I think the dispute came about because in clothing stores plus size usually means the speciality sizes, for really large people, 12 can't be a speciality size obviously since its the most common size. From a model perspective plus size seems to just mean not skinny but shapely, but not necessarily fat, in contrast to the norm of having thin models. It makes sense when you think about it that way.

They are BOTH unhealthy.

Honeythorn, you're seriously fucking stupid. You can't take a picture of someone who's a size 0 and someone who's a size 12 and then say because size 0 is unhealthy, size 12 is healthy. We get it, you're fat, don't let it cloud your judgment.

http://www.usatourist.com/english/ti...ens-Sizes.html.

Women's Dresses and Suits (Misses Sizes)
European 32 34 36 38 40 42 44 46 48 50
UK 4 6 8 10 12 14 16 18 20 22
Japan 5 7 9 11 13 15 17 19 21 23
USA 2 4 6 8 10 12 14 16 18 20
USA LETTER XS S S M M L L XL 1X 2X


Women's Dresses and Suits (Junior Sizes)
European 28 30 32 34 36 38 40 42
UK 3 5 7 9 11 13 15 17
Japan 0 2 4 6 8 10 12 14
USA 1 3 5 7 9 11 13 15


Women's Blouses & Sweaters
European 40 42 44 46 48 50 53
UK 34 36 38 40 42 44 46
USA 32 34 36 38 40 42 44


USA Women's Size Standards
US Sizes 2 4 6 8 10 12 14 16 18 20
Bust (inches) 32 ½ 33 ½ 34 ½ 35 ½ 36 ½ 38 39 ½ 41 43 45
Waist (inches) 24 25 26 27 28 29 ½ 31 32 ½ 34 ½ 36 ½
Hip (inches) 34 ½ 35 ½ 36 ½ 37 ½ 38 ½ 40 41 ½ 43 45 47
Bust (cm) 82 ½ 85 87 ½ 90 92 ½ 96 ½ 100 ½ 104 109 114
Waist (cm) 61 63 ½ 66 68 ½ 71 75 79 82 ½ 87 ½ 93
Hip (cm) 87 ½ 90 93 95 98 101 ½ 105 ½ 109 114 119


Women's Bra Sizes
European 85A - DD 90B - F 95B - F 100B - F 105B - F 110B - F
UK 32B - DD 34B - F 36B - F 38B - F 40B - F 42B - F
Japan A - D70 A - F75 A - F80 A - F85 A - F90 A - F95
USA 32A - D 34A - F 36A - F 38A - F 40A - F 42A - F


Women's Shoes
European 35 35 ½ 36 37 37 ½ 38 38 ½ 39 40 41 42
UK 2 ½ 3 3 ½ 4 4 ½ 5 5 ½ 6 6 ½ 7 7 ½
Japan 21 21 ½ 22 22 ½ 23 23 ½ 24 24 ½ 25 25 ½ 26
USA 5 5 ½ 6 6 ½ 7 7 ½ 8 8 ½ 9 9 ½ 10

Personally, I would regard a woman whose figure falls about midway between the two extremes to be more physically attractive and 'healthy' than either set of images.

I also could not help but notice the rather obvious use of professional-quality lighting, backdrop, and makeup in the second set, which presents a more polished, flawless vision than the amateur snapshots exhibited by the first set.

This is not to say that I believe Miss Renn in her former state would appear more beautiful than Miss Renn in her current state if photographed in a similar fashion. I am merely stating that to use these two sets of photos as examples of the differences between the two sizes is not necessarily a fair comparison of 'healthiness'.

http://cravingideas.blogs.com/backin..._358x450_1.jpg


size 0:
http://img.metro.co.uk/i/pix/2009/04...SP_450x350.jpg

size 12:

http://www.harpersbazaar.com.au/asse...09_Curvy06.jpg

Actually, I had previously posted a link to the original article featuring the two models wearing the metallic swimsuit in this thread.

https://www.gothic.net/boards/showpo...1&postcount=41

That is a case where I will agree that both sizes received an equal treatment and I did say that I found the size 12 model to be the more attractive of the two.

But even still...a size 6 would be more attractive.

I've always known you were insecure, but only now do I realize that you are, in fact, thoroughly demented. Your capacity for reason seems to be completely nil.
In this thread, I've said that 12 (US) is a plus size, which it demonstrably is, and has been established to be, multiple times by multiple people throughout the course of this discussion. Moreover, I've said that the size 12 women whose images appear in this thread are unattractively large.
You replied to this by declaring that you know 12 isn't a plus size, despite lacking a basis for that belief, and that if I think Crystal Renn has chunky thighs, I must have a fetish for anorexic people.
In response I told you to simply look through clothing stores online, which largely (no pun intended, except retroactively) consider size 12 to be plus size, and that I found many, say, size 5 and 6 women, who certainly can't be classed as anorexic, to be very good looking.
Now, not only do you cling tenaciously to the still groundless belief that 12 isn't a plus size, but you say I, in addition to only digging anorexics, in fact want to murder anyone with an ass.
Does this sound anything less than fucking psychotic to you?
Throughout this conversation I've made an obvious effort to sidle around your vulnerable feelings, but I seem to have struggled in vain, because you aren't just massively (hah) insecure about your weight. Your self-loathing, fed (lol) by years of loneliness, has ballooned (rofl) into a worryingly irrational persecution complex-- you believe the world, through the agency of 'people like' me and Alan, is 'out to get' fat people. This 'debate' on size 12 came about because you've flung yourself completely into the ardent hope that if you can get down to that size yourself, you will be free from the pernicious attentions of this societal imperative to hate and murder those considered large. The idea that you might still be viewed as fat after you've achieved that great feat is one you desperately reject.

I am not quite certain if that was addressed to me, Miss Ophelia, but if it was then I respectfully refer you to the first statment I made the post above that of Creature6. My preference for the size 12 swimsuit model was for that particular case only, and given only the choice between the two extremes.

Who? Havelock's size 12 (uk) model looks pretty good and would probably look really bad if she cut her size that dramatically.

That's sort of pointless to say because there's no evidence to support or go against it.

Okay...I can understand arguing points and it getting heated. That however is cruel and downright nasty. It's not funny, at all. I'm actually disgusted that someone would actually go that low.

I would say this to anyone who decided to get personal on any point in any discussion this is not because "OMGZ! I need to protect the fat club!" you don't need to go for the low blow to make yourself look "cool" and "intelligent". It doesn't. It makes you look like an arse.

Yeah, you won, well done.

That post was amazing. It's sad when you cannot appreciate its humor, and a little infuriating that you feel yourself in a position to reprimand him but didn't even raise an eyebrow when honeythorn accused him of having a "fetish for anorexics" and wanting to burn all the fat people on earth.

It wasn't amazing and it wasn't funny.

Saying that someone has a fetish for anorexics and wanting to burn fat people is a little different to taking the complete piss out of something someone has potentially struggled with for years. Practically writing an essay on how insecure they are and proper going in for the low blow.

The difference between someone saying something silly like "you have an anorexic fetish" and "LOL! you're insecure and have issues with your weight that you struggle with! I'm gunna make you look an inch tall!" Is quite massive.

Obviously Honeythorn should've thought before she accused him of those things because they are silly, but those accusations are minor compared to an essay written about a real personal problem she may have. That is deep, really deep. Can you actually not see the difference?

Yes, I see the difference.
I'm right and she's wrong. It's not my fault that honeythorn's statements are 'silly'-- she believes they're just as legitimate as mine.

Why walk on eggshells just because she's in denial?

Aren't you being the one doing the real damage by being a pussy and feeding her lies instead of actually being truthful while defending your honor at the same time?

I'm not feeding her lies. Anyone who is overweight is always made to feel very, VERY aware of their shortcomings. People who are overweight don't NEED to have people be in their face about it because the fact that you are is not a fact you can escape very easily and you're always going through the motions about it. I'm not being a pussy, I'm being empathic, having empathy makes you human. Not a pussy. I know what it's like and I've had someone do exactly the same to me concerning my weight. Did it help me? No. It gave me more crap to feel bad about. Being truthful and being cruel are different things as well. If a friend came up to me and talked to me about it, honestly...I wouldn't have felt bad. If someone came up to me and used it against me as a way to win an argument, which they did and proper dug it in...I would have felt bad. Which is what someone did and it really hurt, it didn't make me think they were just helping me by being honest. They were just using it to make themselves look big and me look small.

So we should let HER insult us with ludicrous assumptions and not retaliate because she might feel bad about her weight.
Got it.

No. You're missing the point.

You CAN retaliate. I just think it's in extremely poor taste to go that personal and that low on someone. Why is it hard to understand?

This thread is STILL rolling? Why does it still matter how fat/thin someone is?

Also, has anyone mentioned Hitler yet, or killing all members of the opposite group with something rather unpleasant?

Yeap, read my third to last post.

Ah ok. Then the thread should be over...

So a fat chick gets bitchy and accuses all slender people of anorexia and accuses all people that find slender people to be more attractive of some sort of deep emotional trauma that has led them to have an irrational desire for skeletal freaks, and then you're not allowed to tell this fat chick that she should shut the fuck up because she's clearly just getting pissy due to the issue coming a little too close to home (although over that stomach, I'm not sure just how close anything could really get)?

Alright people. Listen, and listen good. I'm only going to say this once.

NEITHER ONE OF YOU ARE RIGHT. Period. There is no "oh, honeythorn, poor thing. she's fat." FUCK THAT. what, she wins the argument simply because of her fucking weight? bullshit. BULL. SHIT. and there's no "oh, gothicusmaximus, poor guy. she called him a fetishist."

what it all boils down to is that everyone has their own personal opinion of beauty. just because gothicusmaximus like skinny chicks doesn't mean he has a fetish for anorexia. what the fuck, who does that? but that doesn't mean you should thoroughly tear her apart because of her weight, either. that's like saying someone can't have a good argument simply because they're gay or a certain religion or something. it's just what you are. period.

i personally take great offense when someone assumes that everyone who is overweight is that way because of laziness, or obsession with food. personally, i am big because i have medical problems. i have issues with my thyroid and various other things which lead to being overweight, a diet and exercise can only do so much. i'm still a big girl, and short of gastric bypass surgery there isn't much i can do. i always have been and always will be big. and that's how it is.

basically, here's what i'm saying. both honeythorn and gothicusmaximus are wrong.

honeythorn: just because someone doesn't find you attractive because of your weight doesn't make them a fetishist. say, for shits and giggles, that you prefer blondes. if someone said you were a freak for not liking dark hair, wouldn't that piss you off? i think it would. beauty is in the eye of the beholder. it's life, darlin, get a backbone.

gothicusmaximus: weeding out someone's most potent insecurity and feeding on that is never, EVER the way to defend yourself or make a point. are we in second grade? seriously. "don't talk to cindy, she's UGLY." just because honeythorn is large does not mean her opinion is any less meaningful. what the fuck? okay, so you get bothered because she's big and can't see how skinny girls are preferrable to some guys. fine. but you didn't rebute, you simply burned her for no reason. no, you're not a fetishist. what you are is an asshole for saying things like that.