Michael Moore: good or bad?
 

I recently went to go see Farenheight 9/11. I was going to see it on the 4th, but there was way too much traffic to get ANYWHERE, so the farthest i went that day was to work and back. ANYWAYS. (sorry for the off-topic statement) I have been a fan of Michael for a while. I always have loved his informal movies and his odd sense of humor. I think Bowling for Columbine was lovely. It points out how ridiculous weapons can be. I love how he seems to care about the ignored people, and how he gets out and says something when it needs to be said. YES, FARENHEIGHT WAS ONE SIDED, BUT THE PUBLIC WAS ONE SIDED FOR A LONG TIME, ALSO. he was just contradicting the other side with "hey, not everyone thinks the war is good. Not everyone hates Iraq.I personally think that even if you disagree with him, he's hardly hurting anyone and he's using his freedom of speech right well.
-lidia

here's some more freedom of speech - he should have his head stomped repeatedly for being an offensive oaf.
f- fahrenheit 9/11.
spiderman 2 is all that matters.

- mark

Eh? Some of his ideas are good, some of the points he raises legitimate, and some I don’t agree with. I’ll concede his intelligence, there is no doubt about that he’s an accomplished man, and I respect what he's done with his life. Anyone who runs for public office at 18 and wins deserves a mild amount of attention, and I will agree, he does use his constitutional right to freedom of speech well.

But I do prefer Noam Chomsky to Michael Moore. Compared to Noam, Michael’s a pale imitation albeit a louder mouth.

Michael Moore is alright. I enjoyed "Bowling For Columbine" and I agree with alot he has to say. I am eager to see what the fuss is over "Farenheight 911".

it's the old shell game - rally against the man while you're raking in the dough. dude's got a large platform from which he's able to spout whatever garbage he comes up with, all the while showing horrific images to tug the heartstrings. manipulation 101.
it's always good to take in all sides of any controversial subject in order to come up withyour own opinion - hell, it's good to get all sides of any subject, period. moore's an entertainer, though - a la alec baldwin, susan sarandon, woody harrelson et al. personally, i'd like to have a bit more substance behind whatever i need to form an opinion.
i see michael moore as a topic to discuss after consuming many beers or maybe some whiskey - whatever's said should be forgotten soon after.

- mark

MM (no kids, not Marylin Manson) is pretty funny and one-sided.
But at least, someone is for once, is being one-sided on the other plate of the scale, to try and counterbalance fascist idiots like fox news, the Bush administration and morons the likes of Edible eye.

Ofensive to whom? I'd really like to know. Fuckin' kids.

first of all, maelstrom - thanx for the welcome.
second - i'm older than you are - kid-dom has been left far behind.
third - do you usually use your mod status to attempt intimidation, or am i just special?
fourth - in a climate where it's "cool" to bash bush, he's merely cashing in and as long as there are gullible drones who salivate and throw cash at whomever plays the part of a rebel, he's laughing all the way to the bank.
fifth - all politicians suck. they all lie. they all do "stuff" that could be considered reprehensible. bush just happens to have a fan that makes movies.
sixth - he's offensive to me - as stated in my opinion. why? because he acts like he "knows" and when i hear him speak, it's obvious he's just another rhetorically-driven idiot. the stars in your eyes are touching though, maelstrom. you should write him a letter.

- mark

In my best Ozzy, “All Aboard…”

Just trying to figure out how to word this without getting Mael’s dick in my mouth (gag)

...I think, for me, I find fault with your idea that all politicians suck, that they all do stuff that could be considered reprehensible, because it sounds like you’re resigned to the continuation of them doing reprehensible stuff.

I’m not.

Michale Moore has his own agenda, and for the most part his ‘platform’ is all about how one person can make a difference. In those respects he HAS led a charmed life, he HAS been able to get legislation passed as one man against the machine, but what people don’t see, and what I think he sometimes forgets, is he’s not doing all this by himself. There are a lot of people behind him that do the actual work, and he’s just the spokes model for the utopian altruistic government.

To lay blame at his feet, like the right side so often tries, is where I begin to suspect someone is hiding something. When the word unpatriotic starts being slung around like wet panties at a BoyBand concert I begin to wonder what all the fuss is about. Why is the right so adamant about shutting him down? Is it, gasp, because he’s telling the mindless happy masses the truth?

Could be.

As for MM’s one man agenda? Well, it’s laughable. His hearts in the right place, but the numbers just aren’t in his favor. It takes more than one person voicing their opinion to make a change. It’s a good place to start, but entirely too much work for one man or woman to do alone.

And it’s funny you should mention gullible drones. I would argue the opposite, because the fact is people don’t want to think about how their government is failing them, it makes it too fucking hard to get up in the morning and go to work. It also makes it hard to question how government doesn’t work for the people when we are inundated with propaganda telling us how happy we are, how good we have it, how strong our country is, how kind we are to the world.

BAH fucking BAH.

As for cashing in on Bush, really now, MM been beating that issue since he took office, and he was bashing him before 9/11, directly after 9/11 when it wasn't considered a 'cool climate' to bash him, and even had his book Stupid White Men pulled from publication on 9/12 because he wouldn’t rephrase it in a more pro-Bush light. Yeah, he cashed in there. Let’s see, it took nearly three years and the entire Librarians Association behind him to convince his publisher to go ahead and release it.

The money he makes is the money we pay him, just like any politician, and to me it seems like he has our interest in mind. That’s more than I can say for our current elected officials.

And on a final word, let’s not bring moderator status into the argument. What, just because Mael’s a moderator he’s not entitled to his opinion? Fuck that, Mael’s been preaching his particular brand of politics long before I got here, and I wouldn’t have him tone it down for nothing.

Yeah, I'll jump on this bandwagon..Having had this same discussion not too long ago..Mael was talking purely refined smack laced heavily with creme' de sarcasm LONG BEFORE he was a mod, and it is my dying wish that he continue to do so until he is too old and diaper-ridden to type..

( We want Jpegs of that BTW)

Our job as moderators, as it has been so lovingly put before is that of Janitor. Not Gestapo, Not Man or uhh Woman of the Year..We're not trying to win any congeniality awards here and NONE OF US has EVER been accused of being shy or restrained..

We ALL like to express our opinions, and take great pride in doing so..

So suck it up and just roll with it ok?

It only hurts for a little while..


