The Latin Language-it's not dead, it's undead!
 

I don't see why people say that Latin is boring and a dead language. Seeing as most of the English language evolved from Latin it can help also with understanding the English language. Also, on beautiful old monuments and chapels, especially in Italy, there are almost always Latin inscriptions, there's always a warm and fuzzy feeling when you are able to translate them. Even some metal bands use some Latin in a few songs.
So, does anyone else here have the pleasure of learning the delightifully undead language known as Latin?

If you want to learn Latin, I recommend the Cambridge Latin Course books first. There's mostly made up of humorous stories that you translate with grammar pages scattered throughout and in the back. There's even a Latin-English dictionary with the words used in the book.
I'm using them for school, we're now up to the 4th one. Sadly, I'm not doing as well this year but I'm working on regarding former glory :)

Sorry about the typing error. Instead of 'regarding' I meant 'regaining'
Ah well, everyone makes mistakes.

Who doesn't love Latin? It can make anything sound grand and important. I learned a lot of it when I used to read Asterix books as a kid :) and some from my father, who studied it since it was a compulsory subject in schools here until the 50s.

Some of my favourite phrases are "Lux Aeternum", "Alae Jacta Est", and
and "Diabolus fecit, ut id facerem!"

I speak Japanese, German, Irish...I'd like to know more Latin, but I am going to focus on modern "romance" languages for now.

well, in holland it is compulsory to take English (till your finals), german and french. even if you want to take the sience road through school.

personaly I was fluid in german speaking, still am in reading. I dropped french after three years, but I will survive in france with a basic understanding of the language, though I'm not comfortable speaking it.

latin and greek is only compulsory in the highest education level, starting in the first grade of high school, till the 3rd, then it becomes optional. Most people don't take it.

I would like to learn some latin, and if I find the time I might read some textbooks.

Whatever connotations Latin has for people, it's called a 'dead' language for specific reasons, namely the fact that no living culture uses it anymore. Language is constantly evolving, new words and new meanings for old words and slang and all that going on... the fact that Latin isn't being truly spoken anymore is the reason it has that label.

I had Latin in school for 8 years...started when I was ten.....old greek for 4 years....

Learning Latin DOES make sense, and I'm not saying that, because I still need it for my archaeology studies, it also helps when learning new languages...I think that's because I've never had to study grammar that hard and consequently as I had to for my Latin exams ;-)

Besides that, our Latin teacher gave us a good general overview about the ancient world. We studied Latin law, which is still a basic of which many systems of law developed.
Both in old Greek and Latin we translated philosphical, historical, and other literal sources, which is something, I don't want to miss. I think I have learned a lot in my Latin and Greek classes, and I think it is sad that the old languages, and humanities in general, are more and more vanishing from the scholar system.

I have a latin class at school and I agree with you 100%. Not only can latin help us understand english and other languages but it may also help us understand what a demonically possesed person in a horror movie like the Exorcism of Emily Rose is saying. So yes. It is undead.

I also love how in the future, everyone seems to know Latin. One example which jumps out at me is in the movie Event Horizon, where in the course of trying to salvage a space ship that's going to get sucked into the gravitational pull of Uranus the crew discover a recording where some guy is yelling in Latin, and of course one of the salvage crew just happens to know a little Latin himself... what the hell?

Latin is a powerful langauge, rooted in the timelessness of history. In my view, that is rather cool. I would like to learn it and I am not so certain that studying Latin is as ominous as everyone I've met seems to contend.

I find the phrase 'the timelessness of history' to be something of a kung-an just now, so thanks for that!

I'd rather buck the trends and learn something like Sanskrit or Greek. Frankly, I don't see anything the Romans produced that the Indians or Greeks didn't have better ideas about, except maybe warfare.

Well by combining classiac languages and cultural values of the people who spoke the language, like modern English, french and german teachers try, one creates an understanding about the roots of our modern society. Having sead that, history proves not all their ideas where right. Studying history and understanding these factors is just as importent.

