Jane Fonda, American Traitor Bitch
 

A TRAITOR IS ABOUT TO BE HONORED
KEEP THIS MOVING ACROSS AMERICA

This is for all the kids born in the 70's who do
not remember, and didn't have to bear the
burden that our fathers, mothers and older
brothers and sisters had to bear.

Jane Fonda is being honored as one of the
"100 Women of the Century."
BY BARBRA WALTERS

Unfortunately, many have forgotten and still
countless others have never known how Ms.
Fonda betrayed not only the idea of our country,
but specific men who served and sacrificed
during Vietnam.


The first part of this is from an F-4E pilot

The pilot's name is Jerry Driscoll, a River Rat.

In 1968, the former Commandant of the USAF
Survival School was a POW in Ho Lo Prison
the "Hanoi Hilton."


Dragged from a stinking cesspit of a cell,
cleaned, fed, and dressed in clean PJ's, he was
ordered to describe for a visiting American
"Peace Activist" the "lenient and humane
treatment" he'd received.


He spat at Ms. Fonda, was clubbed, and was
dragged away.
During the subsequent beating, he fell forward
on to the camp Commandant's feet, which
sent that officer berserk.


In 1978, the Air Force Colonel still suffered from
double vision (which permanently ended his
flying career) from the Commandant's frenzied
application of a wooden baton.


From 1963-65, Col. Larry Carrigan was in the
47FW/DO (F-4E's). He spent 6 years in the
"Hanoi Hilton",,, the first three of which his
family only knew he was "missing in action".
His wife lived on faith that he was still alive.
His group, too, got the cleaned-up, fed and
clothed routine in preparation for a
"peace delegation" visit.
They, however, had time and devised a plan to
get word to the world that they were alive
and still survived. Each man secreted a tiny
piece of paper, with his Social Security Number
on it, in the palm of his hand.


When paraded before Ms. Fonda and a
cameraman, she walked the line, shaking each
man's hand and asking little encouraging
snippets like: "Aren't you sorry you bombed
babies?" and "Are you grateful for the humane
treatment from your benevolent captors?"
Believing this HAD to be an act, they each
palmed her their sliver of paper.
She took them all without missing a beat. At the
end of the line and once the camera stopped
rolling, to the shocked disbelief of the POWs,
she turned to the officer in charge and handed
him all the little pieces of paper.


Three men died from the subsequent beatings.
Colonel Carrigan was almost number four
but he survived, which is the only reason we
know of her actions that day.


"I was a civilian economic development advisor
in Vietnam, and was captured by the North
Vietnamese communists in South Vietnam in
1968, and held prisoner for over 5 years.
I spent 27 months in solitary confinement; one
year in a cage in Cambodia; and one year
in a "black box" in Hanoi.
My North Vietnamese captors deliberately
poisoned and murdered a female missionary, a
nurse in a leprosarium in Ban me Thuot, South
Vietnam, whom I buried in the jungle near the
Cambodian border.
At one time, I weighed only about 90 lbs.
(My normal weight is 170 lbs.)
We were Jane Fonda's "war criminals."
When Jane Fonda was in Hanoi, I was asked by
the camp communist political officer if I would
be willing to meet with her.
I said yes, for I wanted to tell her about the real
treatment we POWs received... and how
different it was from the treatment purported by
the North Vietnamese, and parroted by her as
"humane and lenient."
Because of this, I spent three days on a rocky
floor on my knees, with my arms outstretched
with a large steel weights placed on my hands,
and beaten with a bamboo cane.
I had the opportunity to meet with Jane Fonda
soon after I was released. I asked her
if she would be willing to debate me on TV.
She never did answer me."


These first-hand experiences do not exemplify
someone who should be honored as part
of "100 Years of Great Women."
Lest we forget..." 100 Years of Great Women"
should never include a traitor whose hands are
covered with the blood of so many patriots.

So why would someone of sound mind pick Jane Fonda, American Traitor Bitch, as one of the top 100 greatest women? This discusts me and every veteran whom I have spoken to about this.

Ok, normally I wouldn't spend the 60 seconds it takes to reply to this but...

1. This is an obvious chain email ye got. If yer going to take the time to post, could you at least add some personal commentary, not just regurgatate some tripe you got that probably had a million people in the CC field.

