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Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus
Explain why belief in your god is more legitimate than belief in my unicorn bigfoot.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus
You must acknowledge, then, that your faith is wholly independent of logic, and based entirely on 'feelings' that cannot be defended on rational terms.
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I'm not sure if "faith" can be defined in rational terms ~ probably not ~ but faith is essential for salvation according to the Bible. For example:
(Ephesians 2:8-10)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
I think also that "fearing the Lord" means to have faith in Him; for example:
(Isaiah 8:12-13)
11 For the LORD spoke thus to me with a strong hand, and instructed me that I should not walk in the way of this people, saying:
12 “ Do not say, ‘A conspiracy,’
Concerning all that this people call a conspiracy,
Nor be afraid of their threats, nor be troubled.
13 The LORD of hosts, Him you shall hallow;
Let Him be your fear,
And let Him be your dread.
And one more... You guys won't like this one, but I'll post it anyway because it's directly related to my perspective:
(1 Corinthians 1:18-20)
18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written:
“ I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”[a]
20 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
From an atheistic perspective, you will almost certainly believe that such a verse is a vain "feel-good" statement for those who believe in God about how superior they are to the rest of the world, but you're incorrect. I think that the main message of this verse is to warn one who believes in God that the secular world will not understand God but that God is in control. Essentially, keep faith anyway. They will see such a person is an utter fool (am I wrong?) There you go; I probably just started a huge flame war.........
Quote:
Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus
Actually, an eminent physicist-- one of the greatest scientific minds of our time-- just said it is possible, that the scientific principles observable to all of us allow for the spontaneous generation the universe.
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That's very interesting, and I don't doubt your information here. When there is ample proof for this theory, I'm sure that such information will not be kept a secret for long. The origin of the universe is a hottly-debated topic, after all. Many people want this one settled.
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Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus
From where do you derive 'must have been'? Why is it more probable that a god exists and has always existed, independently of science, than that our provable scientific laws have always been operative? Doesn't it follow that this 'Someone' couldn't possibly have come from 'nothing' either, and that he too must have a creator, and that his creator must have a creator-- ad infinitum?
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I think that part of the question concerns time itself. Does it make sense according to the laws of science to say that something has always been? There has to be some cause for an effect, right? You can always ask, "but what came before?" Honestly, I suspect that time itself is a constraint of the physical world, and this is how God's creation of our physical word (and His being outside time's confines) makes sense to me. One verse about God's unique relationship to time is:
(2 Peter 3:8,9)
8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9
All in all, you (as well as many of the other posters present) doubtless understand science better than I do; I won't deny it. As I said before, I'm no authority on apologetics. You'll have to go elsewhere for a challenging debate concerning the feasability of Creationism. By the way, I think that many of you such as Alan suspect that I'm against science or view it in a negative way. That's not the case. I simply believe that there are things which science cannot nor will ever be able to explain. I know that you don't agree with this, but it's my position.
I've read your ideas concerning visceral empathy, and I understand you for the most part; I don't have any further questions about it.
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Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus
I think you've misunderstood what I posted. My dismissal of good and evil was not a declaration that my morality holds all actions and individuals as equal, I merely meant to say that I think actions and individuals can rarely be understood in such stark, uncomplicated terms, and that attempting to force us and the things we do into such a cosmology, into a narrative of 'good vs evil', is never a good idea.
My purpose in life is to maximize my own happiness. That said, my own happiness is linked inextricably with the welfare of my family and of my friends, as well as with the feeling that I'm contributing in a positive way to the society in which I live.
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Ok. Thank you and Ben for your direct response to my question. I understand. If I did not believe in God, I think that I would have a similar view of the world.