Communism?
 

I honestly think communism, if done right according to the manifesto, could be a potentially successful form of government. What are your thoughts?

Tis only in theory it works, kinda like Anarcho-Capitalism.

Communism works... as long as humans aren't involved in the process.
Human nature always ruins Utopia theories.

Communism works fine... in theory. In practice however... communism sucks. It sucks worse then facism, which is sayin' a lot

Yeah, as Crom Crauch said, Communism works... in theory.
You can also die twice... in theory.
Exactly what is happening today will happen again in about 30 billion years... in theory.

i think that when i eat too much, i take big shits. i also think those same shits stink to high heaven.

those are my thoughts.

I think that Communism is great for thrid world countries. Then as they grow they can move into a more demorcratic nation. It would work better than the war lord system they have now.

Communism works good at first. But it kinda seems that it ultamately fails. Why would anyone want to go that extra mile for society success, if you'll never have anything to show for it?

Communism works only on a paper - never in real life in this selfish world. People won't grow to think unselfishly and they are never willing to give society as much as communism needs. Your fingers always twine to yourself, even if your hand reaches to give.

Even if there'd be exceptions, like Che Guevara, it's not enough but everyone should be like that that it would work.

If anyone thinks communism is a nice idea then have a look at China or Russia. Then think again.

communism, as everyone seems to have said, has a major failing that it's run by humans.

it is however, better than fascism as it's based on equality which i feel is a better thing to base a political ideology on than superiority.

Equality is a better as a goal than a policy.

wunky, at least in practical life fascism has turned out much better than communism. Compare Russia and Germany together. Or China. Look how they've managed. Fascism pulled Germany up from lama, but communism made things only worse in those two other countries.

End-Your making a comparisson of two misappropriations of titles. Germany being Fascist? In all actuality, Italy is, and was, the only "fascist" state to ever have existed. Why? Because fascism was the name of the system they created, where the state (and all its sources) are made subserviant to business and comerce. Now, I know it's popular to lump all fucked-up dictatorships into the term "fascist", but to be honest, the closest system we have to fascism in its truest state is Oligarchal america.

Russia being communist? Again, communist only in propaganda purposes, but not in actuality. Yes, Lenin took a lot of ideas from Marx, but he also disregarded quite a large portion of communistic thought (and all the others after him veered further and further away), thus it could very easilly be argued that "communist" russia was never communist in the first place, and the same could be said about every other country we've termed "Marxist".

Communism?

Yeah, let's all turn into a bunch of hippies. Then we can shoot ourselves in the head.

Haven't we already had this exact same discussion on these boards before?

Are you sure you haven't just read this same discussion more then once?

I don't know, Darkrow... Why do you ask?

I don't know this Wolfmoon, but when I see her 4,147 posts and start date of Dec 2003, I'm not likely to question her knowledge of what discussions have taken place before on this forum.

Communism is like they say, good on paper. In reality, socialism is more like the working version of communism. It works well and is less suseptable to abuse.

like the idea of equality, or rather EVERYONE being inferior! so i guess that in a perfect world, communism would be great. However, corruption within a system does put things into a bit of a pickle...
see the south african communist party (ANC)

Communism was imo never properly applied. As long as it is being administered by humans who live in huge palaces and drive big cars while claiming that all men/women are equal are lying bastards. Human nature will always prevent a faithful application of the communist theories.

Also, chew on this one awhile. If my work rate is superior to yours, why the fuck should I be paid the same as you? It also brings a disturbing picture of a large flock sheep to my mind, the flock being driven towards the slaughterhouse. The same can be said for any form of government. I'm inherently anti anything herdlike.

My thoughts is that humans are simply not ready for Communism. Sorta like Democracy, in the beginning. The ancient Greeks tried it, and it unltimately failed. Many centuries later, it was tried again, with the creation of the United States. It's worked (sorta) so far, but even now we're at the point where humans have to evolve intellectually a bit more until it works properly. And then a lot more until Communism can work properly.

Imo again, but I refuse to accept that democracy is working except for the elite few who get richer and richer while the poor dont have a fucking dime.

