[Saya]

Originally Posted by Delkaetre

Questions. And please, please, do not snap or snarl as some vegans have done, I genuinely do not know what people want to do in these cases.

I'll try answering some, but please keep in mind not every vegan/animal rights advocate agrees about everything, I'm sure there are really nutcases out there who want to kill all domesticated animals and I'm sure there's vegans who really like zoos and spent thousands of dollars to get a pure-bred dog, its not a completely united movement and debates within it exists.

What do we do about pets? If we are not to keep them in a form of slavery, does that mean we are not to keep pets? Not to train them to respond to our commands? I know you 'train' children to use the bathroom and not smash the furniture, but a dog would be trained and kept in that state all of its life. No more pets? No more domesticated animals? What do you do with the existing ones?

I don't have a problem with people keeping pets, I have a cat and a mouse and I'm thinking about adopting a rabbit from a shelter in the near future. The problem however is with breeding (and I don't think I really need to mention things like puppy mills, do I?), there are millions of homeless animals and yet people will dish out a lot of money just to get a pure-bred dog or cat, I have a friend who wants to pay a thousand dollars to get a chihuahua, for example. I know she'll be good to it but its sad how many animals have no homes and yet we still continue to breed more of them just because we want one that pleases our aesthetic tastes. Another example would be rabbits, I read once that 80% of rabbits are homeless at least once in their lives, and I believe that, I know so many people who get rabbits because they think they'll be cute and then give them away a month later because they smell and get aggressive, and they don't wanna fork out the money to get them neutered/spayed.

Now if we end breeding, I doubt that will be the end of companion animals. Unless there is a law that every single dog and cat and rabbit has to get fixed, we're always going to have them, as animals tend to fuck on their own time without our help. What we should do however is stop breeding them ourselves, and give the millions of homeless animals a chance to have a loving home. So no, I do not want to put down all animals and I love having a cat around, but I don't want to pay someone to knock up their Persian just so I can get a fluffy cat, I won't buy from a breeder or a pet store, I'll always get my animals from shelters from now on.

And with training, I can't see a problem with it as it is something similar you do with a child, right? Its when it stops being training and becomes abuse is where we must draw the line.

What do we do about, say, cats? They've been positively deadly everywhere they've been introduced. How can you limit their numbers without culling them? What about spaying them, is that regarded as unethical?

I haven't heard anyone advocate sending cats out into the wild, and you're right they can cause devastation to wildlife when they do go feral. Spaying and neutering is ethical, they live longer lives and it protects them from deadly STIs that are common amongst cats.

If an animal is injured, do you take it in and give it medical care? People don't do that for a lot of humans, particularly those lacking in insurance, so what of animals in such cases?

You mean like if my cat gets sick? Of course I'll take it to the vet, we knew about associated costs before we got the cat. If I just found the cat at the side of the road? I'd take her to the SPCA, if the cat is able to make it they do foot the bills (honestly I'd help out with it myself if I can), if not they do hire local vets to euthanize animals that would otherwise have a painful death. If its a deer, lets say? We actually have a nature park here that takes in injured wildlife. Last time I was there amongst their animals there was an orphan moose calf and a one-winged snowy owl.

How do you keep rats and mice out of houses? Traps? Poison? Humane traps are not very effective, as a pest can usually get back in very easily. All it takes is leaving your door open for five minutes.

How do you deal with pest animals eating the crops you're trying to grow to feed yourselves? What do you do if the crops are damaged by deer or rodents? When it's down to your food or theirs?

My mom had a problem with mice and squirrels, poison wasn't working at all, so what she did was she got this sonar thingy (I can't remember the name of it), it sends out a frequency that only rodents can hear and they can't stand it, so they stay out of the house. You can get ones also so you can occasionally adjust the frequency, as eventually they may get used to the sound and come back.

As for crops I'm not sure how to answer you to be honest, I have heard of repellents working very well but I would imagine it would differ from species to species. Always I would advocate taking every other measure before resorting to killing, but if it comes down to you starving to death or killing some field mice, well, sadly, the mice must go.

What of zoos? In many cases, they're all that stand between rare animals and extinction. Under what circumstances can you keep animals in captivity? What can you do about the ones unable to fend for themselves in the wild? How do you rescue falling populations of indigenous species when an imported species is becoming dominant (see the Red/Grey/Black squirrel problem, or, again, cats)?

I get what you're saying and I used to think about zoos that way too, here we don't have a zoo but we have a nature park that basically takes in injured wild life, and its actually set in the woods in their natural habitat, a lot of the animals don't even have cages. That sort of thing I really respect. Commercial zoos however usually don't have that kind of space or realism for the animal, and in some cases captivity is detrimental to the animal's health and well being. Its actually a big and hotly debated topic amongst those for animal rights, yes we would like to see animals protected and have conservation efforts but a lot of zoos aren't up to standard, so to speak, a lot of animals have difficulty breeding in captivity, and animals shouldn't be taken from the wild just to be put on display for some snotty kids. Here's a critique of zoos just for your curiosity:
http://www.wildlife.org.nz/zoocheck/myths.htm, I'll also have a look for an article I read a while ago that said the life expectancy for captive elephants is significantly less than that of wild elephants.

Like you may tell I'm a fan of our nature park, and if conservation is deemed necessary thats how it should be done, in a park or sanctuary in an animal's natural habitat, not in a cage.

As for the imported species, well, prevention is key. like with crop pests I do believe that killing should be the last resort, and its hard to feel bad for potential animals not being born (lets say the species dwindles/dies out) and give them more right over animals that are alive right now (the introduced species). Its actually another heated topic, by no means is everyone united on that sort of thing, I'm just giving my own two cents.