*hee*

:roll:

tstone -
right, left, up, down, in, out - whatever. i don't ascribe to any political party, platform, ideal, or anything else. to approach an argument with me on this basis falls outside the realm of effectiveness, if you're trying to direct a point at me. as soon as someone begins to regurgitate right-wing or left-wing agendas, my level of interest wanes for an agenda is an agenda, no matter how deeply one believes what one recites.
that said - politicians and celebrities work their magic through p.r. - whatever was said about how he fought to get the message out, i.e. - not changing his book, listening to librarians, blah, blah, blah. all sounds good for the underdog spirit, doesn't it? it's obvious he's a real american hero.
i don't trust either profession (politician or celebrity) at face value, and unfortunately, as time goes on, it becomes harder and harder to distinguish between the two. both professions wear a ton of make up, fight like rabid dogs to keep their face in the media and sport huge bank accounts comprised of our money. yes, that's their job and if they do it well - they're rewarded. i don't fault them for it, that's just life. as far as me being resigned to "the continuation of them doing reprehensible stuff.", as you put it - i think that even when they're found responsible for actions that blatantly fuck the american populace, they're not held accountable - what incentive is there for change?
a slap on the wrist and a few shaking fingers on the news just doesn't cut it, in my mind, but i'm just one american citizen, barely a cog in the machine.
i love my country for what it represents - that doesn't mean i have to love the representatives of my country. that goes for bush, kerry, cheney, edwards, kennedy, or whomever you throw into the mix. does this mean that every politician is a piece of shit? no, of course not - but i'll be damned if i'll accept any of them without doing some research first. i don't consider michael moore to be research, accurate, factual, et al - the same as i'd say about rush limbaugh or anyone else that has (yet again) an agnda to spew.
does that mean he shouldn't have a voice? no.
does that mean he shouldn't make a movie? no.
does that mean i resent the fact he has freedom of speech? no.
does all this long-winded hullabaloo mean he's nothing but a bag of hot air? i'd say that's something worth considering.
that's all.

as far as the mod comment - i find a couple of things interesting.
the first is - if one is a moderator or overseer of a group of people (mrmaelstrom), and the first time he or she interacts with a new person in the group (edible_eye), how could one not expect retaliation when said moderator has used words like "fascist idiots" and "morons" while addressing the new member? he's a moderator, what's the shame in pointing that out? as far as i'm concerned, that's someone outright baring teeth and clenching fists. everyone's entitled to an opinion, of course - but expect to back yourself up if all you can do is sling ames at whomever you decide to address. that's not an opinion, that's a challenge.
second - i find it curious you want to contribute "without getting Mael’s dick in my mouth (gag)". of course, you've been here longer than i, so you might have a friendly relationship with maelstrom and not want to get on his bad side. i don't know if that's the truth, but i would understand that.

enough. i've already wasted enough of my and anyone else's time who suffered through this. hopefully, whomever saw this post had enough sense to skip it. fuck michael moore and anyone else who tries to paint themself as a voice for the people. some of us would like to speak for ourself.

- mark

empty -
i've read many of your posts and you're anything but.
i don't suck anything up, tried once and it left a bad taste in my mouth. yes, i realize i just opened myself up for whatever comments might come as a result, but the bottom line is - i refuse to let anyone walk on me due to title or perceived status.
whatever the understood role of moderator might be, it's not (in my opinion) to spit ugly names at someone and believe the discussion is therefore ended.
i think you pegged it perfectly when you requested another jpeg from maelstrom. he's good at that. maybe he can beg for a few more compliments...

disclaimer - i didn't come here looking for a fight, but i'm perfectly happy accepting one.

- mark

Well, let me put it in terms you can understand. The reason I didn't want to get Mael's dick in my mouth is because I've got the balls to fight my own fights, and he has his own set of large hairy ones to fight his, and I was making it plain I wasn't defending him. He's a big boy, he can back his own ideas up.

As for getting on his bad side? Meh, he says something fucktarded I'll call him on it, vise versa. It's happened before, it'll happen again.

The reason I brought up the whole bit about not bringing moderator status into the arguement is becasue it's a weak fucking cop out. He's a moderator, he hurt my feelings, he should know better than that, won't anyone cry with me?

Pahleaze.

I was trying, in the nicest way I know how, to suggest you banter/defend/and backup your ideas on a common ground. If you have a problem with something Mael said or says, then address what he said, not his role on the boards.

That is all.

I felt the need to prance down mammary lane..

Anyone else remember this uhh pearl of Mael Modesty??

*Hee*

:roll:



Yes, Yes, I do keep EVERYTHING!!

:P

um... i think i did address what he said.
nobody hurt my feelings (spare me the fuckin' drama), i just felt he was using his position to talk down to me and again - i don't play that game. i have no idea who he is, he has no idea who i am - anyone who starts a discussion off with someone he or she doesn't know with a bunch of name-calling owes such behavior to one thing - a weak command of language.
for someone who doesn't wnt to defend someone else, you're doing a bang up job. how do those balls taste?

- mark

Do I Pop popcorn?

Roast Marshmellows?

OR get a mop for the blood?

Hmm damn the decisions...


:shock:

Uhh can't we all just get a bong?

I mean uhh along...

:roll:

Ok fuck it, I'm getting the mop!

:D

if you're planning on getting a bong - please bring the popcorn and marshmallows, or at the very least let me know what you don't have so i can help provide a few munchies.
fair 'nuff?

- mark

on a lighter note, i achieved the title of - mopeygoth - tonight. (insert the sound of one-hand clapping here).

- mark

People will believe almost anything, depending on how you package what you're showing them. Case in point; Orson Welles' radio broadcast way back when. More than half the nation thought we were being attacked by aliens because the broadcast sounded like a new program. Tons of people today are walking out of the theater with their mind set on voting for Kerry because they thought they saw a documentary.

Michael Moore doesn't make documentaries. Documentaries show both sides. Moore edits out the other. If you listen to the people on CBS who were interviewed in his film, they're constantly saying, "Well, he asked me that question but my answer didn't appear in the film because he didn't like it." If there's something profound that he films the otherside saying, it won't appear in his movie because then his enemy won't appear as dumb and stupid as they are made to (he'll only take the clips of them shooting themselves in the foot). You'd be amazed at how many times in the filming process, the people that Moore interviews end up leaving the guy speechless when they say something that totally crushes his point.