You refuse any form of government that is in essence herdlike (monarchy and communism) and you don't like methods that make the rich people richer (democracy and anarchy) so what would you suggest?

Very good question. Honestly, I cant think of anything. I'm sorry Im having one of those days where I wake up and want this once beautiful planet (now r.aped and pillaged beyond repair), to rid herself of all human life.

Huh. This part kinda caught my eye. You've been here on the boards a whole day, thus far haven't had any of your words censored and haven't posted on threads with words that are censored, and yet you used this method to get around it:

I guess like CptSternn, you find that it's incredibly important that words like that exact same one get by. And no less by placing a non-letter separation between the first and the second letter only.

Sorry, just thought that kinda coincidental... "IMO."

Haha, Binkie, don't be too paranoid.
He/She edited his/her post. I saw it before being edited.

Bah! Switch out "paranoid" with "skeptical." :P

I was surprised it was censored. And I feel strongly enough about it to have wanted to edit it.

Well, like I said. Democracy works... sorta.

Honestly, I think Communism would be somewhat dominated by main stream society, screwing over subculture types like ourselves. People are too different from one another to form a utopian society.

Give me democracy any day. I love this country, although I hate the people running it. I hope to be a rich man one day by working hard and contributing to this country.

Well, I think the left in our country is trying to push socialism on us.

I'm tired of hearing "equal rights" and all the crap they are pushing in the schools,the no testing to move to the next grades and crap. These kids when they graduate are going to fail miserably. Anyone in our country has a chance to get ahead in life.

If you make the right decisions and not f up your finances like buying fancy rims for your honda instead of saving the $ to spend on a down payment for a house or job training. But the media and the left keep spewing "it's the rights fault... it's the whites fault... it's the riches fault... it's veryones fault but your own for not making good decisions and thinking ahead.

My parents were definately not rich when they were young. I got myself into bad $ problems too. But it was all my fault. I took a step back and fixed my problems withoutblaming anyone or talking "entitlements".

And F those other forms of govt. Democracy isn't all perfect or all bad. I think the media needs to revisit some of these "failed states" to remind everyone where that road leads too.

And I don't like everything Bush does or anyone for that matter but when I'm overseas I sure stand up for our contry and even our president. I was brought up to respect people even if you don't like them and even if you don't like the home team.. You stand up for them when away from home. Case in point is cptstern...I don't like allot of things in the US or even most of the things Bush does. But I don't like some asshole like stern to be bad mouthing my country.

Ok I'm done with my rant for now!!! lol

Let me get this straight: The liberals are all commies?

Um, didn't this whole prejudiced stereotype thing happen already, like 20 years ago?

Ok, so I want equality. That's bad? That doesn't mean I want everyone to be the SAME. I want everyone, regardless of race, religion, or creed, to have the same opportunities. I don't think it's fair that kids that are born poor and black in the ghetto (or poor and white, for that matter, but statistics are against being born poor and black) have less opportunity than rich kids. That's chance. Neither infant has done anything to deserve where they were born. And that kid that was born poor and black in the ghetto? Maybe, if he works hard enough, MAYBE he will be able to attain the lifestyle the rich kid gets by relying on his trust fund.

You and I both know that's not fair. We also know it's not fair that, statistically, those born black and poor are more likely to be involved in gangs, violence, and end up dying young or in prison for life. We know it's not fair that two consenting adults who love each other can be denied fundamental rights as a couple, just because they happen to be of the same gender. We know it's not fair that, no matter how qualified I am, statistically women make $0.75 for every $1 a man makes. That's not women IN GENERAL, that's women who are as qualified as men in the same jobs as men.

So I want equality. I want people who are obviously equal to have the same opportunities. That doesn't mean I'm a goddamn commie. I don't want everyone to be the same. If one man works harder than another, he should be rewarded accordingly.

I'm as liberal as they come without being an extremist, but I'll have to agree with you on the whole CptSternn thing. I don't know who he thinks he is, but he's been proven wrong on many counts, and he's been proven a hypocrite on others.

