"It's not a big deal"
 

I was watching a commercial.
A couple was talking about their memories. Each mentioned one memory.
The man spoke first. Then it was the turn of the woman.

This happens in many examples on TV. If there's a man and a woman, and the commercial is not specifically intended for women, the man is always going to speak first.
Now, I'm not saying this is the avatar of blatant misogyny or anything, but it is certainly blueprinted this way due to the subconscious emphasis on males rather than females.

Restroom separation. I believe I have talked about this before. They have the same logic than racial segregation: "separate but equal."
In the case of restrooms, unlike racial segregation, the facilities are indeed equal, but does that make it right? If facilities were a perfect image one from the other, would it be morally right for blacks to have their own restrooms, whites another restroom, asians another and mexicans one more?

Yet people are content with these things, because "It's not a big deal"
Just because society has accustomed itself to certain values doesn't make them right.
I'm really not saying that the commercial above, for example, is absolutely evil and does not deserve to be aired, and TV has to be psychologically regulated for subliminal messages and we should ban hate speech and force neutral pronouns in text books.

But what I'm saying is that there are still hints of patriarchy, racism, and elitism everywhere, and harmless or not, it is better to not have them than to have them.

What pisses me off is that I can't even tell this to people in a casual conversation because they all say "It's not a big deal"

Society is slowly evolving. I see unisex bathrooms more and more often in airports, hospitals and restaurants.

Thanks for pointing out the male lead in commercials. They contain interesting subliminal social mores, communication and body language when the details are observed as you pointed out. For example, pet food commercials usually show women opening the container and feeding the pet, extending the role of a woman's place "in the kitchen".

I've noticed that a lot of commercials follow gender role stereotypes, like HumanePain said. Any advertisemnet for a cleaning product shows a woman using it or saying something to the effect that the thing is so revolutionary, a man can use it, too (as in men are not the ones to clean). I do not think that men and women are physically equal--that's just stupid, but I don't think it's necessary to continue to portray such defined positions in society between genders. That said, I don't think I'd be comfortable in a unisex bathroom that was not a single stall...

I agree, Jillian. No, it's not about it being "not a big deal", it's about being RIGHT.

I can't stand that shit. Even the slightest most insignificant thing you may notice to be wrong is always considered, "not worthy of consideration or thought".

No, it may not be a big deal to you or someone else, but it is a concern for someone and those who acknowledge that it's wrong, but doesn't think it's worth effort to fix are the enablers of those who wish to suppress these less than "important" deals.

The worst thing is the depiction of gay people in commercials. You can immediately tell that they're meant to be gay because they're basically one big walking stereotype invented to mock. I don't care whether they stay on television, freedom of speech means freedom of the speech I don't like as well, but people need to at least figure it out.

What I find strange is that gender has never mattered to me and never will...but it means so much to alot of people.

Why should anyone be discriminated and stereotyped just because of their genitals? It's ridiculous.

The thing is though...women want equality...but they fulfill their own stereotype...they want to have a husband and kids to look after and shit. I'm not saying all women..but i've spoken to alot of them that want that lifestyle. Part of it is, I think it's pushed as the ideal goal in life by society.

You probably wont agree but that's my conclusion.

I agree with the idea of unisex bathrooms. I've seen, on many occasions, the women's bathroom full with a line reaching out of the building, and many of them say "Oh, who cares, I'll use the men's." It seems as though unifying these things is becoming the "it's not a big deal" idea. We can hope that this becomes more widespread, and even though people aren't thinking like you are in terms of it being the RIGHT thing to do, they may become accustomed to it that way. I know, that's what you think is a little iffy, but if that's the way society's going to make it work YOUR way, let it happen. After the fact, they may realize "You know, this was right all along." It just may take a while.

One thing I've noticed is that bathrooms that have the baby-changing stations typically only advertise them as being in the womens' bathroom. I've seen a few in men's restrooms, but the majority that I come across are always in the ladies' room. What happens to the dude with the 6 month old with a poopy diaper?

Actually, what I meant with the "it's not a big deal" is that when I talk about these kind of things with people, they don't see a problem because they think it's small.

An example using what Humane was saying: If I were to tell people that it is clear that there's still some sexism by the fact that virtually all commercials concerning a kitchen have a female lead, most people would say something of the sorts of "what's the big deal? It's just a commercial"

One example to show people that "only a commercial" can have serious and significant impact to the world is to ask them if they are aware that lung cancer due to smoking has actually decreased the last few years. And then ask them if they are aware that there are no cigarette commercials on television. And then tell them there was a time when there were dozens of cigarette company commercials and cigarettes used by actors on television shows, and that the lung cancer rate was climbing during those years. Take away the cigarette commercials and guess what? Fewer people are dying form cigarettes! So the corollary to that is "only a commercial" caused people to die!