I don't mind so much Moore and his points as much as I do the fact that he, and other media, classify his films as "documentaries." They're anything but, yet the guy gets awards for "Best Documentary" and that really irkes me because it's decieving. Moore's nothing more than the guy in the office who sparks an argument every five seconds about politics. He's just that guy with a film camera and a loud speaker.

I won't pay to see his film, but I will pay to see the supposed documentary on whether or not Micheal Moores arguments and views are valid which is due to come out here soon.

Ya know, this is exactly the kind of shit I tried to warn you about when you introduced yourself. This is what I get for giving you the benefit of the doubt, thinking you’d be an OK guy. I’ve been wrong before, so it’s nothing new. And you know what I remember about you from the PA boards?

You’re liberal use of words without a fucking clue as to what you were talking about.

And history repeats, funny how that works.

And the so called drama we are talking about here is your goddamn ignorance. You want to feel offended because a moderator took apart you statements and reduced your rather moronic ideas to what they were, trash. If you’d done your homework, read a few of the post like you claimed to (and not just the ones made by the chicky’s you seem so fond of) then you’d know he was doing what he always does. And it’s funny how you take a single sentence from my reply to you, and the subsequent explanation of it (again giving you more benefit than you deserved) and proceeded to use that to bait me.

So let’s go ahead and dispel that. His balls are quite tasty. Not too salty, not too sweaty, and best when steeped in heavy sarcasm. You should know, you’ve had a sampling of them already, so why are you asking me?

So here we are, and we’ve come to the conclusion that Mael has tasty balls, you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about, and I’ve been entirely too nice.

So, after you get through sampling the Mael sack open wide :shock: for a second set. I must warn you though, mine don't go down as easy :)

shaking in my boots, t. just... shaking in my boots.
sigh.
what exactly did you "try to warn me about", oh gallant knight? keep your warnings, t and whatever other thoughts about how i should act while i'm here. what is this? a board of dictators?
maelstrom bashes me from step one and now YOU are trying to tell me about how i'm SUPPOSED to act? i don't need your endorsement, nor do i need for you to think of me as "an ok guy". i'm not - neither for you nor for anyone else that wants to start shit with me and then backpedal, hold up their hands and say - "oh, you're just not cool enough to interact with people here. your behavior, talking back when maelstrom calls you a fascist idiot and a moron, is just another example of your un-coolness.". get a grip. oh wait, are those hearts floating over your head while you're looking at your "turbulent" buddy? interesting.
i've never met you before stopping in here - you made that clear enough earlier - and in that vein, your opinion means shit to me regarding my behavior.
as far as your opinion on "You’re liberal use of words without a fucking clue as to what you were talking about." - first of all, it's 'your', not 'you're'. second, the clarity of my words rings fairly clear, i think. if you don't, go back to night school and take english 101.
ignorance? not hardly. i know when someone sticks their finger in my face, thinking that's the end of a fight. it's not. fuck the moderator status, if that reference keeps getting your panties in a bunch. bottom line - maelstrom referred to me as a fascist idiot and a moron. fuck him for being so glib with his use of inflammatory words and fuck you for telling me to take it. other than that, he didn't reduce anything with his five sentence response aside from the quality of debate.
i've read many posts on this board, yes. i've read many posted by "the chicky's" - especially if a picture accompanies. it's a flaw of my being a man. what? it's a crime to be "fond of" chicky's? maybe between you and maelstrom, but not in my world. i just got here, t. as in - maybe 5 days ago. excuse me for not being as well versed in gothic.net etiquette as you may be. it takes some people a little while to get a feel for the landscape. and yes, i've read replies by maelstrom - what do any of them have to do with what he said here when he blatantly pointed a finger at me and called me a "moron"? are you insane?
by the way - since you were so offended with the perception of me taking only a single sentence from your posts and jumping on it - i'm trying to behave better for you and tear the whole fuckin' thing up. if you felt "baited", blame yourself, not me. i'm not responsible for what you do. fair 'nuff? oh, and by the way - fuck you and anyone else who tells me how i'm supposed to behave. been there, done that in life already. don't need to do it anymore. end of story. amen. thank you.
next, don't give me "more benefit than i deserve". don't give me anything. i work for a living. keep your charity for someone who needs it.
getting to the end here - i guess i could say i'm happy for you that you enjoy maelstrom's balls, but i'm not. that's really private info. and i don't need the details. i've sampled nothing from him other than a bunch of words from the past (earlier posts) and five sentences directed at "fascist idiots like fox news, the Bush administration and morons the likes of Edible eye."
oh, that's right. he's allowed to say stuff like that, according to you. and my behavior is bad, because i reacted, according to you. there are quite a few parameters of interaction i need to learn, according to you.
your argument is weak because you argue for someone else. take care of yourself, t. in the end, you're all you got.
whatever.
maybe that's not allowed on this board, either - according to you.

- mark

by the way, battery -
excellent words.
personally, i'll probably rent the movie when it comes out on dvd, just to get one side - there's no way i'm gonna pay full price. i'd rather go to taco bell the night i rent it with the money i save.
you said it better than i - "Michael Moore doesn't make documentaries. Documentaries show both sides. Moore edits out the other."
clean, crisp, concise.

- mark

I find it amusing the cheap shots one takes at a person. MOD? Cash in? Isn't that a friggin cop out? Lets discuss what really matters. After all, cashing in. Wouldn't you? Money is money, and no one attacks bush on the level MM does unless it's something his heart is into. Alot of people attack Bush because it's trendy to believe it's gas motivated. It's a little more indepth than that. If I had MM's talent. You bet your friggin a$$ I'd do what he does and make cash doing it. After all, when will be a persons next chance to find a more stupid president to clown on? Try to Imagine how Bush Sr. Feels about all the crap going on. If you watch the movie, you can't say the entire thing is BS. I'm surprised the blacks in FL, didn't go riot. Imagine if that happened to the blacks in LA! That might of been worse than a few Plane hijackings.

I actually thought of apologizing for coming in with a one sided view myself and an insult to boot from the word go. It wasn't something I should be to proud of, especially with the added "responsibility" of being a mod here.

Thing is, I really don't see anything on my message that suggests I behaved as anything other than an ordinary, regular arsehole. Nothing that suggests my views are balanced and right because I'm a mod and can shov'em down anyone's throat.