Liberals are not commies, but they do have a lot of socialist ideas. An example is the implementation of the welfare system.
I am a capitalistic anarchist, and while I would be a democrat in people's rights, I'm quite the republican when it comes to economics.

Yeah, my boyfriend is the same way, Jilli. I can absolutely understand the mentality.

Yeah, who needs rights for those blasted minorities, eh? Seriously, you must be twelve living in an all white neighborhood to even produce a post like this.

I stand by my previous statement. Inferring that the plight of the black man is somehow linked to the fact black persons tend to have fancy rims on their cars is not racist at all.

Really? What? Get caught stealing gum at the local shop?

Spoken like a true, ignorant american. Ever though that most of those governments in the Middle east, across Asia, and most of Europe existed THOUSANDS of years before america was even DISCOVERED? To claim Democracy is somehow superior is to discount most other forms of government have been here longer, done more for their people, and still are in place.

So when was the last time you were 'overseas'? I'm betting you have never left the states.

So you were brought up to respect everyone, and you do...with the exception blacks, minorities, foreigners, 'euro-trash', all other forms of government, and myself. Your parents must be proud.

I think Heinlein said it best. Democracy is a horrible form of government. The only good thing that can possibly be said about it is that it is preferable to any other form of government invented thus far.

State communism has no redeeming features in my eyes. It is not about eliminating artificial inequality, as it claims. It is about manufacturing equality that issues from the barrel of a gun. An equality of powerlessness, curtailed liberty, and offering a best guess based on history, destitution. Except in practice, of course, where it turns out to be little more than a change in the roster of the elite.

There are only two political philosophies - power, and freedom. Communism is a flavor of the former, which will always prevail where people fail to distinguish between coercive organization and cooperation.

Drake

Seriously cpt.. what make you a cpt anyways.. you probably could never serve in the military.. maybe you worked at Cpt D's?
I don't need to justify myself to ignorant statements like "you've probably never been overseas"... Thats a typical euro left view of americans.
I just can't say it any better. Get a life......

I hate to say it, but I actually agree with Sternn on this one. Firstly, insulting his screen name doesn't make sense. It's the internet, for fuck's sake. And if you don't like him making assumptions about you, why would you spew bullshit generalizations like "Thats a typical euro left view of americans"?

Have you been overseas? Are you aware that a large percent of our men overseas are minorities fighting for YOUR rights? They're fighting for your rights and they're fighting for equality. Obviously, they're fighting to get over a fuckup, too, but they're fighting for America. America is about equal rights. If you don't like that, feel free to move to Saudi Arabia, where their are strict barriers around the social classes. Don't either of you fucking DARE make generalizations about our troops, by the way.

first off I did serve you dipshit. I was a Specialist and my mos was 63. Look it up stupid.
And yes I have been overseas... the better part of 5 yrs. Want to see my payslips?
Eat shit and die

Come on, Sternn. I can't believe you missed this one and echoed ignorance in repeating the mistake. The US is a Republic based on democratic methods; but is absolutely not a Democracy. The best forms of government existing or having existed are merely a hodge podge of several forms of governments meshed together in a workable body for a duration of time. Though I think many are confusing form of government with countries.

While I agree with you, Xng, Art is just responding to one of Stern's insults.

Not that it is necessarily the appropriate response.

I'm not sure what I'd think of Communism, if it ever was actually, fully applied, and had a good deal of success.

I mean, ideologically, it's a nice thought. I'm not an expert on Communism, but my understand is that it's a society without class, where people basically control the economy. I can't imagine, that that working ideally, wouldn't be a good thing. I mean, I would like to think that everyone being equal would be a nice thing. We're all holding hands, and walking under rainbows, high off of life, ect, everything's all honkey dory.

But the problem I don't think it could be achieved in the foreseeable future. Without competition, what immediate reason do you have to work? I know some people would work to better other people, but, will the masses? Also, how do you plan to completely eliminate Capitalism? It just seems incredibly improbable.

