Columbine and the MallGoth
 

Today, there was a shootout at a mall in Tacoma, Washington. This story brought me back, to all the shootouts of the past, the ones that I can atleast remember. I have always pondered this question, even before I could fully understand exactly what was going on during the columbine shootouts. Looking around my school, I see many thousands of kids, listening to heavy metal, and spouting out that they are gothic, etc, etc, all the typical signs of the So-Called "MallGoth". For those of you who do not know what a MallGoth is, in basic terms, it is someone who is only Gothic to skindeep levels, so that he or she may feel more, how do I word this, "alike", with the darker side of the world.

Looking around, this seems to all trace back to the poorly executed Columbine shootout. From most of the MallGoths, who would despise the name, they seem to trace thier ideals back to that fateful day, simply because they wish to become a terrorizing force. For some reason they are instinctually driven to make it so that others fear them. This brings me to wonder, what purpose does that serve? Why would they wish to become in like with the two men who ended lives, and wounded others, and forever brought a curse to America?

For some reason, those who I look at, who claim to be Gothic, only started being Gothic, right after Columbine. They look upon that day as thier "Awakening", leaving them, in my eyes, nothing more than a cult. Is it just me, and possibly the enviroment that I live in, to believe that all MallGoths, who are perhaps with the ability to become full fledged Goths, given the right direction, simply wish to reenact columbine?

Then, that makes me wonder, why does no one do it? Why has no one actually emphisized on a full fledged, planned, assualt on a school? Why hasn't there been a coalition of several of the cultish followers of Klebold and Harris suddenly pop up out of nowhere, brandishing the basic weapons, and commit another massacre? Is it just a countdown until a school-doomsday, where everyone wishes to kill everyone else, an explosion of force and violence that brings death to hundreds? It is said that in columbine, had the bombs that the boys made, gone off, many more would have died. Why hasn't it happend, if so many people follow them?

Perhaps I am just mistaken, and mallgoths have nothing to do with school shootouts? Maybe it is just thier insecurities rising? Perhaps I am mistaken, and they are infact truely goths, but I am too blind to see it? Who knows, but is there anyone on this site, who has an opinion, as to why I am seeing these connections, or if there is an answer? Maybe it is just the political rebellious atmosphere of nowaday, or, perhaps it is nothing less than my imagination.

*shakes head* I can't even begin to start on this one tonight.... I have school in the morning......

Matr...?

You are ignored already.

Jeez - where to begin...

That's terrible about the shooting. I've been through Tacoma many times but have never stopped at the mall. I don't care for malls. Still, for as long as there have been kids and a generational gap between kids and parents (meaning pretty much forever) there has been rebellion. Kids, teens, whatever, will often latch onto whatever it is that shocks their gullible close minded parents. This is nothing new. Sometimes some of these kids are fucking nutjobs and do something so horrid that it causes the entire associated youth social circle (whatever it is) to recieve massive negative media attention. This, in turn, brings in a second generation of followers that want, again, to shock and offend authority figures - just because.


I don't think this is entirely true. There may be truth to it - but I'd blame the negative spin on gothy kids by the media after the fact as the culprit than the act itself. See above for why. At that general time frame - before actually - there were also many other explosions in popularity of the whole "Goth" thing, and I use the term losely, through movies, music, comics, and other medium that pushed the "Goth scene" into mainstream culture. Gave it an official label of it's very own - w00t w00t. And... The kids at columbine were certainly NOT men. Nothing even close. I don't have words to describe how disgustingly weak and foolsih boys they were.

Again I don't think this is the case. the timing may be there but I think - and sincerely hope - that that's all it is. Simple timing. I really don't think even 1% of your "Mallgoths" have the fortitude, genuine hatred, and mental aptitude to seriously consider reenacting suck a horrible incident.

Are you asking for it to happen? Maybe it will maybe it won't. There have been far worse tragedies that have happened in schools - some seriously nasty massacres in classrooms going back as far as classrooms go. Just cause one kid with a spiked bracelet and a Slipknot t-shirt goes nuts and starts shooting does not - and I mean NOT - mean that there are thousands of followers ready and willing to do the same. this is not Natural Born Killers. Most of the MallGoths are decent kids that simply haven't got enough self awareness to make their own decisions - let alone pull off a horrific incident.


Mallgoths have nothing to do with school shootouts, any more than MallHoochieMamas have to with gang banger drive by's... They are not True Goths - if there even is such a thing. We've argued that in other threads for years. And again - it's not just nowadays. Think gangsters, rockers, greasers, punks, hippies, goths, I can't even think of them all... labeled youth "social groups" that have been considered the harbingers of doom in modern society over the decades. Don't get sucked into the marketing hype of it all. There are good people and bad people everywhere - no matter what they dress like.

