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It passed.
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Oh, and BTW: Attn all lib-bots: engage order 66! |
Hey there..my post had nothing to do with anyone dying... it was just ruined with the talk of milk and cookies.
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I suspect that the 2010 elections will skew conservative in a tea party/right wing/anti-abortion reaction, and the Democrats might lose their majorities in both House and Senate. And this will then inspire an attempt to repeal the whole thing. In the meantime there will be much crowing and gnashing of teeth.
I am disappointed that the conservatives stooped to such vicious animosity in trying to drum up opposition to HCR, and I am disappointed that liberals did so much demonizing of the health insurance industry in trying to drum up support. It's not a perfect bill, and parts of it desperately need revision. When will we be able to read the actual bill that the President is going to sign? |
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We should rejoice that the only opposition to more progress is a mere caricature. |
Yeah, I still think that the tea baggers are too crazy for huge numbers to support them. I think by the time the 2010 elections come around everyone will realize "hey, we're not dead yet!" or have sobered their views quite a bit.
If Ben is right though, I'm going to move further away from the border I think. |
You're both forgetting that there was already an anti-incumbent backlash in recent elections before this bill passed. It's already impacted the Democrats and made this a closer vote than it would have been had it been voted on last fall.
Texas Governor Rick Perry, a man I don't care for much but who I know to be a very skilled politician, just recently rebuffed a strong conservative challenger in Kay Bailey Hutchinson (who from all predictions should have won) simply by portraying her as a Washington insider. And I foresee that anti-incumbent backlash trending up in coming elections. |
Also, I like how the BBC writes it:
"...extending healthcare to an additional 32 million Americans as a historic advance in social justice." I like how they say it's "a historic advance in social justice." Seriously, only in America could people be so fucking stupid as to be angry about healthcare. While the rest of the world complains it's not enough, here they complain about the principle itself. Why do some insist on pretending to live in 1776? |
I'm sort of anticipating something like what happened with Medicare and Harry Truman.
There were tons of people losing their minds over that, and it ended up a huge success. The conservatives are going to continue to freak out for a while, though honestly, the bill isn't even that radical. As Ben pointed out in CrazyMcRightWingNutJob's thread, the plan is actually fairly similar to Nixon's health care plan. Hey Saya, any idea on how similar/dissimilar the HCR is to Canada's system? |
Despanan, any idea when we will actually be able to read the final version that the President is going to sign into law?
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Here's something posted on a facebook called Socialism Doesn't Work:
Doug Scott Page 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill: Doctors: It doesn't matter what specialty you have trained yourself in -- you will all be paid the same! (Just TRY to tell me that's not Socialism!) Then you get some twenty outraged posts about how we can fall into totalitarianism. Seriously, I wouldn't expect them to actually read those two lines, but how the fuck can they believe a bill would be written in that kind of language? It really doesn't raise any bullshit alarms in their heads? Here was my response: "Page 241 Line 6-8 HC Bill: Doctors: It doesn't matter what specialty you have trained yourself in -- you will all be paid the same! (Just TRY to tell me that's not Socialism!)" What I will say is that that's not Page 241 Line 6-8 of the HR3200. Have you actually read the bill or you just like speaking against it? Here are lines 6-8 in page 241, word for word: "Service categories established under this paragraph shall apply without regard to the specialty of the physician furnishing the service." This paragraph is in regards to the previous page, detailing a separation of service categories into basically those services which are codified, and those that don't. All this means is that the healthcare bill applies to all health services. Just as any other bill mentions how its application will apply to all the particulars of said bill. No mention about money whatsoever. Not even close. Once again I reiterate; there's so many legitimate reasons to dislike socialism. Why do you feel the need to simply lie and create red herrings to hate it? They didn't actually address it. |
I haven't gone over it all yet but its not that similar to our system at all. Here no one pays into a plan or anything, every citizen is covered under their provincial Medical Care Plan so coverage changes from province to province, but generally anything you go to the hospital for is free, the only thing I ever had to pay for thus far is prescriptions. You can get insurance to cover prescriptions and private hospital rooms and vision and dental, wheras I believe America's Plan is going to make it so you don't get rejected for a pre existing condition, here you can when it comes to buying insurance. Most places that I have worked at though lets you opt into the company health care plan within a time frame where your previous conditions don't come into play, and my university covers everything but insulin for full time students. On your own it sucks to buy insurance, but through work or school its not so bad. Oh, and abortion is totally free, except in New Brunswick.
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There's concern that the second House bill, the one that "fixes" the objectionable parts of the previously passed Senate-confirmed bill, may not clear the Senate itself. And it probably will go back to the House again before it can be finalized:
The House passed the overhaul — now what? - 21 out of 22 times, reconciliation legislation has been sent back to House And, early last week MSNBC commentator and former Democratic Chief of Staff to the Senate Finance Committee Lawrence O'Donnell said that the bill was unlikely to pass because of the Senate Parliamentarian. Then I read this today: Health Care Bill Puts Senate Parliamentarian in Crossfire So, it really could come down to one person's interpretation of whether certain language in the bill can be interpreted as "a recommendation." |
Honestly, the cynicist in me says that this won't last the decade.
