Subversive Kawaii
 

I have to admit, I'm usually skeptical when my peers talk about being subversive and fitting patriarchal norms about femininity at the same time. I felt that its a fine line to walk and hard to tell what's conditioning and what is authentic.

Never again will I doubt.

http://fuckyeahsubversivekawaii.tumblr.com/

http://25.media.tumblr.com/96a148d97...pe4qo1_400.jpg

http://25.media.tumblr.com/7ccd63178...s8rgo1_400.jpg

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http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4...3soro1_400.jpg

The tea one cracked me up, it might have been a bit of a revenge fantasy for street harassment.

The catcall one made me cackle.

This one's my favorite

http://24.media.tumblr.com/5e61448dc...s8rgo1_400.gif

I don't know how I feel about this stuff. Talking about maiming people isn't progressive.
Also, I would never say that a woman who acted "feminine" was anti-feminist, I'd wait to hear her politics. This seems to be a reaction to the idea that feminists are demanding that women be "hairy unwashed dykes". I don't even understand where the fuck people got the idea that the movement saying "stop telling women what to do" is saying "don't act feminine, women!"
These woman can be as kawaii as they want but it might be more productive to focus on rebelling against their oppressors, not other battlers.

You may never say that a woman is anti-feminist for acting feminine but it is certainly something that I have heard quite a bit, I've gone to rallies and been told to either change or leave, so I appreciate seeing something that is both feminine and feminist. There are definitely things posted there that I would never post and that I don't 100% agree with but this isn't a professional blog, it's someone's personal tumblr and they are just posting what they feel.

Saying that what she is doing isn't productive is saying that her perspective isn't important just because it is different from yours and I'm sorry but that's fucks up. We need to accept that there will be a lot of different perspectives within the feminist movement and that they are all important. We need to acknowledge that some people are coming from a place of hurt and anger and in turn their words will be less politically correct and they will say things that may offend people but they have every right to express how they feel.

The ratio of people telling women to be girly versus the people telling women they don't have to be weighs heavily on the former. What I'm saying here is that "fighting to be feminine" because feminists won't let you be is diverting attention from issues like dismantling the patriarchy. Who the fuck told you to change or leave? Unless you were dressed as a womankilling businessman dudebro I can't imagine getting any animosity from women who believe in the rights of women.

I didn't say her perspective isn't important because it's different than mine. Really? That's what came across? I'm not writing off this group's idea at all, I wouldn't waste time criticising it if it was complete bullshit. I think you're trying to paint me as some ogre who doesn't want people to express themselves and that makes me frown.

Do you think that encouraging violence is a good direction for any movement to go in?

Yes but both are highly problematic because they are telling someone what to be and not allowing them to be themself.

I think you're kind of missing the point. It isn't about fighting against other feminists in order to be girly, it is just about being girly while fighting the patriarchy.
To date I have left three different feminist groups because they took issue with my style of dress and have had multiple conflicts with individuals. I have been screamed at for being a "shame to the movement" and told that I don't understand their struggle because the patriarchy loves women like me (whatever the hell that even means). Obviously not all feminists think that it is wrong for a woman to embrace her feminine side but sadly quite a few do and they tend to be quite vocal about it.

Everything you said came off as dismissing the blog for not being progressive or productive. That may not have been your intention but that is certainly how it read to me.

Why would I do something like that? Don't get me wrong it's a refreshing change from people thinking I'm too nice but it was not my intention. I was simply reacting to a rather common problem that you honestly seemed to be a part of.

It kind of depends on the situation, sometimes violence is necessary, even my flower-child, "lets solve our problems with a hug" mother understood that. Of course I don't think that beating random guys with a baseball bat is a great way to advance feminist ideals but I do think that the movement as a whole is much less radical and assertive than it needs to be. There really and truly is great harm being done to women in this country and the victories of past feminists are being undone. Voicing anger on a blog (which is all that is happening there, there really is no advocacy for violence) is quite honestly a rather tame reaction to the current state of things.

Hmm. Telling women they don't have to do something is not the same as telling them they are forbidden to do so.

If some people have told you that you can not dress a certain way then that was a really shitty thing to do. It sounds like they were doing a lot more harm to the movement than you were just by wearing what you want! I'm genuinely sorry you were treated so poorly.

You gathered from what I said that I don't want people to express themselves? I'm part of that problem? You're mistaking my criticisms for censorship.
I said "I don't know how I feel about this stuff" because that's what I meant. I was making some observations and criticising some elements of the idea raised. I was not saying "tear the blog down!"