So history and the classical languages are comlimentary to each other. Latin or greek without classes in history makes no sense. So only those who seek explanations in the past might need latin and greek.

darkmartin I need an avatar. Where did you get that?

thanks, here is the link to the thread (although I used the old one). All will be explained

https://www.gothic.net/boards/showth...ight=southpark

I absolutely love Latin. It is such an elegant and decadent language from which an enormous part of modern English is composed. One of my favorite quotes is "Tu Fui, Ego Eris", or "What you are, I was. What I am, you will become".

Reminds me of a story. On another message board, a guy mistakenly thought I knew Latin, simply because I knew a few phrases. He said he wanted to write something funny but all he knew was e pluribus unim, and it was latin, but it wasn't funny.

I said, so is coitus interruptus, and that wasn't funny either.

He put me on his ignore list.

Here's a dumb thought......

If Latin is a dead language because no living culture uses it, and the Vatican (Roman Catholic Church) uses Latin for all its' stuff, does that mean Vatican priests are the "undead"?

No offense intended to any Catholics, devout or otherwise...... but wouldn't that make a great 'B' horror movie?

The Sounds of Klingon
The sounds of Klingon individually occur in existing Terran languages, but no single language uses the entire collection. Paramount wanted the language to be gutteral and harsh, and Okrand wanted it to be unusual, so he selected sounds that combined in ways not typically found in other languages (e.g. a retroflex D and a dental t, but no retroflex T or dental d). Here's a description of the sounds of Klingon, and the way they're written in the standard Okrand writing-system (see another page for a discussion of another writing system). You can also find out about some everyday phrases in Klingon.

Note that some of the sounds of Klingon are represented by more than one letter of English. You should think of these combinations as single letters, since they represent single, simple sounds in Klingon. So a Klingon ng is not an n followed by g (Klingon has no g anyway!); it's a simple sound on its own.

You'll also find that the orthography of Klingon uses capital and lowercase letters a little differently from the way you're used to. Mostly, capital letters are used to help remind you that a letter sounds different in Klingon than it does in English. Be careful when writing Klingon to use the correct capitalization (i.e., the capitalization appropriate for the sound; do not capitalize the first letter of your sentences in Klingon), since otherwise it's hard for people used to the language to read it. Be especially careful with q and Q, since these represent different sounds in Klingon (confusing them would be like confusing "f" and "g" and English). Also be careful with the letter ', the apostrophe. It may not look like much to English-accustomed eyes, but in Klingon it's a full-fledged letter. Omitting it would be like deciding it's not important to type "t"'s in English anymore.

When speaking Klingon, be sure to speak forcefully. Some of the sounds may make the person you're talking to a little wet. This is correct and to be expected.

If your machine can produce sounds, select the letters showing how the sound is written to hear a sample pronunciation (by Mark Shoulson). Vowels are demonstrated with the consonant "b" on either side of them, so the example for the Klingon a will sound like someone saying bab. Consonants are demonstrated at the beginning of a syllable, between syllables, and at the end of a syllable, using the vowel a. So the example for the Klingon ch will sound like someone saying chachach (see? The sound ch at the beginning, between two vowels, and at the end).