I've been talking about this (not necessarily on here) for a while now.
I think 100% that bathrooms should be unisex.

People make bullshit claims like "it'll increase r@pe."
Fucking stupid--a r@pist doesn't care about a sign on a door, and it'll actually increase the chance that there will be someone else in the bathroom to help the victim.

You know, Jillian, I had never really thought about the Rest Room part like that before. I totally get it. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

Hmm I think Mr. Clean would be a prime candidate to help bypass cleaning product sexism, but rather than an animated voiceless character maybe get an actor to portray Mr. Clean. Heh brainstorming while sunburnt, stiff, with an arm that is acting up...... interesting(explaination tomorrow).

If a commercial is aimed at women, then of course the woman will usually speak first. Likewise, if it's aimed at men, the man usually speaks first. That's not sexist one way or the other, and it is not "no big deal." It's done intentionally. It's called "marketing." The same thing is done with race, as well.

Though I will say that there is sexism in advertising. Ever see a commercial which features a man striking a woman? It's always portrayed in a way that is psychologically frightening. Now, have you ever seen a commercial which features a woman striking a man? It's no longer scary. Quite the contrary, it's considered comedy.

Most products are not directed to one gender or the other.
Why are sleeping pills and vitamins directed to men?
Why is bug spray directed to women?
Why is tea directed to women?
Why are phones directed to men?

I can't say I've seen many sleeping pills/vitamins commercials at all. Same with tea. Bug spray commercials are usually targeted at women with children (there's the catch), and all the other I've seen were targeted at men. As for phones, it seems to me that they've been targeted at both genders and at multiple age groups equally, which makes sense since phones are something that everyone uses.

Actually, I've noticed a lot of sleeping pill commercials directed at women.

I remember seeing an advert about drink driving and the woman was at home, phoning up her husband to ask him about his important meeting and how she has the dinner on and she's bathed the kids and everything and she makes him crash.

Didn't realise it at the time, but after this topic; why couldn't the woman be the one in the important business meeting and the man be a house-husband?

I usually don't notice this stuff until the roles are reversed. It's those commercials that get me thinking...

See, in cases like this, the commercial isn't sexist. It's merely reflecting the sexism institutionalized within our society. The fact is that, in a given marriage, that the man will work while the woman stays at home is more likely than the opposite scenario, and a PSA like this, whose goal is to make the viewer think 'oh god, that could be me!' wants to target the majority.

Are some commercials inadvertently sexist? I wouldn't doubt it, but some of the things people are complaining about in this thread are ridiculous. Like Beneath The Shadows said, it's just marketing. Although this may provoke you to moral outrage, cleaning products are still predominantly used by women, and those who make these products intend to exploit that fact to make money. Although adults might occasionally eat Trix cereal, that a colorful, fruity breakfast food is marketed to kids isn't ageist.

Because if they did, you just know that some women's group or another would sue whoever made the commercial for "portraying the stereotype that women are bad drivers," or some such crap.

Funny that there is a thread on this; Congress actually tried to pass legislation which would make for unisex bathrooms; introducing the legislation was one of the first steps taken towards equality between genders. Many women at the time objected to the idea for various reasons; a subconscious fear of sharing a unisex bathroom perpetuated most of them. The legislation floated around for a series of years and eventually was shot down.

Most women opposed women's right to vote, doesn't mean it was the wrong thing to do. Just means it's going to take time to change opinions.

But...but...Trix is for kids!











(OK, it had to be said :D )

(And that thing about the fearful bunny.)

I agree with gothicusmaximus, it's just a reflection of our society.
Though it isn't right, there is nothing one can do to change it all at once. This change will take time. Our society has changed a lot since the fight against sexism started(in the 1920's, if I'm not mistaken), and then women were regerded as things existing only for their husband's happiness and their house(again, please correct me if I'm wrong).
In China women had no rights at all, and now there are people who regard commercials like this as unfair. It's an amazing change.
I think that the only thing one can do, is to act the right and justful way both to men and women. Maybe then people will see this and think about their own attitude towards men and women.

I hate guys who are like "Hey, I like women, I'm for equality, I mean, women are better at multi-tasking" and shit like that.

POSITIVE DISCRIMINATION IS NOT EQUALITY.

CRACK A FUCKING BOOK.

Oh, also someone called me a chauvinist because I believe in sex outside of a relationship. ... Except that I read Feminist books and follow Feminist thought and identify as a Feminist. People suck.

How does sex outside of a relationship make someone a chauvinist?

No idea. He described it as sadistic too. Weird.

hm...I'm going to assume that he has some issues

Shit, I agree with you.