I will never support physical violence as a tactic used in revolution. Physical violence has oppressed women for ever and ever and it is ineffective and damning when used by underclasses. I know that the i'll scratch yer eyes out stuff is being assertive and non-apologetic but it infanticises the movement because it's not serious.

To clarify: I don't want these people to stop sharing their idea or expressing themselves on the internet. It's always good when people get together to think about what a movement stands for and what they can say within and for the movement. I'm not dismissing this blog for being unproductive or retrogressive I was questioning the productivity and progressiveness of a group of people expressing themselves because I would like them to be productive and progressive because feminism is great.

Firstly, yes, it is a common trope that either you can't be feminine, or you can't be butch and be feminist. Butch feminists degrade what is feminine (and it isn't necessarily clothes, but even tasks like knitting and cooking are too feminine and degrading) and feminine feminists may be all to quick to say "no, feminists aren't hairy dykes! Look at how conventional I am!", and you'e a traitor and "feeding into the stereotype" if you are a hairy dyke, its a duality that isn't getting anyone anywhere.

The focus should be to how can one be feminine or butch or neither in revolutionary ways. How can we avoid being so in patriarchal ways? I appreciate the cat calling picture, because its on a feminine feminist site and oh look, she has body hair! I like it because it it reframes what is feminine and what is empowering.

Secondly, its a little privileged to tell women being harassed or violated never to respond in a violent way. Hell, I doubt any of the contributors have, but again I've definitely have had violent revenge fantasies, and I know its common for survivors of sexual assault. Its not the violence that is being validated, its the anger. Its okay to be angry.

Too often women are told if they don't want to be violated, they shouldn't wear this or do this or do that. The onus is never on the assaulter or harasser. And let's face it, few women when being catcalled feel empowered enough to violently threaten the man doing it. I never feel safe enough to even flip them off, they tend to travel in packs. So what's wrong with wishing that we could take them on, that maybe they can't get away with it? What's wrong with having a few come back lines you'll never say out loud?

"The focus should be to how can one be feminine or butch or neither in revolutionary ways. How can we avoid being so in patriarchal ways?"

I'm sorry, Saya, I don't agree at all. I don't think the focus of feminism should be to act out gender tropes in revolutionary ways. I think that it's an important aspect of many feminists identification with the movement and it is in no way irrelevant though.

It might be something that a privileged person might say to tell women being harassed or violated never to respond in a violent way but I did not say that. I said I don't support it as a tactic used by feminism because it was "ineffective". Not because I didn't approve but because we will lose because the patriarchy is founded on violence and they've had a fuck load of practice.

I really hope you don't think I'm saying women aren't allowed to be fucking furious after what's been done to them for the entire history of time. I'm discussing what this blog is doing, what might work for them and what might hinder them. Not whether or not anyone should be allowed to do anything.

You're right, I'm sorry, the issue isn't being told that I don't have to be girly. The issue is being told that it is wrong to be girly but it is usually worded as "you don't have to look like that" and when I say that I know, I just like it, I get a long rant about how I'm just supporting the patriarchy and all that shit. Whats even worse is that frequently I get told that I don't have to be girly when the only thing feminine about my look is that I'm not actively masking my figure and facial structure, it is a form of body shaming that is somewhat unique to the feminist movement.

Fun fact: there are a lot of really shitty people within the feminist movement, the people who gave me trouble are far from the worst.

I'm not trying to be mean but look at your word choice here. "They were doing a lot more harm" still implies that I was doing harm. I'm guessing that isn't what you were trying to say but I still feel compelled to point out problematic language.

Criticizing something, specifically something small but passionate, as not being productive is a pretty common way for those more central to a movement to silence other perspectives. Again it may not have been your intent but within the context of the feminist movement it is somewhat common.

I completely disagree. Sometimes you have no choice but to be violent and just because something has been used to oppress you in the past does not mean that you cannot effectively use it against your oppressors. I also completely disagree that it "infanticises the movement", it's a way of expressing anger in a creative and evocative way. Feminism is a daily fight and we need stuff that keeps us fired up and passionate. This may not be your cup of tea but I do see a real need for things like this within the movement.

What do you think is productive and progressive? I have a feeling that we have two very different answers to that question.

She isn't saying that should be the focus of feminism but the focus of this dialogue within the movement.

You did actually imply it, whether intentional or not. Either you need to really spend some time analyzing your views of violence or you need to work a lot on your word choice.

Yes they have had practice, but they have had practice fighting against people with no power, we have come far enough that we can fight back. No, we are not on equal terms but oppressed groups have overcome a hell of a lot more.