2. This myth was debunked...7 years ago. The list of 100 women was done in a special issue of Redbook written by Barbra Walters back in 1999. You been sitting on it this long or did AOL just get around to putting it in yer inbox? Also, are you that much of a Redbook/Barbra Walters fan?

http://womenshistory.about.com/od/my...fonda_myth.htm

My guess is you probably got this from some gobshite who watches 'The O'Reily Factor' (no relation to any real O'Reilys, at least none here claim him). He also incorrectly spewed this information, again, from yes, a chain email he got on his show a couple months ago once again stirring up this urban legend and convincing people to forward it along.

http://www.newshounds.us/2005/05/19/...jane_fonda.php

This is not the only time he has apoligised. Google him and apology and see all the times he has made the statement 'if I'm wrong I'll say so', which he does, usually six months later and in the closing credits, and note most of the time he is wrong on many topics and quotes. Yet another reason not to feed that bastard any fodder on his show on Goths, he will twist yer words, take them out of context, but will, six months later, in a short statement apologise after no one cares and your name is drug through the mud for his ratings.

So, next time, if you get a chain email, please do us all a solid lad and check yer source, I mean [email protected] might not be the all knowing news source you thought he was.

Slán gó foíl

I hereby consider this thread closed.

Unless someone wants to bicker about how the Us and ALLIES were right to be there in the first place....

"...betrayed the idea of our country...." ?! WTF? Is there still an idea behind the country? I thought it was all a "way of life" by now....


Thanks for the debunking, Sternn.



NEXT!!!


.

Actually it wasn't even me that posted this, I know that it is od to hear this. But I remain signed in on my computer at all times and have not been home for the past 3 days. With that being said, my cousin and his girlfriend were here watching my house while I was away. I just arrived home about three hours ago. Yes, it does appear to be a chain email of some sort. But I must also agree in one way, a really good friend of mine, a member of the Outlaws Motorcycle Club, was a POW in 'nam. I am not possitive where he was held at, but the scars all over his body prove to me that there was much torture going on within those camps. But sorry for the problem of my cousin using my name to post on and sorry that he posted something that is not original.


Axl

Sure, but what the fuck does Jane Fonda have to do with it.

Because she as against the war, does it mean she advocated the torture of US citizens as prisoners of War?

Sure there was torture of prisoners. I mean, they were a totalitarian commie regime. What did you expect.
I mean, if the CIA has illegal prisons around the world to keep detainees without access to legal counsel or even a formal accusation, if they have already been proved to torture prisoners at Abu Ghraib, if coalition partners (british forces) have already been charged with the deaths of some of their prisoners (by their own armed forces), what did you think the Vietcong were gonna do? It's not they could resort to napalm.

Does it mean there were no babies killed in Nam?

Does it mean that civilian villages were'nt carpet-bombed or napalmed?

I mean, we're talking about the US here: 30.000 civilian casualties in a never-ending war against terrorism (so far). Military personel are being held in Iraq against their wishes long after their tours of duty were over (that counts has torture to me when you have a family to raise back home).

Do you think they were all insurgents, or were they "colateral damage"?

Try to see things in perspective, m'kay?
On another note:

PEOPLE, IF YOU'RE ALWAYS LOGGED ON,
MAKE SURE YOU LOGG OFF SO THAT OTHERS CAN'T ACCESS IT.
Also, if using someone else's computer, do not ask it to remember your password, otherwise, the PC's owner will always have access to your G.net membership.

Actually what I have against Jane Fonda is the fact that she openly criticized American soldiers and veterans of the Vietnam Conflict. That is all that I have against her, to criticize the war is one thing but to criticize those men and women that fought in that war is wrong.

And the reason why I am always logged in is because normally I am the only person that uses this computer for any reason.

You can back this up? I know she was against the war, but can you back up your claims? I mean, I remember watching one of her films where she becomes the lover of a Vietnam vet while her husband is still in Vietnam. I don't think you're right at all about this, but hope you can back up your statements.

Why is that?

The stress word in your sentence is "normally". :)

Wow your good Mr Mealstrom. would'nt want to be against you in an argument. lol
I have nothing to say about this Jane Fonda women though.

Uh, yeah. She really did criticise vets. Veteran POWs who, after they were released, described the very real torture they endured. Fonda's public reply was to call these men, "hypocrites and liars," since she spent so much time prior in Northern Vietnam running a propaganda* campaign suggesting no torture was going on and that US servicemen were treated soundly.