You just assumed it on your own and "lost face" as the chinese say. And the odds were on you at 1st.

No one here sucks up to me, and I'm put in my place by anyone who makes a point and proves me to be an idiot, no matter how long he/she/it has been around. So you lost the only thing you had going: me being insulting.

Does that excuse me from doing my moral bit and apologize?

No!




But fuck it. Somehow, I just don't feel like it anymore. Weaselboy is higher on the food chain than I. You should probably send him a private message and complain to him about it.

Instead of getting your undies in a twist and dish out long winded justifications to your previous words, you might have tried some of that first.

Welcome aboard by the way, enjoy your stay.

Heh.

Seems edible eye thinks he's Michael Moore now. Fighting the power which is restraining him. Making his point loudly, and, as was pointed out by 'bush' showing only one side of the arguement.

And we all think he's a jackass.

but yeah, Michael Moore's pretty cool. He has my respect.

ah. the instigator returns.
most of what has been written since you smacked down your insults belongs to tstone. but since you're back now - thanx for the official welcome.
i neither want nor need an apology. it'd be just as empty as the initial post you directed so sweetly in my direction. as long as i understand this was where it came from - "Thing is, I really don't see anything on my message that suggests I behaved as anything other than an ordinary, regular arsehole.", it puts everything into perspective. one thing - i assumed nothing in terms of your responsibility as a mod. what i did do was to take what you said, someone i'd never met before - and a moderator to boot - and voice my confusion as to why you slammed me, personally. i like to beat things i don't understand. it's a flaw of mine, i think - but i do admit it and from what i understand, that's the beginning of rectifying the problem. now that you've identified yourself as an "arsehole", i understand.
and for the record, i'm not now, nor was i ever complaining. i was calling you out to explain yourself. that's it. you did. no more problem.

back to michael moore? bloated sack of fetid air.

ok. i'm heading out to see spiderman 2. then, it's off to the club for some drinks and maybe i'll stagger home and check the board later. have a wonderful night, all.

- mark

*nods*

ayep.....i've put mael in his place several times....




oh. wait. that's not how he meant it.


uhhhhh.....never mind.

oh, and panther - eat your mom's ass. i did. tasted all right.

- mark

*Raises eyebrow*

Is that really the best you can do? Tsk tsk.

Well, that might eb agood idea, since htat is what this thread is about, and not your being pissed at someone you think is using their power to oppress you.

If you have a problme with soemone, would you care to do the shooting where innocent bystanders won't get caught in between?

wanna hear something gay? he started it.
oh, and i signed back in here to apologize for my last post. that was uncalled for. you took it on good stride, panther. thanx for that.
i don't like portraying myself like that, though.

again - i apologize.

- mark

*raises other eyebrow*

Darling, you have a nasty habit of being just like the people you don't like.

Why should I accept your apology any more tahn youa ccepted maelstrom's?

But, since yuo did apologize, I will accept your spology, in hopes that yuo understand what I'm trying to teach you, so next teim you won't hijacka thread to bitch about something off topic.

And maybe refrain from accusing otehrs of abusing their power.

but I doubt it'll happen.

Since you were so kind in editing my post, and pointing out my glaring mistake, I thought I’d return the favor.


(S)shaking in my boots, (T, and that’s Mr. T to you)t. just...(No space needed after the ellipsis) (S, and you are using a lot of fragments, having a problem forming complete thoughts? Yeah, it I thought so)shaking in my boots.
(S)sigh.
(W)what exactly did you (Incorrect use of quotations, it’s not the exact wording I used, you might want to paraphrase instead) "try to warn me about", oh gallant knight? (K)keep your warnings, (Remember the phrase “I pity the fool” and you’ll remember my name) t and (Awkward phrasing because you haven’t given another example to quantify using the word other) whatever other thoughts (About and How, you are modifying one adverb with another, and in this case it’s unnecessary) about how (I) i should act while (I)i'm here. (W)what is this? (A and you didn’t proceed the fragmented question with a question word, but the infraction can be overlooked)a board of dictators?
(M)maelstrom bashes me from (Awkward turn of phrase, it’s not a 12 step program, and I would have taken, “from the start,” or, “from the get go,” and even, “from the beginning.”)step one and now YOU are trying to tell me (Needless word and redundant, remember that adverb on abverb collision I told you about? Yep, you did it again.)about how (I)i'm SUPPOSED to act? (I)i don't need your (Poor word choice. I’m not shilling Captain Crunch fucktard) endorsement, nor do (I)i need for you to think of me as (Again, you fucked up the whole idea of quotes, good to go fucktard) "an ok guy". (I)i'm not - neither for you nor for anyone else (From the word that to say you did a fine job of ****** grammar, I thank you.)that wants to start shit with me and then backpedal, hold up their hands and say – (Now YOU’RE just being stupid and making up your own quotes, but what the hell? Not as if you had any concept what they were for in the first place) "(O)oh, you're just not cool enough to interact with people here. (Y)your behavior, talking back when (M)maelstrom calls you a fascist idiot and a moron, is just another example of your un-coolness."(Unneeded period.). (G)get a grip. (O)oh wait, are those hearts floating over your head while you're looking at your (Quit using the thesaurus, its not fucking helping you) "turbulent" buddy? (I)interesting.
(I)i've never met you before stopping in here - you made that clear enough earlier - and in that vein, your opinion means shit to me regarding my behavior.
(A)as far as your opinion on (Well, goddamn, you finally got one right!)"You’re liberal use of words without a fucking clue as to what you were talking about." (Don’t know why you used the dash, but you should have capitalized First)- first of all, it's 'your', not 'you're'. second, the clarity of my words rings fairly (redundant satement clarity and clear are saying the same thing, and this is like you saying (notice I use the quantifier like?) “Mr. Maelstrom’s words pained me painfully”) clear, (I)i think. (I)if you don't, go back to night school and take (E)english 101.
(I)ignorance? (N)not hardly. (I)i know when someone sticks their finger in my face, thinking that's the end of a fight. (You left the previous sentence dangling.) (I)it's not. (F)fuck the moderator status, if that reference keeps getting your panties in a bunch(Fragmented too bad to stand alone, needs revising). (B)bottom line – (M)maelstrom referred to me as a fascist idiot and a moron. (F)fuck him for being so glib with his use of (You like that thesaurus, don’t you?)inflammatory words and fuck you for telling me to take it. (O)other than that, he didn't reduce anything with his five sentence response aside from the quality of debate.
(I)i've read many posts on this board, yes. (I)i've read many posted by (And another one!)"the chicky's" - especially if a picture accompanies(Fragmented, as most of your sentences are, but this one can be saved by simply ending with the word it). (I)it's a flaw of (me)my being a man. (W)what? (I)it's a crime to be "fond of" chicky's? (M)maybe between you and (M)maelstrom, (sentence makes no sense because your phrasing isn’t just fragmented, it’s Neanderthalic) but not in my world. (I)i just got here, (“Pity the fool)t. as in - maybe 5 days ago. (E)excuse me for not being as well versed in gothic.net etiquette as you (redundant, don’t need the words may be) may be. (I)it takes some people a little while to get a feel for the landscape. (A)and yes, (I)i've read replies by (M)maelstrom - what do any of them have to do with what he said here when he blatantly pointed a finger at me and called me a "moron"? (awkward punctuation revise)are you insane?
(B)by the way - since you were so offended with the perception of me taking only a single sentence from your posts and jumping on it – (I)i'm trying to behave better for you and tear the whole fuckin' thing up. (I)if you felt "baited", blame yourself, not me. (I)i'm not responsible for what you do. fair 'nuff? (O)oh, and by the way - fuck you and anyone else who tells me how (I)i'm supposed to behave. (B)been there, (Awkward sentence structure)done that in life already. (D)don't need to do it anymore. (E)end of story. (A)amen. (T)thank you.
(N, and it really should be Finally)next, don't give me (You’re doing better at quoting,you’re your punctuation is off. A comma should proceed the quotation, and a period when you’re through with it, or a comma if you’re not, which should go before the last quotation.)"more benefit than (I)i deserve". (D)don't give me anything. (I)i work for a living. (K)keep your charity for someone who needs it.
(G)getting to the end here – (I)i guess (I)i could say (I)i'm happy for you that you enjoy (M)maelstrom's balls, but (I)i'm not. (T)that's really private info. (You needed a comma befre the and not a period.)and (I)i don't need the details. (I)i've sampled nothing from him other than a bunch of words from the past (earlier posts) and five sentences directed at (Damn, so close)"fascist idiots like fox news, the Bush administration and morons the likes of Edible eye."
(O)oh, that's right. (H)he's allowed to say stuff like that, according to you. (A)and my behavior is bad, because (I)i reacted, according to you(Fragmented needs revising). (T)there are quite a few parameters of interaction (I)i need to learn, according to you.
(Y)your argument is weak because you argue for someone else. take care of yourself, (PTF)t. in the end, you're all you got.
(W)whatever.
(M)maybe that's not allowed on this board, either - according to you.