Out of curiosity how do you think we can overthrow the patriarchy? What tactics do you think are most productive?

If the whole point of the blog is to vent their anger then why would you even question how fucking productive it is if you have no problem with anger and frustration being expressed?

When I said you were doing "a lot more harm" it was an expression. I was empathising with you because you were treated horribly and I was mocking your attackers for viewing your actions as harmful. You know that though so I'm not going further into that.

If criticism silenced movements then many great people would have never become infamous/notorious. I am not saying "no one look, this shit's trash". As I've already said here, if I didn't think it was worth a damn I wouldn't waste my time. Every movement is subject to criticism and just as you have criticised the aspects of feminism that demand unfair things of you, I criticise things within this blog that I think are problematic/contradictory or may hinder their own progress towards what I think might be their goals. I don't care how small this is. My criticisms will never be the thing to silence this blog.

"You did actually imply it, whether intentional or not. Either you need to really spend some time analyzing about your views of violence or you need to work a lot on your word choice."

I need to spend time analysing my views on violence or I am telling "women being harassed or violated never to respond in a violent way"?
Argh! Please listen to me. I do not blame women for acting angrily or violently in response to violence. I also believe that violence doesn't work well in revolutions because underclasses are very disadvantaged. I'm talking about people literally torturing or fighting people. I can't see a good result from a group of feminists entering a pub and slicing throats. I can't see that working well. That's not a criticism of anything, that is probably my strong dislike of killing or physical abuse.

"If the whole point of the blog is to vent their anger then why would you even question how fucking productive it is if you have no problem with anger and frustration being expressed? "

I don't think the whole point of this blog is to vent anger. I give it more credit than that.
I thought they were making a point. I thought they were spreading a message. I thought they were trying to educate other women. I thought they were trying to promote the idea that 'feminists can be feminine too".

I do see what you mean when you say the violent posts are venting and I suppose that means that they aren't exactly serious but just as you have literally interpreted some of my expressions, I interpreted some of those as literal too.

I am not saying that the blog isn't relevant or interesting. Thanks for linking to it! It's rolled across my tumblr dashboard a few times. I've seen the posts being reblogged by some of my teenage friends who think that they are worthless for being girls and I thought it was great that they were breaking into feminist ideas. I've been thinking about it for a while and I presented some questions about its motives and how it was going about things.

Did I say it should be the sole focus? No, I said when it comes to ways in which we act out gender, the focus shouldn't be on which way is bad, but how to be subversive in whatever we do.

The point of the blog, if you would read what they have written, is that its a place where people can vent. Its not for sexists, its for feminists. Like a Stitch N Bitch if you will.

And if you're afraid sexists are going to read it and be offended, well, I'm never really okay with so called revolutionary action that oppressors are comfortable and fine with.

I'm not afraid sexists are going to be offended. I am not an apologist. When bigots get offended they think more and that is great.

I don't dislike the blog. I don't dislike their posts or what they're saying. I feel like you guys are saying "if you can't say something nice then don't say anything at all" and honestly that's closer to censorship than trying to bring up with you guys something I thought you'd be interested to talk about.

Seriously, I might have sounded aggressive in my first post but the aggression was not towards you guys or this blog. Some women tell women not to be feminine because feminine is not feminist but that is an anti-feminist action. Women being able to make entirely their own choices about their actions and appearance is feminist. I know that you're saying that this blog is fighting the people who downtalk femininity and not saying that all feminists are anti-feminity but I think that it can be interpreted that way. After all, the reason this blog rattled me bones so much was that I hear so often from anti-feminism experts that "all feminists hate feminine women" and it is not true and it contradicts the movement itself. I can see how a woman who has had femininity imposed on her might be as angry as the women on this blog about their treatment and they might also be defensive.

Anyway. I've made a pretty clumsy tumble into talking about things on this site. I hope I haven't come off as too much of an oppressive, woman-hating monster because I am starved of feminist discussion and you guys are really on the ball.

I didn't know this was a thing. I guess it went over my head when Saya brought it up in conversation.

Hey Languor, welcome to the site - we disagree on a lot of points, but that said, it's always good to have another feminist on board. Discussions on this site have a tendency to get interesting. (That sounds super-patronising, sorry - it's genuinely meant!) :D

I've been struggling recently too with "I act/look girly because I like it". I have to admit, part of me wants to start bawling "IDEOLOGICAL STATE APPARATUS SOCIAL CONDITIONING YOU DID NOT COME OUT OF THE WOMB WANTING MASCARA OMG BRAAGGGGHHHH". Yet, how to reconcile that with the fact that the alternative is, once more, effectively telling women what to do, that there's a particular way they 'should' be looking/acting, and that they're failing in their womanly duty by not doing so? 'Cause... that shit sounds kind of familiar.