(note: Fonda even acknolwedged that it was propaganda, saying that both sides used POWs for it and that she wouldn't apologize)

Binks, your word will suffice.

Now, let me go on to say why she shouldn't be considered to be any kind of traitor in any real peace-loving democracy.

you know what? Babies really were killed and butchered. It's a fact jack.

It happens in every single war. ****, pillaging, torture. It happened in every single war fought by humanity. There was murder, theft, torture and **** in WWII by both sides.

Same in Korea.

Same in Vietnam. If with all the political correctness, the same is still going on in the current "war", why should a 30 year-old conflict be any different?

When your enemy looks different, it's an easy step to consider them to be sub-human.

Do not think for a moment that what has been (and still is) going on would happen if instead of Iraq, the coalition had invaded Sweden.


Vietnam survivors (no matter how loving and caring they are today) did commit atrocities in war time.

They were not the same people. sounds weird, but it ain't.

Portugal fought a 10 year war in Guinea-Bissau, Angola and Mozambique. My old man died in it.

Our soldiers killed, ***** and maimed. they are today loving parents, husbands and co-workers (in spite of all the traumas).

So did the other side (including Cuban guerrillas helping out the left-wing native guerrillas and CIA agents helping out the right-wing ones).

Both sides we're responsible for the torture, **** and mass-murder of whole villages under the enemy's control. Saying that ALL soldiers did this is obviously nfair and does not portray an accurate picture of any of our soldiers, but to deny the atrocities is tantamount to sticking your head up your arse.

We used napalm. So did you.

The US just admited TODAY that it used incendiary bombs in the Fallujah conflict.
It already had denied using napalm in the taking of Baghdad; we later found out that the only difference was that the new bombs were a lot more powerfull (well that's ok, then).

the US has not denied at all the existence and use of secret CIA prisons devised for torture all over the world (Thailand, Poland, Indonesia are examples).

Guantanamo is not fiction. Waht seems fiction is the US feeding its people the line that the ongoing abuse has something to do with flushing the Koran down a toilet.

The US refuses to acknowledge "insurgents" as enemy combatants (thus granting them prisoner status). If considered terrorists, then charges MUST be brought up.

We are all in retrocess right now. Sooner or later, we'll sink back to the middle ages while trying to "protect" the rights we fought so hard for (at the cost of many lives).

Remember: the ends NEVER justify the means.

Do you not think so? Well, consider this, if the war on terror were being fought right now on US soil, would 30.000 dead US civilians justify to the american people the necessity of this war? Hell no.

But when it's people thousands of miles away (especially when they don't even look like us), then its ok. How would an american citizen feel if his/her town was carpet bombed to ruble on account of a CIA report saying that rebel insurgents were housed there? Even if proven right, the CIA would be instatly dismantled (and use a new name, just like our troll fucktards over here).

How many here have said (even if only to themselves) that all muslims are pieces of shit, or that the middle East should be nuked? More than a few, I'll bet.

So Jane Fonda is a bimbo. She married Turner and did home exercise videos, what did you expect?

Elvis advocated Vietnam while taking photo ops with Lyndon Johnson and Sean Penn visited Iraq. Who gives a fuck?

I'm more worried about the words that come out of that moron Rumsfeld's mouth.

I'm a lot more worried about the words that come out of US dictators' (Cheney and Rice) mouths.

Thanks dude, but I'm a lot more passionate than logical, unfortunately. You should try arguing with Binkie. That'll prove to be a challenge, I can tell you. You're welcome to try, but I don't like your odds. :)

Say what you want about her personality and actions but Barbarella was, and still is, freaking hawtness. Her work with the Orgasmatron will still be legend long after the politics are forgotten.

Er..... no comment!!!! ;)

Remember that the Angel is called Duran Duran. That's where the pop-band name came from (a little bit of useless trivia from your neighbourhood-friendly MrM)

I don't really see how it's that big a deal, anyway. There would probably have been worse women than Jane "Blaming the Troops is sure to get me Support!" Fonda on that list that had no place on it that people wouldn't have complained about because they were rich, pretty, or just plain because they didn't challenge their ideals.

Er....that last bit is very hard to understand.

Can you please make it a bit clearer?