- mark


NOW.

Listen, nutspread, if you’re feelings got so fucking tweaked because someone called you a fascist idiot, and called you on the sublimely fucked up statement you made, which reads thusly, “here's some more freedom of speech - he should have his head stomped repeatedly for being an offensive oaf. f- fahrenheit 9/11.spiderman 2 is all that matters,” and you have the audacity to not even quantify your words when you are called on it, but cry fey instead that a moderator has abused his privileges...aside from your command of the English language, the only thing being abused is the issue, which you have made quite clear you have no knowledge of.

Remember when I snuffed your argument that MM was taking advantage of the cool Bush bashing climate? I think your reply to that was something like, “Blah Blah Blah,” which is a really witty comeback, and shows you for the lowbrow idiot you are. Instead of looking into it, gasp, actually checking your facts before you let your ass fart out whatever that is you call intelligence, you act like a six year old who’s just been told his pecker will fall off if he keeps rubbing it.

“Blah Blah Blah, I’m not hearing you.”

Pahleaze.

The benefit I gave you, which you are so fond of throwing back in my face, was to actually engage you in a debate. Usually I reserve that right for people I think may have half a brain, and instead of coming out like Mael (it was my first gut response but again I gave you the benefit that you were making a sweeping statement to tweak curiosity, which I now know was untrue. You just had no concept of what you were talking about) and instead of coming out swinging I asked questions, and I answered some of yours because…hell, you might know something I didn’t, and maybe you had reasons other than stupidity to say the things you did.

NOT.

As for the chickies, if you want to be a pussy hound then by all means have at it. Yeah, that’s how you are coming off. And funny that you should still draw so much attention to my homosexual reference, I’m comfortable in my manhood to say those things, but you? Are you really that fucking insecure?

Well, that’s a stupid goddamn question. You’ve answered it in three different posts now.

So, in summation we know you have a weak grasp of the English language (thanks for pointing out my mistake by the way. Until you did that I was fine to let your lapses slide, which is how I operate for most of the people here) and that you may have homosexual tendencies and really want to see Spiderman 2.

Lookout man, he’s got radioactive cum.

Bah.

If I’ve forgotten anything I’m sure you’ll remind me in that Oh so fucking sweet halting gibberish you call english. Welcome to the boards, again.

ya know edible eye,

The last person who used the word bashing alot, was a certain infamous ex-board member named "Nicolas Pacione". Otherwise known here as Nickypoo. As sure as the mods here will attest his posts were utter crap.

He tried writing fiction. Result = Failure. Any positive criticism thrown his way by some respectable posters was met with flaming contempt. Even his reply posts didn't make any sense either grammatically or otherwise. Ask around, Tstone will agree with me.

This is a fair warning (Note emphasis on the word warning. This is not a threat just advice), hoping that you won't go down in history as a repeat of him.

Like Tstone did, I'm giving ya a fair chance. So think twice before come down like the plague on any other board members.

~akhira~

Alright, alright chilums. Enough of this.
Not that I don't want people to insult eachother here, but let's try to either make it interesting and funny for outsiders of the insult war to have something interesting to read while the subject at hand isn't argued reasonably.

Edible, either you feel insulted by Michael Moore's one-sided perspective, or it's the political/moral/philosophycal stand he takes that you don't agree with.

If it's the latter, I'll say that at if he is as an extremist as many right-wingers (the likes of Rush, for example) in his views, but at least, he's a lot funnier in his portraial of his view of things.