Fuck feminism. Every "feminist" I've met is a man bashing hypocrite. How about people try to be civil rights activists and not feminists? Why not be in favor of everyone having rights instead of focusing on a group. Isn't pointing out a group in order to help with their rights discriminating amongst gender anyway?

Dude learn the difference between a feminist and a feminazi. The reason why people pick a group to advocate is because it really isn't feasible for someone to be able to help every single group out there, change doesn't happen instantaneously, and it certainly doesn't happen without any effort. Not to mention all of the legislation that would need to either be enacted or nullified (much of which is quite specific) in order for there to be equality under the law, and all of the drafting for all of that legislation takes a fuck ton of effort (not to mention all of the effort to actually pass the damn things). That and nobody said that if you are a feminist that you can't support other struggles for equality.

Then why are you calling them feminists?
An ideal of equal rights for everyone is passive. Let's get rid of the NAACP and LGBTQI and MEChA and other organizations.
Next time a minority is discriminated, what then? Let everyone feel bad that it happened and feel that if it were up to them it wouldn't have happened?
Organizations demand assertive action in the face of real issues.
The NAACP does not distance whites from blacks because it focuses on blacks. Racism exists, and the NAACP assertively and constantly tries to do away with it.
Sexism exists, and feminism assertively and constantly tries to do away with it.

I said I'm a Feminist, not a Feminist Separatist or something like that. Feminism (or at least what I advocate) aims for equal rights for men and women, from Wollstonecraft to the Sufragettes to me.

Every time I hear that phrase, I think of that Affirmative Action bullshit.

Yeah, Affirmative Action is bullshit, private business should be allowed to make their own decisions, regardless of how ugly those decisions may be.

No. Employment should be anonymous. The employee is hired soley on the abilities and skills they have. Not on their personal life, gender, religion, sex, or orientation and even those that haven't been mentioned. This effectively gets rid of affirmative action.

You could even interview on-line or at a booth at the place of the work to further protect an individual's sovereignty from a bigoted employer.

Does one who holds the keys to food and shelter have the right to be a bigot? Furthermore, is it folly upon the individual to let someone hold that much power over them?

Employment should be made on whatever whims the employer has. If said employer is a member of the KKK, he should be allowed to only employ white Nationalist protestants. He's an asshole, but I think it's his right as a private business owner to do what he wants with it.

Well... that's fairly dismissive. An enabler for corporatism. Good luck. I honestly think nothing needs to be said here. You're crystal clear.

It wouldn't be a problem if, you know, people would be adults about it.

That, my dear, is a MASSIVE if.





IF


Like so

This is precisely why I made this thread. Not to speak about discrimination, but to speak about this particular attitude, and I think no one has.
Just tell me this: If a commercial announced "our product is so good that we don't sell it to n.iggers" and that sells, would you not care?

I'm pretty sure you would. But you don't see the one I first mentioned "as a big deal" because you're used to it.

THANK YOU. I've been trying to put my finger on that attitude for a while. Trying to identify what it is.

It may not be a big deal to someone else, but somewhere it is a big deal for a single solitary person. Are these indifferent attitudes implying that that single person doesn't have a voice?

Essentially, if the world discriminates against just one single person in the world, is that still not an injustice?

That's in no way comparable. Commercials of the kind you're addressing are saying "this product will most probably appeal to this type of person, and we recognize that", not "only this type of person is allowed to buy this product" or "this type of person is better than other types of people".

Gender roles, racism, class expectations... they are all ways to prohibit certain people from certain actions.
The rationalization that has been given to me was "business is business and they do what sells" and that's what I did. Your opinion would be entirely arbitrary if 'business is just business'.

I think what he's talking about in those regards is changing how things are presented. People adhere and identify with steriotypes. They're like cues for behavior. If people were to consciously avoid steriotypes for example, men promoting cleaning products and being depicted as a stay at home dad for example, a saturation of say... and I hate to use this term, "counter steriotypes", may cause people to think more critically instead of just being reactionary.

Most Nike shoe commercials show African athletes. Sure, it can make a quick buck, but is it ethical to reinforce and augment social discriminations for it?

I think you're confusing cause and consequence. That, say, commercials for easy bake ovens feature children exclusively may serve to reinforce the idea that men shouldn't cook, but that notion is, regrettably, already a cultural standard that is not easily overcome. The business can't be blamed for recognizing this and marketing their product accordingly-- their goal isn't to undermine women's lib, it's to make money.

I apologize if I actually have, but I'm pretty sure I have never blamed businesses here.
Haven't I been talking about society this whole time?
It sounds ludicrous to me that someone would have inferred from what I said that I blame businesses for promoting standards beneficial to them while the rest of society wants change.
No; it seems pretty obvious that if businesses to this, it is because society accepts this. Does that mean if society accepts something it is right?