Thank you.

.

You need to do some homework Mr. Before so defending jane.
She started "FTA" , or **** the Army restaurants and coffee houses. She organized riots and stuff in America for "Peace" and she sat on the enemies' cannons and smiled and wore their uniform. Senator John McCain was one of the people beaten and tortured when he refused to meet with janes' "Peace Tour" and yes she called our vets "hypocrites and liars" She may have apologized but she should be held accountable for her actions. Benedict Arnold, I think was charged as a traitor, of course that was a long time ago and Jane Fonda's a Movie star daughter of a movie star and sister of a movie star.
Also, John Kerry went around with here during this. There are pictures. Tons. voila Demon

1. Dead Thread
2. Introduction Thread here

Oh...who cares. I mean really. Stop getting your panties in a bunch.Go back to watching some Fox News.

A LOT of people care, horrorgirl. Nothing like being a prisoner of war and have a star from your own country show up and call you all sorts of names while consorting with the enemy.

That and the grief it caused her poor father.

I take it by the Fox News reference you are assuming she is a Republican? Ok, that's fine given that most liberals denounce ignorant sterotypes except when THEY use them...but considering that network always has BOTH SIDES of every issue to represent a topic when neither CNN or MSNBC won't, I think it's funny you associate them with us.

You wanna dance I'll dance with ya...better me than Binkie.

Fox News is balanced? Watch some BBC World News and then I'll discuss world events with you.Since you think that Fox is balanced I know that I can't have a logical discussion with you. If you continue trying to defend Fox News you will be just talking to yourself since I will not respond to any more mention of them.

On the topic of Jane Fonda. That happened over 30 years ago. The only people who EVER bring that up are conservatives looking to bash her specifically or bash people who have an anti-war point of view generally. Since I am a heretical liberal we are not going to agree on this subject at all. I agree to disagree.

No...I don't want to dance. If you want to start an argument start one with another person.

^^ Your mammarys wear combat hoops.

Oh, really? I guess you were confronted with such a situation and chose the path you considered right, didn't you?

No? What do you mean, you're not old enough to join the army, even if you wanted to?

So you never had to make those choices yourself, huh?
Then you're just the type of chickenshit arsehole, who seeing the bully walk away, whispers to his friends: "he's lucky he didn't pick on me. I would've kicked his ass."

No. You wouldn't.

You're a kid.
Basically, summing it all up: you haven't done shit with your life yet. Nothing that matters to anyone outside your family and close friends.
Chances are, you haven't even cleaned up your room today, but here you are, digressing about life and death choices, eternal shame, cowardice and damnation when you haven't even taken out the trash.

Now either make your stance solid (like dowsizing arguements to shit you know something about) or shut the fuck up.

I hate it when people chose the right side of a fight and than say they joined because of all the wrong reasons.

I don't think anybody deserves to be tortured. I don't agree when the US invades other countries BUT that doesn't mean that I think that the soldiers deserve to die. It seems like you have been reading some Marx but taking it to the extreme. As a socialist I actually find your statement to be offensive. Live life a little first before you make such arguments.

I find it ironic that you call those who have served in Vietnam "cowards," while at the same time suggesting that the correct course of action was to run away. Some who have served may not believe in the causes for the conflict, but do feel the need to give something back in the form of service to their country. Those people, especially former POWs like John McCaine, served proudly, and bravely.

So yeah, you calling them "cowards" doesn't cut it, my man. Especially if your reasoning behind calling them such is because they didn't back out and run away. But whatever. You're set in your ways. So I'll tell you what. Why don't you go spit on some soldiers that are just coming back from Iraq? Call them "cowards" too. Do it. Cause you'll end up with a smile that's all gums.

Your trespassing bit is also interesting. Hope you don't live in the US, cause guess who's gaves you'd be living on top of?

Well mutant, you may not be a young kid (although your posts do little to reinforce the notion that you aren't) but you are one thing: ignorant. I'm really not sure what's worse, immaturity or willful ignorance. While I may not agree with some of the current US conflicts abroad, the fact remains NOONE deserves to be tortured. And why the hell do you blame the troops? They were following orders just like any military. If your employer asked you, for example, to fix a car and you disagreed with his position would you tell him you're not going to do it? You aren't if you want to keep your job.

Now It's funny to see your hypocrisy since you: 1. Live in the US, and 2. Aren't in the army/never been in a position to comment about torture. And flaming a person who's been here a heck of alot longer than you really doesn't do much except cement in people's minds that you are just some lazy, ignorant kid. Some advice: stop acting like one.

Your words. I never mentioned anything about genocide and mass murder. No, following orders is not an excuse for anything. The nazi's and hijackers were mass murderers, that's undeniable and true. However, they were also good soldiers as they obeyed their orders unwaveringly. Since you've started the definition game I feel I should at least be able to provide you with a suitable example:

Soldier - a : one engaged in military service and especially in the army b : an enlisted man or woman c : a skilled warrior (Merriam-Webster)

Nowhere does it mention that being a soldier means you have to have a certain set of beliefs or morals. You can be a soldier yet be on the wrong/immoral side of things. Now were a soldier to desert his post in respect to "morals" like saving lives or whatnot, then he'd be a good humanitarian (depending on the circumstances) and possibly a hero...but he'd still be a lousy soldier.

You do so like taking things so out of context that it enters the realm of the ridiculous don't you?

Now see here's that definition game again:

Hypocrisy - a feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not; especially : the false assumption of an appearance of virtue or religion (Merriam-Webster)

Let's see...you're feigning to have a substantiated opinion on matters of torture, US foreign policy, motives for said US foreign policy, actions of soldiers...shall I really go on?

Hey moron, calling you a kid was almost an excuse for your intolerance and prejudice. If you are indeed older, the you ARE indeed a moron, for experience alone would have shown you the world not to be in black and white.

And seen as we do not know just who the fuck you are, I think I'll ask you to post in the INTRODUCE YOURSELF HERE thread like ALL members do. You really are lucky that your posts haven't been erased yet just on account of that.

You are an hypocrite, because there is no compulsory draft in the US and therefore you can blabb all you want about how ou wouldn't go off and kill people in their lands. Funny, why don't you go instead and join the "insurgents".

I'm sure that someone so opposed as you would have joined the Iraqui resistance already.

Be sure to introduce yourself before attempting to post any more bullshit, KID!

You might as well be 25 years old. You're still a fucking kid (just like your momma keeps telling you).

So a soldier following orders deserves to get tortured? Mr. Spock would whip you arse for your ignorant use of logic.

I think that it was you, perhaps, who failed to fully comprehend the whole content of my post (hint: look for the capital letters).

Oh and here's the link in case you were unable to find the thread in the first place:Intro Thread

Well, when Paris Hilton and Heather Graham travel overseas to Iraq, pose in photos with Iraqi insurgents, visit the very sites where hostages are behead/shot/killed, say that stuff never happened there, then come back and paint US and ING forces as liars while denouncing them as part of a propaganda campaign, then I'll get bent out of shape.

A-Fucking-Men!!!

Took the words right out of my mouth..

As always, you are utterly brilliant and without peer..

Nicely said, Beautiful..

i missed all the fun.

rats.

... but the bbc for our news? what the fuck? did we suddenly become england?

BBC World News is the only news that I have watched that is actually unbiased one way or the other. You don't hear opinions, just news. I'd rather watch that than propaganda from one side or the other.

hate to burst your bubble, horrorgirl but all news organizations are subject to some degree of bias. anyone willing to assign full loyalty to a specific media outlet is also willing to allow themselves to be lead by the nose.

whether or not the bbc reports the facts is irrelevant. most news organizations do that. how they persuade you to view them and the points-of-fact they choose to discuss constitute the inherent bias, as it is with any newscaster / news organization - and in that the bbc is as guilty as any other.

That's true. I read a lot of news online besides watching that so I do try to keep an open mind.

horrorgirl how do you explain why CNN flashed a black X over the face of Vice President Dick Cheney during a live speech?

http://www.drudgereport.com/vpotus.JPG

See here for yourself if you doubt.

And what have you seen on Fox News that you considered biased?

I told you that I wasn't going to argue about Fox news. When did I defend CNN and why are you bringing Dick Cheney into this? You're still trying to start an argument with me and it's not going to work.

LOL are you traumatized now?

Apparently so! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v678/AlKilyu/24.gif

While I see now why you try and avoid debates, but you chose to post in the Politics section, more than once, to state your opinion. No one forced you to either.

This was about Columbine, and for a moment there, both sides of the political spectrum here seemed to be united in repudiating a repulsive "member", but here we go again down the road of left & right...
I'm game:

Hang on, is the X on his face as the screen quotes him saying: it is wrong to criticize?
Read the quote as often as you need.

I'll explain the X, then: I must have a soulmate working on CNN.

Next on Cheney's agenda: do not question authority ('cause, you know, they wouldn't LIE to you about important things like why they've sent your kids to war).

.

bah. that question gets asked almost daily from media representatives from around the world - except on the day iraqis voted in that ridiculous election a few days back. no one had a fuckin' thing to say that day.

Mael you are posting in the wrong window again, this is the Jane Fonda's Communost Workout thread, and someone got slammed for being conservative and told that they probably watch Fox News, and that Fox is biased.

Enter the #2 rated cable news network putting a large black X over the face of a political figure they just don't care for.

But apparently this section isn't for debate, it's for potshots...hit and run politics...

uhhhh... mael?

check again, hon. it says, "cheney: 'i do not believe it is wrong to criticize.'"

i'm just sayin' is all.... *shrugs*

Oh, wait, let me get back on topic.
From Fox-news:

LITTLETON, Colo. — A Marine who was a freshman at Columbine High School (search) when two students killed 13 people there was killed in action in Iraq, his family said.

You're right. Fox finally gave me something to think about. Shit man, the kid survived Columbine. But at least he died so that... nevermind.

Ow3ed :)

Thanks

*grin* you're welcome.

I was gone and couldn't defend myself
 

Sorry guys another JANE
Before writing my original comment, I studied up on Jane.
I'm not a republican or a liberal. I Vote for the person I beleive to be better for our country. I don't watch news much, tis true. I did however have an uncle killed in viet nam. I also yearly go to the POW/MIA motorcycle rally in pocatello Idaho. (I'm an apprentice at a small leather company) So I have lots of Viet nam friends.
My little sister (age 16) recently wrote a poem about "hanoi jane" and was accused of plagarism, to which I responded BULLSH*T I watched her write it. So the teacher says he found it on the internet and gives my sis an F. I start looking it up (btw I challenged the teacher and my sis got an A) and find out what Jane Fonda REALLY did and I was entirely offended. If she were not such an Icon she would have been tried as a traitor. **** the army? Rude. I think she would break a nail if she tried shooting a commie. Okay, my panties are in a bunch, because I found out about most of her "activities" and no one from america should treat americans that way. Oh wait I don't wear panties.

posted by horrorgirl

I hear she's doing it again. She's got her vegetable oil van out and about in protest of the iraqi conflict. As a young American i'm not one to sit around and listen to her bullsh*t. I think if enough people know what a traitor she is, they won't get on the bandwagon. BUT then again i'm thinking too much of my peers as to expect them to LOOK UP JANE FONDA and see her sitting on the weapons used to kill our uncles. They'd rather catch up on cnn and bbc. Oh and by the way

I thought you were a horrorgirl

Jane fonda said she was a socialist and said that "if we knew what communism really was we'd get on our knees and pray, beg that we could have a communist society for our kids."
Weren't commie sympathizers hunted down like witches? one word "barbarella"
So yea I feel strong resentment to traitors. Shouldn't you?
Demon

P/S i'm not anti-war, I voted for bush. I'd rather have a coke addict than a traitor (john kerry)

I went to school in oregon near thurston where kids were also killed at school. My school was shut down for two days. Then a week later a kid brought a gun and everyone had to stay inside our classrooms till he was tackled by police. You guys didn't hear THAT did you? I'm just saying news is incomplete and we can't knock fox unless we're knocking all news. Even the paper. Though the DAILY SHOW is often best for insight the news deems it better for us not to hear.
Plus its funny
Demon

If you want to get that worked up over what an ACTRESS did and said over 30 years ago then that is your choice. It does not mean that I have to. I wonder if people are going to get this worked up over what Paris Hilton does and says 30 years from now. If anything this whole topic shows just how much people listen to, and take seriously, the actions of celebrities. Personally, I could care less about what celebrities say because they are just spouting off their opinions like everybody else. Nobody should hold them up to be gods just because they are media whores. It’s all about the cult of personality.

Socialists are considered to be far left liberals. If socialists don’t have liberal leanings then what are they.....conservatives?