That's why when speaking of ideals, Anarchy is t3h r0xz0rz.;)

Pfft.
Anarchy doesn't seem like it would benefit progress in any way. You'd just be functioning on survival. It'd be, "Well. I need food. You need food. Let's farm." Then you hope something bigger emerges out of that. Yet, the problem is, if something does, it can't have any type of governmental basis. Otherwise, it wouldn't be anarchy.

Although, that would be cool.

"I live in a motherfuckin' state of Anarchy. What do you live in?"

Technically you are correct, yes. However, the form of government in america is touted as a democracy, almost on a daily basis by the bush admin. In fact, they also speak of the new 'democracy' in Iraq also just as often.

It's not a text book democracy. Much like britian claiming to be a 'consitutional monarchy', even though they have no constitution.

It his however regarded widely as such due to the fact the government there claims thats what it is. It's also written about as such in text books given to children there.

And in this case, is relevant as people comparing communism to democracy are actually comparing the way of life in a communist country to america, not to a text book democracy, therefore would make it ok to use america and democracy interchangeably, especially since many people wouldn't really know there is a difference.

But you are right. Good call.

And part of what I believe this forum is designed to do is to educate. (I was making the "Come on, Stern" comment in jest, btw.) You are correct in the fact many Americans, incorrectly, believe that the US is a democracy and this is an item which I routinely beat them over the head.

I do disagree with comment. Let's not perpetuate ignorance by accepting it. Isn't that the whole basis for much of your political activities?

Pardon me?

I asked you a simple fucking question, you fuckwit. You got all upset because Sternn assumed you hadn't served overseas, and I asked you if you had. Fuckwit.

If you fucking fought for our country, you would know that we're all equal, jackass. You would know that you're not the only one that fought your way up from the bottom. If that's true, good for you, but YOU ARE NOT UNIQUE.

Just because you did something doesn't mean you get to look down on everyone assuming they haven't.

How can you fight for a cause you don't believe in?

Never said I was unique.

Just responding to your stupid accusation.

There's lots of examples of people making their own way without help from the govt. Thats the point I'm making. I'm also saying there are lots and I mean lots of people who are not taught to properly run their expenses and prioritize spending. But why is the govt and business blamed for their problems. Last I heard a business man wasn't outside anyones house with and AK yelling at them to keep being poor (or the govt).

And how can I fight? Easy, It's called honor and beliefs. I don't agree with govt all the time but I do agree with my counrty and it's beliefs. The difference is who's willing to pay and whos willing to bitch about everything.

Face it. Your just a criticist. Put me down to lift you up.

Go ahead and keep whining about the evil empire and all that BS. Life still goes on after you shut up and don't do anything.

For the last time, dollface, THERE WAS NO ACCUSATION. It was a question, plain and simple.

I didn't ask you how you could fight. I have people very close to me in the military. I would never criticize someone for joining our troops. I will willingly criticize people for stupid attitudes, stupid decisions, and general stupidity, but joining our troops is not stupid.

There is no such thing as a "criticist", and you meant "you're".

People who are born with disadvantages aren't being pussies for getting the government funding they need to go to school. They're not being pussies for pushing for equal rights. So some people need help overcoming certain obstacles. Who are you to look down on them for that?

I only look down on people who know better and still don't help themselves. I didn't say people who get help are "pussies" for it. I'm against a growing attitude to have the govt run lives. I am for equal rights, which we have.

And it was an "accusation" in the form of a question.

Although I wasn't able to find it in the new dictionary. I have heard it used many times throughout the last couple of years. English is a beautiful langauge aint it!

I like English. I don't like when ignoramuses like yourself butcher it.

I still maintain that it wasn't an accusation.

Sternn said "you've probably never been overseas".

You said "I don't need to justify myself to ignorant statements like
'you've probably never been overseas'."

I asked, "HAVE you ever been overseas?"

Where was the accusation?

You said "

Blah blah blah. Blah blah blah blah...

English is an ever evolving language. Get used to it.
Aint used not to be a word then a couple of years ago Websters put it in.