Gothic.net Community - Catholics Outrage Causes Sinn Fein to Buckle

Gothic.net Community (https://www.gothic.net/boards/index.php)

- Politics (https://www.gothic.net/boards/forumdisplay.php?f=13)

- - Catholics Outrage Causes Sinn Fein to Buckle (https://www.gothic.net/boards/showthread.php?t=121)

Catholics Outrage Causes Sinn Fein to Buckle

Sinn Fein Suspends Seven After Killing

"Sinn Fein, the political wing of the Irish Republican Army (news - web sites), announced Thursday it has suspended seven members for alleged involvement in a fight in a crowded Belfast pub that ended with the murder of a Catholic man...

...Police and the McCartney family have said more than 50 witnesses in the pub feared the IRA might kill them if they offered evidence to police.

Adams said the McCartney family, citing witnesses' claims, had identified all seven to him as part of the IRA gang that attacked McCartney and Devine...

...Sinn Fein was initially criticized for opposing police efforts to identify McCartney's killers, and more recently for refusing to call for witnesses to talk directly to police..."

Oh man. Sinn Fein's in a whole heep load of shit here. What, with the Bank Hiest, and now this. Looks like the IRA is losing steam amongst Catholics who are tired of this shit. :lol:

Tis old news here. It also leaves out that many of the seven have turned themselves in.

Also leaves out that the McCarthy family has been working WITH Sinn Fein from the beginning.

As a person who has relatives in the neighborhood, I can tell you SF has lost no support there.

There is a video available online called 'Short Strand: A Community Under Siege' that is a must view if you want to see how life is like there.

http://www.irishdemocrat.co.uk/featu...-strand-diary/

Oh this is going to be fun..

Adams bid to calm IRA killing row

Saturday, March 5, 2005 Posted: 12:27 PM EST (1727 GMT)

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe....ap/index.html

DUBLIN, Republic of Ireland (AP) -- Sinn Fein, the Irish Republican Army-linked party under fire over the IRA's killing of a Belfast man and other crimes, invited the victim's sisters into its party conference Saturday in an unprecedented bid to defuse their criticism.

With four sisters of the victim sitting in the front row, Sinn Fein leader Gerry Adams said the killers of Robert McCartney -- among them, allegedly, seven suspended members of Sinn Fein and three expelled members of the outlawed IRA -- "should admit what they did in a court of law. That is the only decent thing for them to do."

In a typically mammoth speech to Sinn Fein's largest annual gathering, Adams offered sympathy but no new commitments to the McCartneys, whose high-profile campaign over the past month has highlighted IRA intimidation of witnesses to the January 30 attack on their brother.

Adams -- whom the Irish government identified last month as an IRA commander -- said witnesses should "come forward." But he didn't specify they should talk to the Northern Ireland detectives trying to gather evidence on the mob that fatally knifed and beat McCartney, 33, outside a Belfast pub.

So far, police say, none of 72 potential witnesses has given them a statement.

The McCartney case has highlighted a major obstacle in the peace process -- whether Catholics will cooperate with the mostly Protestant police force in Northern Ireland. Sinn Fein rejects current efforts to reform the police, while the IRA reserves the right to kill anybody who tells police about IRA activities.

Protestants say they won't cooperate again with Sinn Fein until the IRA disarms and disbands. They cite both the McCartney killing and the Dec. 20 robbery of a Belfast bank -- when the IRA allegedly stole a world-record £26.5 million (€38 million; $50 million) -- as the worst recent examples.

Ulster Unionist leader David Trimble, whose moderate Protestant party formed a power-sharing administration involving Sinn Fein that collapsed in 2002, told his own party conference Saturday in Belfast that Sinn Fein must become "a purely peaceful, democratic movement with no private army." He ruled out renewed negotiations until that happened.

In his speech, Adams qualified the IRA's right to commit crimes and said the group could not be "wished away, or ridiculed or embarrassed or demonized or repressed out of existence."

"We know that breaking the law is a crime," Adams said. "But we refuse to criminalize those who break the law in pursuit of legitimate political objectives."

Irish Foreign Minister Dermot Ahern, speaking before Adams' speech, said Sinn Fein and the IRA were "one organization" and emphasized that any new negotiations involving Sinn Fein would focus on the need to secure the IRA's disarmament and disbandment.

