I didn't mean that the systems are the answer to everything, and if a woman isn't ready for a child, she should have thought about that beforehand, though I do realize that sometimes condoms split. If someone wants sex, they should use more than one precaution (birth control and a condom). It's up to all of us to make sure that coat hanger "accident" doesn't happen, because every child deserves a chance. Don't even try that 'it's only a pile of embryonic tissue' crap.

This is a very good example of what I've been thinking lately and what I've been trying to express to everyone.

We can't stop the coat hanger scenario. Its going to happen. All throughout history there has been abortion. There was a point where the Vatican thought it was okay because you didn't get a soul until a certain time in pregnancy. In Thailand they have this "massage" they can do on your stomach, its painful and it takes a few days but it detatches the placenta from the womb wall. There have been myriad methods of abortion over the history of mankind.

And for two types of birth control, even that isn't a surefire thing. Not many people I'm guessing will say "wait, I can't have sex, I'm not ready for a child." before they start having sex. Usually they will just think "well I gotta prevent that from happening." but it doesn't work. Then what?

And its not like people who have abortions take it as a casual thing. All the women I know who had them still think about it a lot, while they don't regret it they say its gonna be something they will think about for the rest of their lives. Its not an easy thing to do.

I know women and teens who had abortions and don't think about it at all except to say they're glad they didn't have to have the kid, but I also know women like you know who think about it all the time.

Why the hell is no one responding to what I said?

For teens I think it seems more one sided, you know? Like "Oh shit what am I gonna say to Mom." I know a thirteen year old who had an abortion, she never told her parents a thing, and she did it mostly out of fear of what they would say or do. Another friend, one of the ones I mentioned who think about it a lot, was 16 at the time and was very torn about it, she told everyone she had a miscarriage afterwards out of shame. She has a baby now though, she's very happy.

No matter it what, it comes down to that no one has the right to tell a scared girl or woman that she has to have the baby. I myself do believe it is murder, and I know I wouldn't be able to do it, but I shouldn't force my subjective view on someone else, and I just try my best to put myself in their shoes.

HAHA.

Women AND teens.

Well, I wouldn't say teens are women. I just don't think we truely have the maturity and development to be considered adults yet. (I am 15.)

Well, not really. A 16 year old actually said to me, "I thank God I didn't have to get stretch marks." when I wanted to know why she did it.

No, but not wanting to go through the stress and trauma of a full-term pregnancy seems like a fine reason to me.

Honestly I'd find it hard to believe that that was her main reason.

Considering some of the girls I've met, that reason wouldn't surprise me all that much.

It might not have been her only reason, but I'm pretty sure it was her main reason. The more I talked to her, the more concieted (sp?) she sounded.

Hey, on the topic of abortion a bill was just passed in the state of Victoria legalising abortions up to 24 weeks.

Hmmm... just a clump of cells at six fucking months?

I'm totally pro-choice, but damn, I'd hope anything carried out that late has some VERY good medical reasons backing it.

If you engage in an activity KNOWING the risks beforehand, you should be an adult and handle the consequences.

That's...fucked up.
I don't support that.

In Canada you can abort at any time, from conception to nine months. I do not support that, Christ you can give birth and put it up for adoption, you'll have to go through a birth anyway, but its unheard of to abort after three months unless the mother or baby is sick.

Is there any kind of clause in the law stating that anything after a certain term must have a medical reason or is it just anything up to 24 weeks is legal?

So, even with contraceptives in use, one shouldn't have sex without being 100% ready to have a baby?

I'm pretty sure it's anything up to 24 weeks, no medical reasons necessary.

It was certainly passed under good intentions: women's rights to choose what happens to their bodies and prevention of harmful backyard abortions, but I can only hope it doesn't get taken advantage of by idiots who just decide at 6 months they don't want a kid. Also, since tests for things like Downs Syndrome can be done before 24 weeks, I can imagine a majority of the late abortions will be of foetuses diagnosed with those conditions. I don't even know what to think of that.

For the record, McDonald's is not always harmful. I'd say 90% of the time you shouldn't be having it, but if you're actually at an extremely high level of activity the crazy amount of calories can actually be beneficial from time to time.

A prefect example is Micheal Phelps, or a Thru-Hiker. When I was on the trail I was burning 6000+ calories per day. It was impossible to eat enough. In this instance, McDonald's food was actually healthy for me, and kept me from dropping dangerously underweight.

But yeah, unless your metabolism is moving at the rate of a professional athlete, you probably should lay off the Big Macs.

No, but I think these people should be able to deal with the consequences without ending a life.

If you're financially unstable, you should be allowed to have sex, yes, because if you can't afford a baby, you can give it up.

If you don't want to deal with the "trauma and stress" of having a baby, don't have sex.

Dude.
No it wasn't.

Having a shit ton of calories didn't make it healthy. It just meant you could eat less and get more out of it.

It was still packed with fat, salt, and cholesterol.

I don't think that's very reasonable, given human sexual dynamics. And I wouldn't downplay the amount of trauma involved in pregnancy, either.

Anyways, it's all going to come back to the "it is a person?" question that we both will always disagree on, which is the main reason I'm largely over any abortion debate.

..and at that point, fat and salt was what my system was severely lacking (not sure about the Cholestorol).

If you're drinking over nine liters of water per day and still ending up needing more, if your clothes are so sweat-soaked that a black shirt literally turns white, and you can't carry enough food to keep your salt and fat levels where they need to be (There was a point where I lost 40 lbs in as many days.), McDonald's is a welcome change.

Now even then, if I was eating it every day, it would've been very bad for me, But once a week, it was all that kept some guys going.

Back in the 80's (before backpacking foods were readily available) Thru-hikers used to drink Parkay straight just to keep from burning off all their fat. Even today, some people finish the whole thing looking like Heroine addicts they've lost so much weight.