So that leaves his views and political stands to be argued against. I do believe you can be a little more precise and objective, so that we can get a discussion going on issues instead of lowering ourselves to the mud-slinging we often see in politicians.

To avoid some of us from repeating ourselves and our views, maybe you (and others) should read up on the thread "goth politics", if it hasn't been erased already. It can/could be found in the general forum.

Ok we have resorted to " Your Ma-Ma" Insults?

Yeah, yeah you apologized..

But you still typed it and posted it..

Cmon really, how old are we??

We're a fairly mellow group here..

Fairly.

You've been a member how many days?

Are you trying to set some sort of record for " Most Users Irriitated In a Seven Day Period" ?

Cause your doing a good job..

I expect the 15 year olds on here to make the kind of insults you made to Panther. I Know your older than I am, and I'm 32.

We don't have a maturity minimum standard in place here, but posts like that up there make me wish that we did.

How do you expect to be received when you come back at other members with an entire aresnal of vituperation?? We all try to let each other fight our own battles for the most part. However, there is a fine line to that neutrality and frankly, you pissed all over it.

We are friends, and it is tiresome and irritating to have a fledgling member join our little group and than behave in the manner in which you have behaved in since you appeared.

We have ALL had some knock down, drag out debates with each other on MANY sensitive topics. The difference being, we all appreciate the free exchange of ideas, know when to back off, and respect the fact that we're not all going to agree all the time. Yes, there has been two or three debates that got really personal, but for the most part we all just roll with it.

And the Homophobia?

Pretty damn lame..

The fact that we're secure enough in who we are to make the kinds of jokes that we do should AGAIN be a BIG clue as to what a tightly knit group we all are.


We also pick our battles, and I just don't see Michael Moore being a reason to alienate yourself from a group of people that you are still getting to know better.

If your attitude is going to continue to be this abrasive, expect many more discussions like the ones you have been having the last few days.

If that's your thing, well that's just really sad. If it isn't then chill the hell out and reserve the " Your Ma-Ma " jokes for the locker room at your gym ok?

In closing, let me add I excercised much in the way of restraint in my response to you. I am trying to give you the tinest bit of the benefit of the doubt.

Don't piss all over that ok?

NO SHIT!!!!! From what I was accostumed to read from you when someone treaded where you don't like. You didn't sell the flamethrower did you sweets?

Back to the issue, anyone who ridicules big corporate business, the weapons industry and the way they pull strings in government, deserves my aplause.

When the leaders who are freely elected by the people (I'm not sure that applies in Bush's case) sell out everything the U.S. stands for, betray their countrymen and pervert the separation of church and state, they are meant to be ridiculed and laughed at, which is also a way of alerting people to issues they might not have been aware of before.

Anything that makes someone "open their eyes" for the first time to issues they thought they already had made their mind up about, and show them another perspective (one sided as it might be) is a good thing for all of us. Widening of perspectives is a good thing, and the shock value is necessary, as so is the humour, because people are not going to go out of their way easily to inform themselves on different/opposing points of view. Entertainment therefore, is a good means to an end.

Obviously, I wrote that one to make people think of the obvious comeback to that: The end doesn't justify the means.

People whose loved ones just got shot/blown up/beheaded somewhere in the middle east or are in danger of that happening at any given moment, deserve to know, question, criticise, ridicule and taunt the decision makers in order to find out if their loved ones lives (the means) justitfy the ends (the ends government gives for this conflict, are nothing but empty lies that cover economic reasons).

North Korea has nuclear capacity. Unquestioned. No need for U.N. observers. When are the marines going in? Should they go in the 1st place? Do the Koreans deserve more to be talked to than iraquis, or are they just far more dangerous, making "surgical" bombings and territorial invasion a feasible tactic?

Oh, shit, I forgot that N.Korea has a leader who was freely chosen by it's people, rather than just inheriting it from his old man.

No.. I didn't sell the flame thrower.. She's still recovering from her most recent retard assasinations. It was also suggested not too long ago that my "outspokeness" as a moderator was perhaps "intimidating" the direction that certain conversations took. You and I were never known for being warm and fuzzy. We earned that reputaion LONG before we became moderators. However, I am trying to make the tiniest effort to control my urges to skullfuck the gene-pool polluting newbies we SOMETIMES have lurking around the board. For the most part, this has been a fairly easy task. I kick alot more puppies now sure, but hey who's perfect?

:shock:

But isn’t that the norm? When was the last documentary that portrayed both sides of an issue, and I mean both sides…not two perceptions of the same issue, one conservative the other uber conservative? I watched a documentary on Saddam the other night where only one view was expressed (was he a tyrant or a madman?) and after that I watched another documentary on the Coelacanth where only one view was expressed (was it a fish or a prehistoric fish? Why not, was it a fish or a Dinosaur? Or, was it a fish or a pretty bit of ribbon? No, they opted for was it a fish, or a fish) and then I watched a documentary on the history of Jell-O, which was actually unbiased and just put the facts forward.

As Meatloaf would say, two out of three ain’t bad.

The days where news gave the masses an unbiased report are over, and I will agree that what you say concerning Michael Moore is true, but I will disagree and argue we need more people representing the other side of the spectrum. In this way the two competing sides are completing the story and giving us the whole truth, which will then allow us to make an accurate decision. For too long the news and public access systems have been dominated by radical conservatives. If you look at the boards of directors for the major news outlets you will find CEO’s of some of the worlds largest corporations manning the wheels, and if you look at Public Broadcast funding you will find the largest amount of monies comes from big corporations who also happen to be radical conservatives. These are the people we expect to get the whole truth from?

They’ll give us their version, as they see it, but we all know there are two sides and I for one am happy when the other side gets a chance to express their view.

And as an FYI, my voter registration card has me as a republican, and I’ve leaned that way since I was eleven (yes I remember the day well) but that doesn’t mean I vote every issue in a conservative manner, nor do I want only conservative material to base my opinions on. What I want, and what most people want, is the whole story and the right to make up our minds on the principle of facts alone, and we can only make the right decision when presented with the entire truth.

Oddly enough, I said these EXACT words to a friend of mine not five minutes ago. Chock fucking full o' profound truth. You can apply that to just about every conceivable scenario. Informed decisions are impossible to make without all the available data. Every piece of information has a piece in the puzzle. Fewer suprises that way too eh?

My advice?

Question everything.