I read this just yesterday, and it actually helped to take care of a lot of the stuff I've been thinking about. Maybe you guys will find it interesting, too: http://bitchmagazine.org/post/ms-opi...me-you-didnt-9

Heh, from what you've said so far we don't disagree at all. We both think that gender roles are not innate and yet we both believe that women should be allowed to enact them in any way they'd like to and still be a feminist.
Haha you don't sound patronising, thanks for the welcome. : )

Nice article. I've just been talking with my partner about how no one can do everything right. We've grown up not only being totally crushed by sexist expectations but also being taught to bring other women down and keep them in line for the patriarchy. That's why it's so hard to fight this fight. Sometimes it feels like there are tick boxes to fill. Do I shave my body? Do I educate other women about their rights? Do I criticise other women? Do I bodyshame? Do I buy fairtrade? Can all of those be done/not done always? I can think of hardly any other political alignments that require so much thought going into the way one lives their life.

Personally, I see the violence in some of the artwork, not so much as encouragement to violence, but to vent the anger that we are, for the most part, not allowed to express as women.

Hell, the whole schtick about the "angry" feminist, is a stereotype that tries to poison our feelings about our most useful tool for change, the unrelenting, hot, burning anger at the way we as women are often treated in society.

I think the dismissal of girly/femme people within the feminist movement comes from people who haven't really examined their own internalized misogyny. Being told that your own personal style (clothing, hair removal, makeup, grooming habits) is inappropriate for smashing patriarchy is not cool.

No, we're responding to your criticisms. You can have them, and we can respond to them. Its kinda what we do on this site.

In theory, yes, however, choices are not made in a vacuum. No matter how feminist you are, you probably realize sometimes that you do something because of patriarchal values instilled in you. I don't think anything is above critique, like traditionally feminine roles. How do we know we really are choosing it because we enjoy it and not because we're trying to conform? And I think a lot of things aren't feminist. Feeling like I need makeup is one of them, because I'm a feminist and I wear make up doesn't make my make up feminist and empowering, and I'm only human. And its funny because until recently I rarely would wear make up, and just started for fun, and so quickly I get the idea that I need it!

So I think the intent in critiquing femininity isn't bad in itself, its when it gets to the point where people think its inherently bad or aren't thinking about what femininity even is that the point gets lost.

Like I said, I think the blog also does a great job in redefining femininity. Its not weak, its not demure, its not submissive. That's the very traits anti-feminists hold up as the best thing about femininity, so of course feminists hate it. Its not even what we would normally call "femme", its whatever the person wants it to be. Its gender trouble! Which sexists would really hate to have happen.

Oh by no means, I just think meaning is getting lost somewhere along the way.

Yeah, I do know what you mean about the venting I agree I agree I agree it is venting. When I said the cutesy characters promising violence infanticises their idea, I meant it in the way that they're just kidding really when there are violent things to say that you can say even without exaggerating at all. I have nothing against the exaggerations anyway I was really just saying it was a little impractical. Aughh I can't believe how tongue-tied I feel. At the risk of being assuming you all know what I mean. One more time, I don't think the blog should change. I guess I was just venting my immediate reaction to seeing what started to look like a feministbashing girlpower site when it's been done done done and so often ends up demeaning all kinds of women by accident.

That reply was to ape descendant, by the way. Saya, you are a fast typer!

They're not kidding, really. While it may not be literally calling for women to scratch the eyes out of people who sexually harass women on the street (might actually not be a bad idea, really), being angry and wanting to hurt the people who hurt and humiliated you are pretty natural emotional responses.

Plenty of us are somewhat femmy, and that's ok. Being able to couple it with strength and anger is a way to reclaim femininity for our own purposes wresting it from the claws of those who would use that side of us for our own oppression.

I think I missed the part where the posts were in response to people who sexually harass women on the street. I thought they were rallying responses to women's oppression generally.

I get the reclaiming femininity bit. I always got it. I've seen it many, many times before.

When I made the mistake of criticising the productiveness of a blog that's completely only for shits and giggles times infinity I was tiredly expressing my pain that gender tropes are so massively beloved all the time. I know that a lot of people care about them and I'm not attacking anyone who does. I don't attack flat out misogynist women for the way they act or dress, I'm certainly not complaining that any feminists express themselves in what they perceive to be a feminine way.

I'm curious, what gender tropes did you see played out on the site? What's bugging you?