they have open calls. If you live a distance away from the agency, do a mail-in with your pictures and information.

To find out when Wilhelmina Models is conducting their next search for a plus size model, visit www.wilhelminaportfolios.com

3.http://plussize.about.com/od/plussiz...ecomemodel.htm

Plus Size Modeling Requirements

While you may need to fit into a certain size to become a plus model, that's not all. Plus models are generally 5'8" to 6' in height, and wear a size 10 and up.

Other guidelines include:

* A proportional figure
*
* Shapely legs

Note: Fit models may be required in larger sizes or shorter heights than standard plus-size modeling, and it’s worth inquiring when you call agencies.

FUCK YEAH! we won.


Plus, ANTM's one plus-sized winner was size 10.

Honeythorn, UK size 16=US size 12.

No you didn't

A us 12 is a uk 14.


http://www.onlineconversion.com/clothing_womens.htm

http://www.usatourist.com/english/ti...ens-Sizes.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clothing_sizes

http://www.asknumbers.com/ClothingWomensConversion.aspx

No, they definitely still won.

Why not? blacktext

You are right, having been fat or being fat doesn't give anyone a better ability to judge what is fat or not. I do think though,that sometimes when a person is big, or has been big, it can distort their idea of what exactly defines that state. I found that to be true personally,though I can't really speak for anyone else.

No they think they won because on a CATWALK full of anorexic people who are an abnormal size for their height , a size 12 would indeed look large in comparison and yet isn't a plus size . In reality it isn't anything close. If you saw one of the women I work with you'd understand why. She isn't massively tall (5'7 approx) , not amazingly toned and is a size 12-14. There's no fat rolls, no huge legs, she's perfectly normal sized. And she isn't unusual in that regard.

Catwalk style opinons are often where the misinformation being touted often arises. I mean seriously, Tyra Banks and fucking Wikipedia?

Do any of you go out and use the eyeballs you were born with?

Look Honeythorn, they still won. A US size 12 is a plus size, so stop crying.

I'm not I'm fuckng laughing my fat ass off. How far off they are is actually that funny.

But they're not far off, because a US size 12 IS a plus size.

A US 12 is a UK 14 which can only really be classed as a plus size at all if the woman is really quite short or unfortunate in her proprtions. A UK 12 is definitely not a plus size by any stretch of the imagination.

It's a good job most people with a sense of proprtion don't go by the rules of the catwalk and the opinions of Alan and Gothicus, or a vast proportion of the worlds normal sized people would be burned at the stake for having the immense audacity to own an ass, and not look like they're about to disintegrate if they lift more than a chihuaua in a handbag whilst chewing thin air.

Jesus Christ, this thread has made me hate you. Do you hear yourself? You're so fucking insecure that you try to be a bitch as a form of argument.

Good thing WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT A FUCKING UK SIZE 12 then isn't it?

No indeed, a uk 14 is a US 12 and still not visually a plus size (ergo, fat) unless the woman is short or badly proportioned.

Shut up already.

Dude, you're really being an asshole now.
First of all, what do you mean by normal? If it's "common," then sure, go with that. It's common to be a fat ass. If it's "acceptable," fine. It's becoming more and more ok to be unhealthy.

Also, don't dare saying anyone said it was BAD to be fat. No one said that. They either said they don't personally find it attractive, or that it's unhealthy.

Lastly, fuck you for thinking that if you aren't a fat ass you're stick thin.
Guess what? I'm not fat, and I'm also not anorexic.

I am of a normal, healthy weight. Men and women alike find me attractive. I can run miles. I STILL have T&A.
So just leave that shit out.

I neither think nor said this.


Crystal renn is a normal healthy weight for her height yet you yourself have said she looks unhealthy and JCC reckons she has massive legs when she clearly doesn't. Look at her before and after.

http://www.mahalo.com/crystal-renn

I know which one looks unhealthy and it isn't the bottom set of pictures that's for sure.

I think the dispute came about because in clothing stores plus size usually means the speciality sizes, for really large people, 12 can't be a speciality size obviously since its the most common size. From a model perspective plus size seems to just mean not skinny but shapely, but not necessarily fat, in contrast to the norm of having thin models. It makes sense when you think about it that way.

They are BOTH unhealthy.

Honeythorn, you're seriously fucking stupid. You can't take a picture of someone who's a size 0 and someone who's a size 12 and then say because size 0 is unhealthy, size 12 is healthy. We get it, you're fat, don't let it cloud your judgment.

http://www.usatourist.com/english/ti...ens-Sizes.html.