"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it or who has said it, not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."
~Buddha

awesome night last night. out to see spiderman 2 - perfect movie... beyond perfect. than it was off to my brother's club where we drank and hung out with some wonderfully, beautiful girls. delicious ending to an awesome night. to top it off, i come home to find my last post was edited for free.
i've sometimes wondered what it would be like to work with an editor - thanx for your effort, tstone. the only problem i have with what you did - your editing was opinion based regarding how you felt i should have worded my post rather than trying to feel out my style and approaching it that way. you're not a professional editor. no hard feelings. i've read some of your stuff (the corpse story collaboration) and it's pretty decent. your writing style suits you, it doesn't suit me. thanx again for the effort, but it was unnecessary.
anyway, i'll address the posts directed to me while i was away and then yes - i'd like this to die. if it continues, so be it but again - i didn't come here to fight regardless of what it seems to be at this point. my days are spent endlessly fighting with others and at some point - enough is enough.
in truth, t - way back when - i addressed maelstrom and it was you who decided to ride in like the lone ranger. i had no issue with you before that. maelstrom handled his own side, just as you predicted, and his response satisfied me. case closed in my mind.

panther -
thanx for accepting my apology. i will not stoop to that level again.

tstone -
again, thanx for editing my post. part of the rules posted here (gothic.net) state that writing in all lower case letters is perfectly acceptable, which negates roughly 80% of your work right off the bat. the rest, as i said before, is opinion based, not concrete grammatical assistance. i understand you have a drive to direct my behavior here (for whatever reason) but changing my lower case to capitals goes over the top.
about your references to a thesaurus, if you'd need one to use the words i did, that's a sad testament to your command of the english language. 'nuff said about that.
as far as my use of quotes, aside from the word "turbulent" and my analogy about being cool enough to interact, all others were copied and pasted. erego, they require quotes.
next - the first three paragraphs of your rant will only serve to open more doors of strife if i respond in kind. that said, i'll let them go. the only thing i will say is - the homosexual reference has been something YOU continued to toss out. i'm a male nurse, hetero by the way, but there are more than a few gay men in my profession. if i had a problem with any sort of sexual orientation, working in healthcare would not be the place for me to punch my clock. if you'd rather not have people question your liberal droppings of gay statements, then don't make them. doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. as for me being a "pussy hound", i've never heard the term before but sure - i appreciate women. a lot.
finally - spiderman 2? i grew up reading comics, spiderman more than others. having these movies in theaters has been a dream come true. oh yeah - thanx again for the welcome.
p.s. - he does have radioactive cum. that was the dilemma he faced when he and mary jane decided to have a baby - in the comic, not the movie.

akhira -
nicholas pacione means nothing to me, whether or not tstone agrees with you. and you can keep your advice, warning, not-threat, whatever. if you don't feel it necessary to call someone on their choice of words, so be it. maelstrom spoke, i called him on it, and he answered. end of that story. tstone figured he'd stick up for his bud, which is fine and honorable, but i'm not taking it from him either.
handle your own feelings about how you want to be treated in life. no reason to feel the need to guide mine. i got it covered.

maelstrom -
no more hard feelings here - although i'm not giving up my right to question in the future. as for michael moore - i've listened to a few interviews (never saw his movies) and came away each time with a sour taste in my mouth. the dude's just a bag of inflammatory rhetoric. the problem? if he was a ship, he'd have all his wind-bag garbage on one side and he'd tip over. of course there are other people (many people) out there with their own agendas, but this topic was about michael moore. i figure i'll see fahrenheit 9/11 when it hits dvd. you appreciate his work and that's your opinion. i hope the movie excites you the way spiderman 2 has excited me.

empty -
first, i'm surprised you're 32. tstone will call me a "pussy hound" but i could have sworn you were somewhere between 19 and 22 from your pictures.
i've already apologized and absolutely agree with you that what i said to panther was inappropriate and immature. you're dead on and i have no rebuttal. i said earlier in this post i wouldn't stoop to that level again, and i won't.
i've also addressed the homophobia issue. there isn't one. i was only reacting to t's words. i could care less what he sucks, eats or accepts into his most sensitive of areas. not an issue with me.

and i guess that's it. again - my problem was with maelstrom and maelstrom handled my problem fine. whatever else comes my way, so be it. i'm done with this now unless someone else wants to keep it going.

- mark

(A)awesome night last night. (O)out to see spiderman 2 - perfect movie...(No space needed) beyond perfect. (Then)than it was off to my brother's club where we drank and hung out with some wonderfully,(no comma needed, you are modifying an adjective with an adverb) beautiful girls. (D)delicious ending to an awesome night. (T)to top it off, (I)i come home to find my last post was edited for free.

And some more free edits just for you :}

And actually, if you go back through my edits you’ll find I was not being opinionated and I allowed you ample room for personal stylistic usage. Some things I did not allow, nor would any self-respecting editor, and those aren’t up for argument. I did not interject my personal feelings as to the content of your post during the editing, and only did that once I was done with my job.

As for 80 percent being invalid, even in a lackadaisical atmosphere as this, and yeah verily some punctuation and grammar is overlooked for the majority of the members, but not when the members are self-proclaimed writers.

No hard feelings whatsoever, and I have professionally edited in the past, but it’s not how I like to spend my time. When I say professionally edited, that means I was paid for my efforts.

Thanks for the compliment of the corpses thread, but it’s not my best representation. Still, it’s open for contribution so why not take a stab at it?

Now, on the topic of you addressing Mael’s post and me replying for him, I think you need to go back to page one and look at the post I made directly after your first post, then the one directly after your second. What I think you failed to realize is that I was already arguing the point with you, and as it heated up, so did I. I tried to separate my ideas from Mael’s because I didn’t want to come off as some acolyte in his defense, but wanted to make it perfectly clear I was engaging you in debate for my own reasons. The bit about not using Mael’s moderator status as an excuse was an oh by the way, and a fairly small part of my second post directed toward you.

So, if you reread what I posted you may find I was already arguing with you in a nice, albeit constructive way. I hadn’t degraded to personally attacking you, that didn’t happen until you degraded your post, and I meet like with like. Anyone here can testify that is how I always opperate.

You go high, I’ll go higher, and you go low? Shit, I’ve got the fucking market cornered on depravity, so you do not want to go there...again…or do you :D because frankly, I like it there and am willing to go at any time.