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

a
[a] Like the "a" sound in English "father." Never like in "acid" (American pronunciation).
b
[b] Like in English "bob" or "playbill."
ch
[ʧ] Like in English "chew" or "chocolate."
D
[ɖ] Not quite like the English "d" sound. Touch the tip of your tongue to the very top of your mouth, the highest point on your palate, instead of near the teeth like for an English "d." Then do the same thing you'd do to make a "d."
e
[ɛ] Like the "e" in English "bed."
gh
[ɣ] A gargled sound, at the back of the throat. Like the Klingon H, only voiced. It's very much like the French gargled "r."
H
[x] A harsh sound in the throat, found in German (as in "Bach") or the Hebrew toast "l'chayim." Make sure you pronounce this harshly and unvoiced.
I
[ɪ] Like the "i" sound in English "bit."
j
[ʤ] Like the "j" in English "junk." Never like in French "jour."
l
[l] Like in English "lunch."
m
[m] Like in English "mother."
n
[n] Like in English "nose" or "any."
ng
[ŋ] The same sound as occurs at the end of English "thing," only in Klingon it can also come at the beginnings of words. Be careful when starting a word or syllable with this sound. It's against the rules of English, and it may take some practice.
o
[o] Like in English "note" or "mosaic." As with other letters, don't get distracted by English words spelled with the same letters. The Klingon word not sounds like English "note," not like "not" (which in Klingon lettering would be spelled nat).
p
[pʰ] Like in English "pipe" or "pop." Pronounce it with a puff of air.
q
[q] A little like English "k," but not really. This sound is to be made as far back in your mouth as possible, with the back of your tongue actually touching your uvula (the fleshy blob that hangs down over your throat). It sounds a little like you're choking.
Q
[qχ] A little like a Klingon q immediately followed by a Klingon H. Close off your mouth as far back as you can, like with q, and force air up, like you're trying to dislodge food stuck in your throat. It sounds a lot like you're choking.
r
[r] A lightly trilled or rolled "r." If you can't trill with the tip of your tongue, just do a flap (or even a regular English r will be understood), but don't gargle the "r," or it'll sound like a gh. Note that your friendly sound-pronouncer for these pages does a rotten job of rolling r's. Don't let that stop you from doing it right, nor should you worry about not doing it perfectly. Notably, Marc Okrand, the creator of the language, doesn't roll his r's consistently on the audio tapes he made. Also, be careful not to let the r "overshadow" nearby vowels. Klingon syllables mIr, mer, mur sound approximately like English "mere, mare, moor"; none of them rhyme with English "fur".
S
[ʂ] A sound somewhat like an English "sh," but made farther back. Put your tongue where you did for the Klingon D, but don't quite touch the roof of your mouth. Make an "s" sound with your tongue up there.
t
[tʰ] Like English "t" in "tip." Pronounce it powerfully, with a puff of air.
tlh
[tˡɬ] This is a tough one to describe. Put your tongue in position to say a "t," but instead of pulling the tip of your tongue away from your palate, drop the sides, sort of like what happens near the end of the word "waddle" in English. This should leave you in position to say an "l," but make sure you don't use your voice: whisper the "l"; hiss it out between your teeth. The dropping of the sides of your tongue should be done forcefully; this is another spitter.
u
[u] Like in English "prune" or "fool."
v
[v] Like in English "vicious."
w
[w] Like in English "wisdom." Sometimes this sound will follow an a, an e, or an I, yielding:
aw, rhyming with English "cow."
ew, not like anything in English. Basically the "e" in "bed" run into a "w." A good way to get to this is to think of Elmer Fudd saying "tewwible."
Iw, also unlike anything in English. Again, it's like the "i" in "bit" run into a "w." It's close to "Eww!" the expression of disgust.
y
[j] Like in English "yet." This sound, like w, forms diphthongs:
ay, rhyming with English "why."
ey, rhyming with English "may" (Note: The Klingon word may, of course, sounds like English "my." See above).
Iy, rhyming with English "key."
oy, rhyming with English "boy."
uy, sort of like English "gooey," but not quite. It's one syllable, while "gooey" is two. Think of English "Do you" and drop off the last vowel sound.
'
[ʔ] A sound we use in English, but don't consider a sound. It's the catch in the throat we put in the beginnings of words that start with vowels, or in phrases like "uh-oh." In Klingon, it can also come at the ends of syllables, where it has to be pronounced carefully (e.g. the words tI and tI' have very different meanings). This one takes practice to get right in all positions.

Where did you find this, and exactly what does it have to do with Latin?

Should I be a little scared that anyone put this much thought into Klingon speak?

Sobeh, I'm giving you 5 brownie points for that post.

I was just about to say that, then read your post.

It's true, you cannot speak Latin fluently. There are far, far too many conjugations for the average human to be able to think and speak at a normal pace.

It's more likely that even the Romans themselves wrote it correctly, but spoke it in such a way that it's more like slang than anything.

That's true. The latin we see on tombs and such is Classical latin and differed totally from the spoken language of the Romans.
The diglossia of latin consisited of Vulgar Latin, which was the spoken version, and deviated from Classical Latin in terms of grammar and vocalization. Classical Latin remained in the domain of literature as a ritualistic and turgid language.

Because no slang or spoken or evolving latin is involved the language as a living breathing changing thing, is dead.

What the hell was with the Klingon post? Someone actually admits to and is proud enough to post they've spent countless worthless hours studying the language of a fabricated culture?

Yeah.. that's great.