Women's Dresses and Suits (Misses Sizes)
European 32 34 36 38 40 42 44 46 48 50
UK 4 6 8 10 12 14 16 18 20 22
Japan 5 7 9 11 13 15 17 19 21 23
USA 2 4 6 8 10 12 14 16 18 20
USA LETTER XS S S M M L L XL 1X 2X


Women's Dresses and Suits (Junior Sizes)
European 28 30 32 34 36 38 40 42
UK 3 5 7 9 11 13 15 17
Japan 0 2 4 6 8 10 12 14
USA 1 3 5 7 9 11 13 15


Women's Blouses & Sweaters
European 40 42 44 46 48 50 53
UK 34 36 38 40 42 44 46
USA 32 34 36 38 40 42 44


USA Women's Size Standards
US Sizes 2 4 6 8 10 12 14 16 18 20
Bust (inches) 32 ½ 33 ½ 34 ½ 35 ½ 36 ½ 38 39 ½ 41 43 45
Waist (inches) 24 25 26 27 28 29 ½ 31 32 ½ 34 ½ 36 ½
Hip (inches) 34 ½ 35 ½ 36 ½ 37 ½ 38 ½ 40 41 ½ 43 45 47
Bust (cm) 82 ½ 85 87 ½ 90 92 ½ 96 ½ 100 ½ 104 109 114
Waist (cm) 61 63 ½ 66 68 ½ 71 75 79 82 ½ 87 ½ 93
Hip (cm) 87 ½ 90 93 95 98 101 ½ 105 ½ 109 114 119


Women's Bra Sizes
European 85A - DD 90B - F 95B - F 100B - F 105B - F 110B - F
UK 32B - DD 34B - F 36B - F 38B - F 40B - F 42B - F
Japan A - D70 A - F75 A - F80 A - F85 A - F90 A - F95
USA 32A - D 34A - F 36A - F 38A - F 40A - F 42A - F


Women's Shoes
European 35 35 ½ 36 37 37 ½ 38 38 ½ 39 40 41 42
UK 2 ½ 3 3 ½ 4 4 ½ 5 5 ½ 6 6 ½ 7 7 ½
Japan 21 21 ½ 22 22 ½ 23 23 ½ 24 24 ½ 25 25 ½ 26
USA 5 5 ½ 6 6 ½ 7 7 ½ 8 8 ½ 9 9 ½ 10

Personally, I would regard a woman whose figure falls about midway between the two extremes to be more physically attractive and 'healthy' than either set of images.

I also could not help but notice the rather obvious use of professional-quality lighting, backdrop, and makeup in the second set, which presents a more polished, flawless vision than the amateur snapshots exhibited by the first set.

This is not to say that I believe Miss Renn in her former state would appear more beautiful than Miss Renn in her current state if photographed in a similar fashion. I am merely stating that to use these two sets of photos as examples of the differences between the two sizes is not necessarily a fair comparison of 'healthiness'.

http://cravingideas.blogs.com/backin..._358x450_1.jpg


size 0:
http://img.metro.co.uk/i/pix/2009/04...SP_450x350.jpg

size 12:

http://www.harpersbazaar.com.au/asse...09_Curvy06.jpg

Actually, I had previously posted a link to the original article featuring the two models wearing the metallic swimsuit in this thread.

https://www.gothic.net/boards/showpo...1&postcount=41

That is a case where I will agree that both sizes received an equal treatment and I did say that I found the size 12 model to be the more attractive of the two.

But even still...a size 6 would be more attractive.

I've always known you were insecure, but only now do I realize that you are, in fact, thoroughly demented. Your capacity for reason seems to be completely nil.
In this thread, I've said that 12 (US) is a plus size, which it demonstrably is, and has been established to be, multiple times by multiple people throughout the course of this discussion. Moreover, I've said that the size 12 women whose images appear in this thread are unattractively large.
You replied to this by declaring that you know 12 isn't a plus size, despite lacking a basis for that belief, and that if I think Crystal Renn has chunky thighs, I must have a fetish for anorexic people.
In response I told you to simply look through clothing stores online, which largely (no pun intended, except retroactively) consider size 12 to be plus size, and that I found many, say, size 5 and 6 women, who certainly can't be classed as anorexic, to be very good looking.
Now, not only do you cling tenaciously to the still groundless belief that 12 isn't a plus size, but you say I, in addition to only digging anorexics, in fact want to murder anyone with an ass.
Does this sound anything less than fucking psychotic to you?
Throughout this conversation I've made an obvious effort to sidle around your vulnerable feelings, but I seem to have struggled in vain, because you aren't just massively (hah) insecure about your weight. Your self-loathing, fed (lol) by years of loneliness, has ballooned (rofl) into a worryingly irrational persecution complex-- you believe the world, through the agency of 'people like' me and Alan, is 'out to get' fat people. This 'debate' on size 12 came about because you've flung yourself completely into the ardent hope that if you can get down to that size yourself, you will be free from the pernicious attentions of this societal imperative to hate and murder those considered large. The idea that you might still be viewed as fat after you've achieved that great feat is one you desperately reject.

I am not quite certain if that was addressed to me, Miss Ophelia, but if it was then I respectfully refer you to the first statment I made the post above that of Creature6. My preference for the size 12 swimsuit model was for that particular case only, and given only the choice between the two extremes.

Who? Havelock's size 12 (uk) model looks pretty good and would probably look really bad if she cut her size that dramatically.

That's sort of pointless to say because there's no evidence to support or go against it.

Okay...I can understand arguing points and it getting heated. That however is cruel and downright nasty. It's not funny, at all. I'm actually disgusted that someone would actually go that low.

