[Despanan]

Originally Posted by Raptor

Not quite. I got the hybrid generation information from their blog, yes. If it's wrong then sure, let me know.

The EPA guide however, I looked up. Monsanto and the article state completely different "EPA views".



Additionally, p28 identifies thiram as a dithiocarbamate. Those match what Monsanto says, not the article, so I'm not really inclined to see it as trustworthy.

You got suckered. They're playing with the language they're using to imply that this is something which is not harmful, without straight-up lying, it doesn't matter what classification it is, it was "reclassified" as a dithiocarbamate (possibly due to pressure from companies like Monsanto). It's actually considered a class 3 poison. It's Very toxic to aquatic organisms - may cause long-term environmental damage. Safety glasses, gloves, adequate ventilation/face mask.

* Teratogenic effects: Cleft palate, wavy ribs, and curved long leg bones were observed in the offspring of mice that ingested very high thiram doses of 1200 mg/kg/day on days 6 to 17 of pregnancy. Maternal doses of 125 mg/kg/day thiram were teratogenic in hamsters, causing incomplete formation of the skull and spine, fused ribs, abnormalities of the legs, heart, great vessels, and kidneys. Developmental toxicity was observed in a three-generation study of rats fed 5.0 mg/kg/day. These data suggest that high doses are required to cause teratatogenic effects.

It's not exactly the worst poison in the world, but it is clearly a chemical that requires proper handling, and I don't think Haiti has the tools, nor the capital nor the basic sanitation (they're still fighting Cholera) to deal with this bullshit right now.

The real issue seems to be whether or not second generation seeds are viable, and do they make farmers reliant on Monsanto.

They are not and they do. What Monsanto is giving is not "charity" it's a "Free Sample", and one which will make the Haitians reliant on them, due to discouraging the cultivation of native seeds:

Monsanto is running a seed bank scam. They have done this before and possibly driven 4500 indian farmers to suicide

You are likely shopping for seed banks in order to bring peace of mind to your family; the only thing that can ruin that is being taken advantage of by a survival seeds scam artist. Do not purchase kits that include hybrid seeds which cannot be counted on to provide you with seeds that will keep your sustainable garden growing. Heirloom or non hybrid seeds are the ideal option when buying seeds you plan on storing or usingto sustain a garden. They are a little more expensive, but are well worth it as they can keep your garden self sustaining for years to come.

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

Some struggles facing Indian farmers are detailed in the article "Seeds of Suicide: India's Desperate Farmers" on Frontline. The transition to using the latest pest-resistant seeds and the necessary herbicides has been difficult. Farmers have used genetically modified seeds promoted by Cargill and Monsanto hoping for greater yields. Resulting debts from such gambles with genetically modified seeds have led some farmers into the equivalent of indentured servitude. More than 4,500 farmers have committed suicide, which some claim is mostly due to mounting debt caused by the poor yields, increased need for pesticides, and the higher cost of the Bt cotton seed sold by Monsanto.

Monsanto was very clearly trying to exploit a tragedy in order to ensure future profits. Thankfully, Haitians are burning their seeds. Honestly, how crappy do your seeds have to be that even people devastated by a massive natural disaster won't take them?

Normally, I'm very hesitant to believe stuff like this, as it's usually doesn't make sense. This does. Monsanto isn't specifically trying to LITERALLY poison Hatians (no profit in killing you customers/wage slaves) instead they're trying to impose themselves on the devistated Haitian economy in an attempt to push out the farmers cultivating natural creole seeds. They're hoping that the Hatians will be so desperate they won't care and take Monsanto's poisoned pill...Luckily, they guessed wrong.

Honestly Ren, I'm surprised at you, if you read the way the folks on the monsanto blog are responding, it's very clear (from a marketing perspective) that they're trying to hide something.

A company that's got nothing to hide isn't going to talk about the classification and the like. It's a very basic sales tactic: don't lie but present true facts that imply the wrong conclusion.