On the use of a thesaurus, I was making a vague Mark Twain reference and suggesting your use of second cousins in poor taste. Perhaps I should have made the point clearer, but most writers know what someone means when that is said. It wasn’t that I didn’t understand the words; it was that you were using the wrong word for the job. That has nothing to do with style, but everything to do with experience. And to be quite honest, I’m guilty of that sin myself. Big fucking deal, but if I lied and told you it was the right word I’d be doing you a disservice.

On your use of quotation marks, again I explained in the edits where you had it wrong, where you had it right, and where you almost had it. I wasn’t being unduly cruel, just brutally honest. You use quotes incorrectly, and ineffectively. If you were Stephen King and you’d written that, I’d say the same goddamn thing.

And I just have to address your claim of my liberal use of gay statements vs yours. Let’s go.

I started by saying,

You Said


I said

You said

I said

You said

And
Now I may be wrong, but I believe it was you who carried my original statement to extremes and interjected a higher meaning than was intended, even after I clarified it for you. Then I just said fuck it, you want to think I’m gay then by all means more power to you, and I tried to defuse the situation by being what you wanted me to be, and that’s when you really took off. So you’ll have to excuse me if I came to the conclusion you were homophobic. It is how you came off.

And, if you’d like to get back on topic then the issue is still open for debate. If you have something relevant to add, then please by all means contribute. If not, then it’s perfectly fine to refrain. I will add that everyone has an opinion, but not every opinion is equal in every circumstance, and need not be expressed at every opportunity.

Oh, I dunno. Have you seen his interviews on the Daily Show? I figured he must be an okay guy, because he freely staed that his views were not objective, and that they wouldn't be. I haven't seen his movies either, but I like him. If he's not trying to bullshit the late night comedy central watchers, but doesn't apologize for airing his opinions, then he's an okay guy, in my opinion.

I would like to see his movies, but I'll probably go see King Arthur instead, and rent Spiderman 2 instead of Farenheit 9/11.

comic book movies are good. Not that taht was the topic, but I thought I'd throw my two bits in on that subject too.

tstone -
writers, self-proclaimed or otherwise, write. that's it.
when a writer works with an editor, he or she has a decision to make regarding acceptance of proposed changes. not all writers can work with all editors - and for this i'm speaking mainly of work one hopes to publish. for stuff like this (bulletin boards, journals, free rambling) - in my opinion - anything goes. if i do contribute to the corpse thread, i'll do so appropriately.
as for whatever breakdown in communication that might have occurred - let's chalk it up to difficulty of conveying exactly what one means during online conversation. it's easy to go back now and explain everything - ie - what we meant, why we said what we said, what we were referencing, etc. during the heat of the moment, so to speak, we process what we can and respond in kind. that's human nature. even face-to-face, words are sometimes skewed during heated debate. i didn't see you trying to draw me into debate, i saw you attempting to direct my behavior. this is old news and well covered. i'm not saying that you're trying to change what was said earlier - i'm just telling you how it translated on this side of the computer screen.
the thesaurus reference - ? - i read one mark twain book in high school and don't really remember it. i guess i'm not like "most writers" (yes, quotes because i took those two words directly from your post) whom you suggest would understand that.
the gay stuff - we could do the he said / he said thing all day long and it would still amount to the same thing - we played off each other. that's how i saw it, anyway. i never got the impression you were gay, nor did i think maelstrom was gay. the allusions you laid out were too priceless to ignore. that's all.
as for this - "I will add that everyone has an opinion, but not every opinion is equal in every circumstance, and need not be expressed at every opportunity." - i'll second it.

panther -
i don't remember where i saw his interviews, but i saw at least one, plus his rant at that award show where he bashed bush mercilessly. for the record - i'm not pro-bush, nor am i pro-kerry. then again, i'm not anti-bush or anti-kerry, either - to narrow it down to just those two. i don't have a problem with others being pro-anything or anti-anything either. it irks me when someone cashes in on it, though (the same way running fingernails down a chalkboard bothers some people) - especially when only one side is presented in a manipulative way. that's a poor way of conveying information which, in its essence, was what fahrenheit 9/11 was about. granted, i've not seen the movie but i've heard about some of the imagery used to drive points home.

on another note - i'm enjoying getting to know some of the personalities here, take that as you will. i especially like that when fingers fly on the keyboard, even when offense is taken, it comes back in droves. i like that people don't back down. that's nice.
ok. time for me to leave. work's over and it's time to go home and have some beers.

- mark

You seriously misunderstood my post.

My feelings have nothing to do with it. I didn't mention about how I wanted to be treated in life either. Nicolas means nothing to you, that's fine. I'm not calling you on your choice of words either. What I was trying to address your issue of flaming other people. But since you apologized to them that's fine.

end of story.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled program.

phantasm -
are you saying that even if someone is getting faulty information, it's all right as long as the end result is that they vote bush out? that's the way i'm reading your post and i just want to make sure i'm not missing your point.

akhira -
i think you misuderstood mine, as well.
all i was trying to say was - thanx for your advice (or thank you for caring enough to take the time to throw some choice words my way), but no thanx. you equated me with some person i've never heard of, then went on to say his posts were "utter crap". by default, i guess you were saying mine were of equal caliber and that's fine. your opinion on that is perfectly valid. when someone says something to me that i don't feel is warranted though, i'll call him or her on it - period and end of story. i don't think i came down "like the plague" on anyone. if it came across that way, it was unintentional.
the rest of what i said to you moves away from the specific postings here and enters a global realm, kinda like some advice right back at ya - handle yourself however YOU see fit regarding life stuff in general. people will always be there to sling shit at you. if you let them, you deserve every word you get.

side note - no beer when i got home. whiskey's a suitable substitute, though. and by the way - what's the protocol here regarding discussion of drugs and alcohol? am i out of line with this? if so, i'm using alcohol in a metaphorical sense only.

- mark

guilty as charged, jane.
guilty as charged.

- mark

Well since neither of us were around im the medieveal ages I'll definetely give ya that.

So we both misunderstood each other before. Now that we do just one more thing before we ..umm..bury the hatchet.

No I didn't equate your posts with his. I just didn't want them to get that way.

All that being said. Once again welcome to the board. Looking forward to many more interesting debates.

sisdenote - No I don't think your out of line with the alcolohol comments.