I would say this to anyone who decided to get personal on any point in any discussion this is not because "OMGZ! I need to protect the fat club!" you don't need to go for the low blow to make yourself look "cool" and "intelligent". It doesn't. It makes you look like an arse.

Yeah, you won, well done.

That post was amazing. It's sad when you cannot appreciate its humor, and a little infuriating that you feel yourself in a position to reprimand him but didn't even raise an eyebrow when honeythorn accused him of having a "fetish for anorexics" and wanting to burn all the fat people on earth.

It wasn't amazing and it wasn't funny.

Saying that someone has a fetish for anorexics and wanting to burn fat people is a little different to taking the complete piss out of something someone has potentially struggled with for years. Practically writing an essay on how insecure they are and proper going in for the low blow.

The difference between someone saying something silly like "you have an anorexic fetish" and "LOL! you're insecure and have issues with your weight that you struggle with! I'm gunna make you look an inch tall!" Is quite massive.

Obviously Honeythorn should've thought before she accused him of those things because they are silly, but those accusations are minor compared to an essay written about a real personal problem she may have. That is deep, really deep. Can you actually not see the difference?

Yes, I see the difference.
I'm right and she's wrong. It's not my fault that honeythorn's statements are 'silly'-- she believes they're just as legitimate as mine.

Why walk on eggshells just because she's in denial?

Aren't you being the one doing the real damage by being a pussy and feeding her lies instead of actually being truthful while defending your honor at the same time?

I'm not feeding her lies. Anyone who is overweight is always made to feel very, VERY aware of their shortcomings. People who are overweight don't NEED to have people be in their face about it because the fact that you are is not a fact you can escape very easily and you're always going through the motions about it. I'm not being a pussy, I'm being empathic, having empathy makes you human. Not a pussy. I know what it's like and I've had someone do exactly the same to me concerning my weight. Did it help me? No. It gave me more crap to feel bad about. Being truthful and being cruel are different things as well. If a friend came up to me and talked to me about it, honestly...I wouldn't have felt bad. If someone came up to me and used it against me as a way to win an argument, which they did and proper dug it in...I would have felt bad. Which is what someone did and it really hurt, it didn't make me think they were just helping me by being honest. They were just using it to make themselves look big and me look small.

So we should let HER insult us with ludicrous assumptions and not retaliate because she might feel bad about her weight.
Got it.

No. You're missing the point.

You CAN retaliate. I just think it's in extremely poor taste to go that personal and that low on someone. Why is it hard to understand?

This thread is STILL rolling? Why does it still matter how fat/thin someone is?

Also, has anyone mentioned Hitler yet, or killing all members of the opposite group with something rather unpleasant?

Yeap, read my third to last post.

Ah ok. Then the thread should be over...

So a fat chick gets bitchy and accuses all slender people of anorexia and accuses all people that find slender people to be more attractive of some sort of deep emotional trauma that has led them to have an irrational desire for skeletal freaks, and then you're not allowed to tell this fat chick that she should shut the fuck up because she's clearly just getting pissy due to the issue coming a little too close to home (although over that stomach, I'm not sure just how close anything could really get)?

Alright people. Listen, and listen good. I'm only going to say this once.

NEITHER ONE OF YOU ARE RIGHT. Period. There is no "oh, honeythorn, poor thing. she's fat." FUCK THAT. what, she wins the argument simply because of her fucking weight? bullshit. BULL. SHIT. and there's no "oh, gothicusmaximus, poor guy. she called him a fetishist."

what it all boils down to is that everyone has their own personal opinion of beauty. just because gothicusmaximus like skinny chicks doesn't mean he has a fetish for anorexia. what the fuck, who does that? but that doesn't mean you should thoroughly tear her apart because of her weight, either. that's like saying someone can't have a good argument simply because they're gay or a certain religion or something. it's just what you are. period.

i personally take great offense when someone assumes that everyone who is overweight is that way because of laziness, or obsession with food. personally, i am big because i have medical problems. i have issues with my thyroid and various other things which lead to being overweight, a diet and exercise can only do so much. i'm still a big girl, and short of gastric bypass surgery there isn't much i can do. i always have been and always will be big. and that's how it is.

basically, here's what i'm saying. both honeythorn and gothicusmaximus are wrong.

honeythorn: just because someone doesn't find you attractive because of your weight doesn't make them a fetishist. say, for shits and giggles, that you prefer blondes. if someone said you were a freak for not liking dark hair, wouldn't that piss you off? i think it would. beauty is in the eye of the beholder. it's life, darlin, get a backbone.

gothicusmaximus: weeding out someone's most potent insecurity and feeding on that is never, EVER the way to defend yourself or make a point. are we in second grade? seriously. "don't talk to cindy, she's UGLY." just because honeythorn is large does not mean her opinion is any less meaningful. what the fuck? okay, so you get bothered because she's big and can't see how skinny girls are preferrable to some guys. fine. but you didn't rebute, you simply burned her for no reason. no, you're not a fetishist. what you are is an asshole for saying things like that.