That being said, at this point any step forward is an improvement. |
You're not a cynic ... I'm a cynic. I"ll prove it.
You said "at this point, any step forward is an improvement." I don't see that a concrete step forward has been taken yet. And as a true cynic, I say false hope is worse than no hope. |
Sooooo its a little too soon to buy Limbaugh a ticket?
http://www.aticketforrush.com/ No one tell him Costa Rica has health care! |
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I don't expect it all in the next election, but the current anti-incumbent trend has been building over the last decade. It's part of what swept Obama into power (well, that and the Republicans totally bungling their nominee picks) but that is going to work the other way for a while.
And the main point is this ... there were about 33 Democrats who were given protection against voter-backlash in upcoming elections by allowing them to vote against the HCR bill. After the midterms, when the Dems lose some of that majority, they'll no longer have that luxury. And when they have fewer seats, they'll have to get more solidarity among the remaining Democratic House members. You can do that math. |
Interesting article from conservative speech writer David Frum
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Despanan, good stuff there. Thanks for the quoting it.
He's largely correct on the matter. The democrats did reject some Republican proposals too near the end as they ran with an all or nothing approach of their own on the final bill, but at that point the Republican strategies up till them left them with no choice but to do so. I'm not unhappy that a need that's been discussed by politicians for nearly 100 years (a news report I saw the other day cited President Teddy Roosevelt as having first brought up making health care available to all Americans in 1912) has finally been addressed, but the partisan politics that were in play here (correctly identified by Mr. Frum as being largely the Republicans fault for playing hardball all the way) have left us with a bill with some problems. Is it better than no bill at all? Yes in the short term. I'm worried about the long term. I'm also hoping that the uncivil discourse settles down for a bit. I'm tired of all the bad behavior on both sides of the aisle. |
Our government officials have become sore losers. First, departing Clinton workers remove the "W" keys from White House computer keyboards when Bush was elected, now the right wing calls for vandalism. I am disgusted:
http://www.kansascity.com/2010/03/22...andalized.html Democratic offices vandalized across the country By JUDY L. THOMAS The Kansas City Star Authorities in Wichita and some other cities across the country are investigating vandalism against Democratic offices, apparently in response to health care reform. And on Monday, a former Alabama militia leader took credit for instigating the actions. Mike Vanderboegh of Pinson, Ala., former leader of the Alabama Constitutional Militia, put out a call on Friday for modern “Sons of Liberty” to break the windows of Democratic Party offices nationwide in opposition to health care reform. Since then, vandals have struck several offices, including the Sedgwick County Democratic Party headquarters in Wichita. “There’s glass everywhere,” said Lyndsay Stauble, executive director of the Sedgwick County Democratic Party. “A brick took out the whole floor-to-ceiling window and put a gouge in my desk.” Stauble said the brick, hurled through the window between Friday night and Saturday morning, had “some anti-Obama rhetoric” written on it. Vandals also smashed the front door and a window at Rep. Gabrielle Giffords’ office in Tucson early Monday, hours after the Arizona Democrat voted for the health care reform package. Over the weekend, a brick shattered glass doors at the Monroe County Democratic Committee headquarters in Rochester, N.Y. Attached to the brick was a note that said, “Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice” — a quote from Barry Goldwater’s 1964 acceptance speech as the Republican presidential candidate. And on Friday, a brick broke a window at Rep. Louise Slaughter’s district office in Niagara Falls, N.Y. Slaughter, a Democrat, was a vocal supporter of the health care reform bill passed by the House on Sunday. Tyler Longpine, spokesman for the Kansas Democratic Party, called the incidents troubling. “It’s kind of an alarming context,” he said. “We haven’t had any trouble here, but we’re fortunate enough to be on the seventh floor of an office building in Topeka.” However, he added, “Most of our county offices are storefronts, which are a little bit more vulnerable to that kind of intimidation.” Vanderboegh posted the call for action Friday on his blog, “Sipsey Street Irregulars.” Referring to the health care reform bill as “Nancy Pelosi’s Intolerable Act,” he told followers to send a message to Democrats. “We can break their windows,” he said. “Break them NOW. And if we do a proper job, if we break the windows of hundreds, thousands, of Democrat party headquarters across this country, we might just wake up enough of them to make defending ourselves at the muzzle of a rifle unnecessary.” Vanderboegh told The Kansas City Star that the action was meant to “get everyone’s attention.” “What I was trying to get across was that people do not understand how on the edge of civil conflict this country is,” he said. Those who monitor right-wing extremist groups said they weren’t surprised to hear of the vandalism. “Passage of health care reform will elicit a variety of responses from its opponents,” said Leonard Zeskind, author of the 2009 book “Blood and Politics.” “We can expect militia types like Vanderboegh to become even more far-fetched and violent.” To reach Judy L. Thomas, call 816-234-4334 or send e-mail to jthomas@kcstar.com. Posted on Mon, Mar. 22, 2010 10:45 PM Read more: http://www.kansascity.com/2010/03/22...#ixzz0j7i5vXB5 |
Jesus. Hope those crazy fucks are arrested quickly before they start killing people.
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Contrary to Deadman's (reposted from infowars) claims, it looks to me like Democrats that voted for this bill are the ones who should be on the lookout for armed thugs.
This really disgusts me. |
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