But in one sign of the unusual political isolation facing Sinn Fein, no U.S. members of Congress attended the conference for the first time in more than a decade.

The main international guests instead came from South Africa's African National Congress, the Palestinian Authority and Basque separatists from Spain.

( THIS IS MY FAVORITE PART ):

The Bush administration on Thursday confirmed that Sinn Fein, as well as other Northern Ireland parties, would not be invited to the White House for St. Patrick's Day for the first time since 1995.

The McCartney sisters plan to travel to the United States on March 15, two days before St. Patrick's Day, to lobby Irish-American circles for support.

Now what was that you were saying again??

Oh yeah, this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by CptSternn

Also realise this - this St. Patricks day, like every paddy's day since the 70's your own gw will be sitting down to dinner with Gerry Adams, Martin McGuinness, and Gerry Kelly. If they are terrorists, then bush is inviting terrorists to dinner.

Afterwards, there will be a $250 a plate dinner to raise money for Sinn Fein, in DC, with gw and many other righ ranking politicos attending.

I had the pleasure of being there 2 years ago. This year though, the group has already been choosen.

So feel free to call us names, throw your limited knowledge out there, and bitch here on the gothic.net forum. While your doing that, we will be meeting with the president of your country and making changes to your government.

Slán

One more time for the boys and girls at home:

The Bush administration on Thursday confirmed that Sinn Fein, as well as other Northern Ireland parties, would not be invited to the White House for St. Patrick's Day for the first time since 1995.

Thanks for playin..

Buh-Bye..

:D

EPS, that was so beautiful I wish to use my most treasured pwnag3 in my collection. It is my favorite, and you deserve it.

http://tinypic.com/2138d3

Uhh.... how uh..... is there a story behind this?

:lol:

It once again shows bush's lack of tact. He has un0invited all northern irish parties, include the LAbor party members (Blair's people) so it's not just SF.

Second, since his bush visit is now off, if you notice my other article Gerry will be spending the day with the Senate Foriegn Relations committee, much more influential and yes, will have an effect.

Slán

Quote:

Originally Posted by CptSternn

Gerry will be spending the day with the Senate Foriegn Relations committee, much more influential and yes, will have an effect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CptSternn

Afterwards, there will be a $250 a plate dinner to raise money for Sinn Fein, in DC, with gw and many other righ ranking politicos attending.

Funny how people will cross their party lines just to get at some personal attacks...

NI Politicians at White House

Politicians in the United States believe it is only a matter of time before Sinn Fein takes its seats on the Policing Board.

Republican Congressman Peter King, who is said to be close to Gerry Adams, said the party should "be there".

"Their goal in the short term should be to find a way to be part of the Policing Board.

"Whether or not more changes have to be made or whether or not more reforms have to be implemented, it should still be there within the near future."

Democrat Joe Crowley echoed that view, but said Sinn Fein's decision on policing could not be seen in isolation.

"It cannot be taken out of context and say you deal with this and this is what you need to do without having a look at other outstanding issues like militarisation and the call for the demilitarisation of some of the border areas like south Armagh where the is still a great deal of military presence," said Mr Crowley.

BBC NI political editor Mark Devenport said the Washington St Patrick's Day festivities will not produce any great political advances as in previous years.

But US officials will be satisfied if they can give policing a symbolic nudge forward.

...Just sayin'.

And now that I'm positive this is going to be twisted around into a "TEAPOTSCAR IS A TERRORIST!" thing with pictures and everything, I will say that I don't care whether or not Sinn Fein was invited, because it's not going to be a huge political event, this year. It says in the article: "St. Patrick's Day festivities will not produce any great political advances as in previous years." Previous years... when Sinn Fein *was* there.

I don't know, I just think this is all one big personal-attack thread. And I hate that.

There are a number of threads all over this board with personal attacks, you being in most of them.

And no one on the red side told Asurai to "suck their dick" because they didn't agree with his politics.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TeapotScar

And now that I'm positive this is going to be twisted around into a "TEAPOTSCAR IS A TERRORIST!"

Seriously, people. she is. I know. I came back from class one day and a meeting was just getting out.... a meeting of TERRORISTS. How rude. She didn't even invite me. [Wait, maybe that was just the weekly orgy.]
Although our room's pretty small. Being a terrorist ringleader, I don't know, I'd think it would take more space. [Orgies, on the other hand... They probably don't need as much room snce everyone's naked and, you know, "fit together."]

Quote:

I don't know, I just think this is all one big personal-attack thread. And I hate that.

Heh.

Why is that quote in large text? "Should be there?" Why not just find an article that said they were... in March of 2003 when that news article was published.

Anywho... they were there in the past, but there's enormous political pressure that's coming down on Sinn Fein now in 2005, as even Sternn will tell you (or not). McDowell calling Adams an IRA commander, the recent IRA murder that's lead to 7 Sinn Fein members.... well... read the article, and bank hiest are bringing political sanctions down on the party. Is it any surprise that they're not being invited this year? The White House said they weren't inviting them because they've done nothing to move the peace process along.

First off, I don't know why you justify your personal attacks on Sternn by saying that me and Asurai had a personal brawl. Because you all *hated* that. Loathed it, wanted me to stop posting, or just kill myself all together. You guys freaked out about that, I'm not even freaking out! I'm just sayin'...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Granny-like_the_apple

Well, like you said- you were in class. I'm sorry you can't be involved in this months operation, but next month I'll get you in at the ground-level. As for the orgies, I don't know- I'll have to ask around, see what the other'd think of an asexual joining the frenzy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TeapotScar

I had said, if you remember, when you did it, we would remember next time we were accused of name calling or personal attacks.

And no one wanted you gone knucklehead. Well maybe Grannny...

Quote:

Originally Posted by TeapotScar

Dat's coo. [What she said.]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlKilyu

And no one wanted you gone knucklehead. Well maybe Grannny...

Duh, she's a terrorist!

First, Adams has been named, by government officials, for almost 20 years now. It happens about every 6 months or so some new government official comes out with this 'revelation'.

But as Adams said on his live TV appearnce during the news Sunday night (a few weeks back when this happened), he said 'if I am then then arrest me. I say to you - put up or shut up'.

A grand line and great show on TV. See, membership in the IRA is a crime that until 98 was punishable by death in the north. No trial, no judge, soldiers shot on site any 'suspected' member of the IRA. Thanks to president clinton and the GFA, that has changed, however now you can get prison time still if your even suspected. So if the government, especially the minister of justice, thought he really had enough proof wouldn't he have the man arrested? Once again, a politician playing political football with no evidence of anything.

A similar situation would be Ashcroft coming out and saying Kerry was a senior member of Al Queda or something of the sort, then not doing anything other than repeating it on the news during the elections (yes, tis that time up here - election time).

OR maybe its more like what bush did with the made-up swift boats group. Depends on how you look at it.

Bottom line is, if this man was a member, and they had ANY evidence, they would have slapped cuffs on him and drug him away a long tmie ago. But they can't, because they have nothing.

Even now, have you seen the news about the bank raids and the proported money laundering? Turns out the millions they seized MAY have been illegal, but MAY have been legal funds, but bottom line is NONE that they seized in cork can be linked to the bank raids.

So once again, the media runs with the story given them by political figures and gets it wrong. Instead of fixing it worldwide like they do here, I'm guessing the media in the states just stopped carrying the story - thats usually what they do now.

Also, once again, ALL parties are not invited, so bushes actions are not some personal dig at SF. I mean, there are half a dozen other parties NOT invited (ALL NI politicans were not invited). It doesn't reallt bother anyone, because everyone, including the parties involved in parliment like labor, tory, and green, feel that bush has HURT the peace process here more than anything, so some were talknig of a boycott to begin with. Most think bush didnt invite them to keep them from boycotting his part first anyway.

I mean, from bush's speech he gave here there were a few grand things that happened. First he went to belfast, and said on the news 'i love ireland this is a great country, and its good to be here in the capital'. Once again, for those here who haven't heard me say it, Northern Ireland is a separate country, so the media had a field day with bush, who is there to talk about peace and doesn't even know what country he is in (and not knowing this pretty much means he has no idea about the conflict here).

Then he goes on during his speech to say, and i quote 'to all those out there who are taking up arms for freedom, lay down those arms, as violence and war have never solved anything'. This was just weeks after invading Iraq. Needless to say people once again had a good laugh about this.

Finally, he went on live news for an interview, and the reoorter hit him with the best questions EVER. I mean she said 'do you think you lied about the WMDs'? Where are they? You said you knew they had them, and she continued on down this line of questioning on live tv. Bush got PISSED, threw off his mike and walked out, cursing the whole way on live TV. I got this along with the other things mentioned in MOV format if anyone wants to see em.

So you see, the bush thing is not a big deal. Adams will be busy in the senate that day anyway as the Foregin Relations Committee want some updates on whats really happening there.

Slán

Well, no one here really thinks it's a big deal either. In fact, Northern Ireland, period, is not really a big deal in the grand scheme of things. But you were pointing out not too long ago that Adams, after all of this political turmoil, was going to bumping elbows with W, which he isn't.

Course everyone over there is trying to dance around the issue of Adams and the IRA heist, as no one wants the IRA back out onto the streets in their masks causing all hell again. I'm sure Britain and Ireland don't feel like dealing with that crap for the time being - at least not until they have a smoking gun rather than just picking up pockets of laundered money in IRA members' possession. An arrest can't be made without causing major problems in Northern Ireland, so they sanctioned the party instead.

Hey, the first good post I've seen, well ever. And your on the money.

No one wants to relive the troubles in the 70's-80's. Thing is, the provos are still among us. They don't go out blowing shit up and killin soldiers anymore BECAUSE of the peace process, only problem is over the past 9 years since they agreed to it, the british government has stalled on implementing any of the changes.

The put in stormont - but then last years before elections they canclled the power sharing and elections because 'they found a disk that was going to the ira' and that disk supposedly had names and info of all the top politicans on it. They arrested 8 people and charged em. Blair cancelled the elections (thats right, cancelled the elections), and said the NI get no government and he will rule it from britian like before.

Six months later the disk 'disappeared' and all charges were dropped and the 8 were all sent home with apologies as the british government said ti was all a misunderstanding. They had the elections, but even though they have a government in NI now, blair has yet to give it ANY power. They do nothing, they dont even meet, the representatives just listen to the peoples problems and send letters to blair - thats it. No voting, no discussion, nada.

Tis not the first time. Since it's induction the british government also has blamed the omagh bombing on the provos, and then SF, but it later turned out to be a dissadent republican group now known as the rIRA (totally seperate and unconnected accept for the similar name). Either way the british blamed SF and then stopped the joint policing in the north and pulled all catholics from the policing board (the group that looks into police brutality, pay offs, etc).

So this new bank raid blame is nothing new. Every time SF gets things rolling and the people get happy and it looks like the brits will lose power and actually have to implement the promises they signed up for in the GFA, 'something' happens and it looks like the IRA had something to do with it.

Tis the same game they have played for 9 years now, NOT moving forward.

If goes back further than this is your interested in looking into Keith and Kenneth Littlejohn. They were robbing banks in 1972, in the biggest stirng of bank raids ever. After they accidentally got caught, turns out they were MI5 agents, working for the british government robbing banks and killing people and making it look like they IRA. There are books on this and other such events over the past few decades. Tis why britian calls this it's 'dirty war'.

britian has a long history of this. But don't take my word for it - browse the web.

I found this one as well:

http://www.cpgb.org.uk/worker/565/sinnfein.htm

Things you might not seen about the bank raid:

50,000 was found inside a police rec centre in the safe. A majority of the rest siezed was from loyalist connected groups. Only a small portion was republican related. Also note they found the van used, in a loyalist neighborhood. Alas, none of this is being trumpted on the news now, just put on page 12 of the paper in small print.

Slán

Quote:

Originally Posted by CptSternn

Hey, the first good post I've seen, well ever.

Really??

Gee, you must keep missing THESE?

That's ok, I'm here to help.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Empty_Purple_Stars

Quote:

Originally Posted by CptSternn

The irony being, every post is a picture, and yes they are for me. No logical responses, just my minions creating for me!

Just in case you accidentally missed this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Empty_Purple_Stars

Quote:

Originally Posted by CptSternn

I'd be happy to respond to ANY intellegent discussion, but looking at your last dozen posts prior to that one, all you post is a silly pictures that are unrelated to the topic of the post, so how can anyone repond to that?

I mean, 100% of all threads here started in this discussion end up in personal attacks on me.

Slán

Below is just a SAMPLING of some of the intelligent responses and QUESTIONS you have been asked and chose to ignore or side step, some of these are from before NOVEMBER of last year. Gee is this a pattern?

You are going to have to do better than ' I would respond if there was anything to respond to ', that is a weak and embarassing argument even for you.

Here's a highlight:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Binkie

Quote:

Originally Posted by CptSternn

Someone brought up the fact that Kofi Annan's son was being investigated for allegedly helping Sadaam get around the oil for food programme and make untold billions.

Well, he was absolved about a week ago and is no longer being investigated.

Oh yeah? No longer investigated? Where'd you hear about this? Oh wait, do you personally know Kofi or Kojo Annan? Cause your personal experience would totally win you this arguement right here and now if you just said so. But if not, cite something. Because as far as I'm aware, the Senate Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs is still investigating him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Granny-like_the_apple

Quote:

Originally Posted by CptSternn

Granny - the unclear question is answered in the first article - the previous article where is was unclear was posted a day before.

Actually, the dates you quoted are the same-February 16.

Quote:

It further was updated today on the front page of the Washington Post.

With a correction. I don't know what it means in practical terms of guilt and shit, but here it is: A Feb. 17 article on U.S. acquiescence in illicit oil shipments from Iraq to Jordan cited an e-mail identifying the official who allowed the shipments as an employee of the Treasury Department's Office of Foreign Assets Control. The Treasury Department, which declined to comment while the article was being prepared, subsequently said she did not work for the department. The official, who declined to discuss her role in the trade, has acknowledged that she was working for the State Department at the time. The State Department declined to comment on the transaction.

Quote:

So your actually saying that the Seneates Internal Investigation Committee and the CIA would friviously post something like this with no evidence? And then the Washington Post would put it on the front page 3 days in a row with no sources? If you read the article, the Treasury Dept. has admitted to this, the paper trail is there.

Oh, please. I asked if it was true, I never said that it wasn't. You presented it awkwardly-two articles from the same day, about the same thing, the second saying the response was unclear. Still doesn't change the fact that you have a one-track mind and that facts don't usually concern you.

How do you respond to this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by I

Not excusing the Bushies, but WHAT? They're to blame for turning a blind eye but not the countries that were illegally buying oil?

Quote:

Originally Posted by you

So if anyone is to blame for Sadaam getting around the food-for-oil, it looks like its the bush admin.

I don't know where you got this from: "So the bush admin got to sell off illegal oil."

Also still wondering why you said Kojo Annan was "absolved."

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlKilyu

Quote:

Originally Posted by CptSternn

Hahah, quite a laugh today. You think 15% of the ocuntry voting, only the rich who had bodyguards and those who lived close enough to the green zone...

Quote two or more sources that back that up. Back it up.

The article below says different, so I will denote with an * where this comes into question.

World Leaders Praise Iraqi Vote
Monday, January 31, 2005
Associated Press

Quote:

Originally Posted by Asurai

Quote:

Originally Posted by CptSternn

And why is it the US thinks this way of life if better than ones elsewhere and wants to force it upon other nations by bombing them until they submit to having a starbucks on every corner and a mcdonalds on every street?

The US is not concerned with improving the well-being of billions of persons in the world. Spreading democracy and freedom is the precept used for the agenda: the US wants to protect itself.

3,000 civilians were murdered on a single day. Iran, a fundamentalist Islamic theocracy, is on the verge of developing a nuclear weapon. Iran cannot hit us with any missile in its capability, but it can easily give a nuclear device to the same terrorists who have already demonstrated that they don't like us.

Democratic countries don't breed terrorism. A "free" society does not breed terrorism. A prosperous economy does not breed terrorism. Attack the social roots, and you attack the entire movement... which means that we get to wake up safer in the end.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loy

Wolf-and I appologise for jumping towards the Smith & Wesson.

Sternn-Which clan are you from? Which county? And if the citizens of Eire are so close, do you have any cool stories of getting plastered with U2, or good-old-Sinead, or even My Bloody Valentine? Sorry, but your statement reeks of....well, bullshit. I mean you're talking about a country with a population similar to any major metropolitan area here in the US. Now, I live in Seattle, and as many people I know here (both personally and extranously), I know my little Friendster-like circle of acquaintances/friends/etc wouldn't even come close to HALF of the population up here...even if I went by 10 degrees of separation. And I am personally aquainted with almost every bartender in town (which makes people want to talk to me...if only to get stronger drinks).

And as for your knowledge of the "Irish Heart"...OK, I'm guessing you're just as brazen about your pro-IRA stance in public as you are here. Now, people around you know you're pro-IRA, maybe a little pro-active for the cause...do you really think people are (for the most part) going to be totally upfront with you about what they think about the "problems" (which, as my friend just told me the other day when I called her up, are nowhere near as bad as the problems she saw when she came to visit me)? I mean, say I'm sitting in a bar, and some Guido walks up to me, hand in jacket, and says "hey, you got a problem with the mob?". Do you REALLY think I'm going to say "yes I do"?...well, I probably would 'cause I can be a dumbass at times...but most people WOULDN'T. Again, please keep your cognative dissonance in check.

As for your remark about Seattles distance from Eire....let me throw the question back at you-what fucking right do you have to assume all Americans are the way you describe us as being, if you chickened out of staying here for any major length of time? And what right do you have for speaking for the many, many non-americans around the world? See, this is my major beef with you-you like putting people into little, easy-to-describe boxes. Me being a 30 year....err, "21" year old, I've lived long enough to know that not everybody is alike. I mean, hell, I'm Filipino, Sicilian, Geman, Polish, Zulu, and Blackfoot. (and my youngest boy's mom is Irish and Jewish, while the oldest's mom is French, Scottish, and Swedish....which means that I've forbidden them from going to either Mississippi or Tennesse until they can handle small arms decently). As proud as I am of my multiple heritages, I know that I cannot speak for the Filipino community, or the Blackfoot tribe, or the extended Sicilian family. Know why? Because I'm not their leader, and none of them have ever asked me to be. And to be honest, I'm glad. I don't want to be in the position of trying to tie down everybody into a bundle of constrictive types, which is what you're trying to do. I mean, hell, look at the americans on this board....can you say that I'm exactly like .batterypoison., or Alkilya, or Wolfmoon, or Teapotscar, ad infinitum and vice versa? No, but I don't toss out the "you're different from me" line as an excuse to dismiss them (and I'm guessing they don't do the same with me...I am willing to be wrong, though), and in fact, the fact that they ARE different from me, and articulate about why they are who they are is what makes me respect them....I guess what I'm calling you out on being is a hypocrite-you say you're against insularity and stereotyping and dominance of one group over another, yet you're guilty of doing exactly those things. You're just as bad as all those anti-fag-and-modern-society republicans, and it sucks for the posters on this board because WE are (I think. I know I am) trying to reach a point where we agree more than disagree, and where we can understand each others point of view. You, on the other hand, are just a reactionary guttersnipe that's no better than that pissed off pubescant who's angry because he's not getting laid enough, whose every remark lack any kind of thought or critical understanding, and are just a bunch of reactionary statements and half-formed facts. I take their opinions with a pound of salt, just like yours.

And this goes into the Sinn Fein thing....see, Sinn Fein were the ones that came out and basically said "this violence-and-terrorism thing...it's bullshit, and we're sorry that it's gotten to this point. We can't repair the damage we've done, but we'd like to start changing to make a better Ireland". Does thi excuse their past? Not really. Does this mean they're any less Pro-Ireland. Hell no! It just means that they figured out that there ARE other ways of working towards your goal. (Hell, when those fucktard rogue IRA members broke the cease-fire back in '98, wasn't it the Sinn Fein that went after the perpetrators? Why...in fact it WAS.) See, they grew up and learned how to listen and communicate. And I am asking...PLEADING...for you to do the same.

Quote:

Originally Posted by .BatteryPoison.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CptSternn

Your once again drudging up inacurate information. Thats the problem with the US today - people have been lied to so much they believe it. From 2 weeks ago:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6180176/

NEW YORK - Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said in a speech that he knew of no clear link between the al-Qaida terror network and Saddam Hussein,

So if your arguing you know of a tie, you might wanna call up the Defense Department, because in their address to their allies, they made it clear they had absolutely no evidence.

The Defense Department kinda has it's hands full. I hope Yahoo news will suffice: Article
"Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said in a speech that he knew of no clear link between the al-Qaida terror network and Saddam Hussein, although he later backed off the statement and said he was misunderstood."

Quote:

They will argue that hey, this does effect me, but i mean really, if another iraqi dies or bush declares martial law in iraq, are you going to miss a meal?

Tomorrow? Nope. When US troops were occupying Saudi Arabia a decade ago and some muslim radical got all fussy about it, did that affect anyone here in America? On September 11th, 2001 it did. Did the events that unfolded after September 11th cause the loss of jobs? Yes. Did people miss meals because of this? Yes. Did some seemingly insignificant event that happend half way around the world end up effecting people back here in the states? Yes. Are you familiar with the Butterfly Effect, Sternn? This is why many people, reguardless of if they're in the middle of a conflict or not, care. Why else do we care? Cause we have the power to change things by voting. It's called Democracy.

Quote:

As long ya you get your rent paid, your car insurance paid, and have enough money to fuck off to the mall and buy the latest pop album, most yanks give ashit less about real problems as they have none.

That's correct. People living in neighborhoods here in America where gang violence takes the lives of innocent bystanders daily don't have any real problems.

Here's something else that's kinda interesting. Many of the Saudi nationals who were aboard the planes durring 9/11 were from the middle class in their own country. They didn't have to deal with some foriegn country coming in and shooting up the neighborhood. They didn't have to deal with real problems, as you say. These are people who would spill their thoughts out from "cushy chairs," yet they they sure as hell played a big part in world history. But at the end of the day, their thoughts don't matter, right? I mean, what could they actually do with those insignificant thoughts? They haven't lived the "Hard Knock Life," therefore their thoughts don't carry any weight.

Quote:

How many of them have you met in the states?

Ask Loy.

Quote:

Every seen a child that has been so hidiously disfigured by bomb shrapnel, they barely appear human? I'm guessing your answer is no.

That's the beauty of the media. They have the power to show us these things (and do). The answer is "Yes."

Quote:

Until you experience the policies on THIER end, hear about what the policies did to them, then you have no right to sit back in your cushy chair in your air conditioned/central air heated home and judge these people.

Tell me, from your cushy chair, who's judging these people?

Quote:

I say visit the people, not the media or government propoganda, to get the story. Look in their eyes, break bread at their house, hear their story, THEN tell me you still feel the same way.

Why don't you come to America and get an idea of what America is really about by visiting with the KKK. Listen to their story. No? How about the Black Panthers? Point is, you can travel to a country and talk with people who have been subjected to lots of propaganda in their lives, and yet learn absolutely nothing about what that country really feels about what's really going on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OmmadDawn

Quote:

Originally Posted by CptSternn

NEW YORK - Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld said in a speech that he knew of no clear link between the al-Qaida terror network and Saddam Hussein,

The Bush Administration, EVERY time they've made a statement about the connection, have always made similar statements.

However, Americans who support the administration keep making the connection. So the Bush gang can deny it all they want, but Bubba still thinks we went into Iraq to save us from Al Qaeda. IMHO the Republicans know that the vast majority of their constituents hear what they want to hear, and take advantage of the fact.

So, to the Republicans on this site, who are intelligent people, please tell me...

Why do you keep thinking the Iraq invasion had anything to do with Al Qaeda?

Why, in your opinion, we were putting this Saddam out of power instead of focusing on the war against Al Qaeda, and the rebuilding of Afghanistan? I mean, couldn't it just wait?

Also, very unanswered -- do you REALLY think we're going to set up an actual Democracy in Iraq with a 60% Shiite population living there?

Yup, nothing but a bunch of Owned pics from all of us.

When your right, Boy your right..

I would have answreed every one of those thread had ye not combined them all into one. It makes it hard to follow 12 different subjects at once. Why not break them back up into logical points of interest and then repost them and we can debate them here?

Also,

Sinn Fein gives ovation to stabbed man's sisters

The sisters of a Belfast man they claim was murdered by members of the IRA received a standing ovation from 2,000 delegates at Sinn Fein's annual conference in Dublin last night.
Earlier Catherine McCartney confirmed she and her four sisters had agreed to an invitation to attend the party's centenary conference during which the Sinn Fein president Gerry Adams called for her brother's killers to admit their guilt.

They were led into the conference hall by Adams before his televised keynote speech to his party and sat in the front row flanked by him and the Sinn Fein justice spokesman Gerry Kelly.

Prior to his speech, Adams said: 'They [the sisters] are here on my invitation, as I wanted to demonstrate that we are all on their side.'

In his address he said the McCartney murder was a huge issue because it was alleged some republicans were involved.

He said: 'Those responsible for the brutal killing of Robert McCartney should admit what they did in a court of law. That is the only decent thing for them to do. Others with information should come forward. I am not letting this issue go until those who have sullied the republican cause are made to account for their actions.'

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Northern_I...431626,00.html

Even more imporantly, all suspects arrested in the Northen Bank raid have been released, without charge. Thats right - everyone arrested is now free, and there is no proof anyone arrested, nor any of the money they took, is connected to the Northern Bank raid. Of course, this is only mentioned on the news for a second, and has yet to hit any international news wire (go figure), but the men are all back with their families and legal proceedings to get back the seized money is now underway.

Slán

Quote:

Originally Posted by CptSternn

But as Adams said on his live TV appearnce during the news Sunday night (a few weeks back when this happened), he said 'if I am then then arrest me. I say to you - put up or shut up'.

So the poor guy has a stuttering problem too?

Quote:

OR maybe its more like what bush did with the made-up swift boats group. Depends on how you look at it.

Made up? Prove that those men didn't serve, that any of them weren't actually there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CptSternn

Nice try. And by nice try I mean not so much. First of all, in the not-so-distant past, you've used this different excuse: "So each thread, all I see is personal attacks. Check your last posts (you can see them under your use info on the top menu).

All pictures, no comments, just hand slapping with other people who have gone totally off topic and just post pictures."

Same bullshit, different color.

Second of all, the first two responses that EPS quoted, from me and Binkie, were in a thread you started that has a total of seven posts in it. NOT in a merged thread. BP's and OmmadDawn's are in World Politics and Ethics-also not merged. I don't know where the others are, but this doesn't matter. You've ignored threads big and small.

Oh, and "It makes it hard to follow 12 different subjects at once"? Yeah... Who's the one who starts ten different threads every time he signs on?

So in conclusion, your defense is crap, in every way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Granny-like_the_apple

"All pictures, no comments, just hand slapping with other people who have gone totally off topic and just post pictures."

Same bullshit, different color.

http://tinypic.com/28qn11

Quote:

So in conclusion,

http://tinypic.com/28qmw0

Just an update for those still following the original post...

Bertie retracted all of his statements claiming Adams and his collegues are IRA members, the money seized hasn't been found to be illegal and will be returned within a matter of months if they can't find any illegal sources, and all republicans arrested have been set free with no charges.

Of course I'm sure you haven't seen this on the news in the states. They put it on the back page of the papers here.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/ne...p?story=622523

Mystery of seized £3m

By Brian Hutton

22 March 2005
The Garda has not yet linked cash seized in a series of raids in the Republic over a month ago to the Northern Bank robbery, it was confirmed last night.

The admission appeared to be at odds with claims by Taoiseach Bertie Ahern that police were satisfied cash recovered in Cork and Dublin was connected to the pre-Christmas £26.5m heist in Belfast.

Almost £3m in sterling - including £60,000 in Northern Bank notes - was seized by gardai as part of a money-laundering probe in February.

But despite weeks of forensic and technical tests, there has been no confirmation of any links between the confiscated cash and the December robbery at the Northern Bank's headquarters.

In an interview for BBC's Hearts And Minds programme, Mr Ahern said police are certain that the cash "was part of the haul from the North".

He added: "Before I went to the United States, the position of the gardai was that they had done an enormous amount of forensic tests.

"But they are quite satisfied - professionally, absolutely and totally satisfied - as I understand it, that this money was part of the haul from the North."

However, gardai in Dublin last night refused to confirm the statement.

A Garda spokeswoman said: "There's no further development in that investigation."

Meanwhile, Mr Ahern yesterday said he had no clear evidence that Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness were members of the IRA's 'army council'.

In an interview with Channel Four news, broadcast last night, Mr Ahern was asked if he believed both men to be on the army council.

He said: "I have said that is a view that I don't disagree with, but I don't have the evidence to show it.

"And, of course, it's denied by Sinn Fein and it's denied by them. Until I can see clear evidence, I can never say yes to that question - I've never seen clear evidence."

The Republic's Minister for Justice, Michael McDowell, had previously named both politicians - and party colleague Martin Ferris - as members of the army council.

He made the allegation based on intelligence available to him as Justice Minister, he said. All three deny the allegation.