The real question of: Why and how did these unstable kids ever get access to guns or other instruments of destruction? Well that's an excellent question that I can't answer and the media is unable or unwiling to really ask.

I can't understand what to say, mixed emotions about this one.

I read up about that Tacoma, Washington shootout, and specifically read that the man was wearing a dress shirt and a tie.

What the hell does it have to do with goths, whether in malls or not?

Well, first Manimal, thanks for the reply, I'll attempt to get back to that, once I get everything figured out.

And as to Secretboy, since when does it matter what a goth wears? Last time I checked, your "Goth With a Sledgehammer", said that Goths don't neccesarily have to wear anything?

Now, as to how the kids get access to the weapons, well, I have found a number of ways:
1. Theft - Steal the gun, from anyone, anywhere.
2. Parents own the gun, and in unlocked case.
3. Homemade weapons.
4. Friends.
5. Just randomly stumbling on one [It can happen].

The point of the shootout in Tacoma was an intro. And as to the proof point, I ask you, what was your proof that he wasn't? Or why does he have to be? Even though the subject did involve the man in tacoma, it was more aimed to come into shootouts, etc, and the point of the story was to ask, is it that many MallGoths are coming from Columbine? And I believe Manimal answered that quite well.

You could call it fluff, but then, it would also make me wonder if this event, along with every other shootout, battle, conquest, wasn't sponsored by some hate within us, that is universal, and seems to be the basis for the dark stereotype goth's seem to have [From my experience, I am not claiming that all goths are neccesarily dark].

I'm confused. So you have someone who doesn't appear to be goth, and there doesn't seem to be any goth backlash about, or even anyone else mentioning the word 'goth' in association, yet somehow...as far as I can tell...you're connecting it to goths.

Let me go to cnn.com. Let's see...the top headline is about Richard Cheney, titled "Cheney: War debate legitimate" - what does this say about goths like our vice president, and what does it say about goths in general that they are saying the war debate is legitimate?

As for your other point -- is it something in society? I doubt it. The thing is, some people are just wired wrong. Antisocial Personality Disorder has always been around and will likely be around for a while longer. These things happen.

I draw wierd connections, what can I say? The way I draw the connection is like this,

Dark Nature --> Violence --> Stereotypical Goth --> MallGoth --> Student -->Columbine
---------------------------------------------------------->Columbine

That's how I draw the connection. You see, I aassort a dark nature with violence, which is usually a trademark of a stereotypical goth, which are commonly called MallGoths, atleast in my area, and the violence, combined with the typical mallgoth, forms into columbine?

If you can somehow make a different way, so that these things aren't connected, please, by all means, the more I learn, the better I am.

Oh boy, now it gets down to "define goth". Listen, if you want to call that guy in the mall a goth, than any Tom Dick or Harry that shoots a place up is a goth, aren't they?

Yeah, violence exists in all humans. We all have the potential to kill, it just depends on experiences. Read some B.F.Skinner or Sartre. They explain things nicely ^_^

Well, the columbine kids weren't even goth. One of the kids was into KMDFM, an industrial band -- and they were sort of vaguely associated with a group of kids, some of which were goth, who were older and graduated a year before.

One, Eric Harris, was obviously messed up in the head, with a lot of grandiose feelings and an incredible lack of basic empathy for anyone outside of himself. Dylan Kliebold was a misguided kid with a lot of issues with anger, and it's very possible that if he had not associated himself with Eric Harris he would never have done anything bad outside of a few awkward fistfights.

The painting of 'goths' with the Columbine tragedy was the work of the media picking up on the statements of a few people who profited immensely by finding targets for the anger of people who didn't understand what happened.

--

As far as 'dark natures' -- dark natures don't equate with anger and rage. Much like death does not explicitly equal murder (though it can) anger can be a dark nature but not all dark nature is wrath.

I would say that a lot of people who identify with the so-called gothic lifestyle understand that there is a darker, or even shadowy nature to life. They don't pretend it doesn't exist or pretend everything is light and fluffy. But that doesn't mean that they actively seek it out.

the man left a note prior to his rampage, saying in part, according to the news - "... soon, the world will know the depths of my anger".

it's just some angry piece of shit we'll all have to support in prison with our tax dollars 'til the day he dies, rather than ridding the earth of his worthless hide and sparing us the burden. who cares what ideals, beliefs, principles, etc. he ascribes to? he's a murderer.

why do we need to keep him alive, now that he's clearly made the move to show he cares not for human life and has no qualms about taking it from others?

stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid.
ignorant fucker.
stop breathing my air and think before you open your mouth.
matr, you are a stupid, ignorant, narrowminded fool, you dont even deserve a proper response untill you grow a brain.
touchy f**kin' subject.
idiot.

muh.............not going there today sorry. :mad: