Vegan / Vegetarian Goths

[Despanan]

Originally Posted by JCC

Okay Despanan, let's have a crash course in basic English.

Person 1: I postulate the theory that nuclear missiles are spontaneously occurring death-machines with the intention of destroying the entire universe.

Person 2: Actually, given the evidence we have collected, more than nuclear missiles being spontaneous, HUMANS invented nuclear missiles.

As in, it is more likely that THIS (second theory) is the case, than THIS (first theory).

If that is proper grammar, and I'm not certain it is, that's a fucktarded way of saying something. If indeed people actually use that term (and I can't say I've ever encountered it before; colloquially or academically) you can't blame someone for becoming confused about it's meaning, especially on the bloody internet where the English language isn't just abused, it's dragged into the street and beaten with a pipe.

If indeed that is what Jillian meant I apologize for misunderstanding, however that's really more or less a technicality in the context of my original post anyway, as all of this lactose intolerance stuff has nothing to do with the debate at hand, and never did.

You know what, I barely remember what we're even arguing about anymore.

[ximmortalkitten]

I'm a vegetarian, going vegan VERY shortly. I was vegan back in 2008, but went back because I really wanted cheese on my pizza -Laughs- :P Anyway, I have been vegetarian for about 9-10 years now, and I originally went veg because I didn't want to eat animals, plain and simple. As I started to age and look deeper into it, I REALLY did not want to eat animals. When I was around 19, I found too many websites that started telling me how the egg and dairy industries are and that made me like it even less. I wanted to be vegan. I also learned that eating vegetarian/vegan is really good for the environment, which I'm all for as well. So it was really a mix of things for me. But because of my diet, I am anemic. I have been slightly anemic for years, but I am actually iron-deficient now (mostly because I was pregnant last year, and am still nursing. My baby is taking all my iron! :P) I never liked red meat or fish, chicken was okay sometimes, as with pork, but that was it. I prefer me some veggies! xD

[Pineapple_Juice]

Damn you for bringing this thread back to life.

[ximmortalkitten]

It happens :P

[Catch]

Maight as well:

Vegan to Flexitarian

[Skye Jules]

I want to be vegetarian, simply because I know I'd be fine without meat and for ethical reasons, but as it were, I live at home and am already a picky enough eater without having to complicate things more with my mom.

But I don't eat a whole lot of meat, in any case, and ever since I got into college and started eating less, which includes less meat, I've noticed that when I do get sick, it doesn't last as long as it used to, and I rarely get sick now.

[Alan]

If you can afford it, try finding food that is more humanely processed, like free range chicken.
If you ever become vegetarian, do note that the milk and eggs still come from the same factory farms if you haven't first committed yourself to humane companies. Also, none of that organic crap. Organic foods are just bullshit.

[Saya]

Originally Posted by Alan

If you can afford it, try finding food that is more humanely processed, like free range chicken.
If you ever become vegetarian, do note that the milk and eggs still come from the same factory farms if you haven't first committed yourself to humane companies. Also, none of that organic crap. Organic foods are just bullshit.

Why is organic bullshit? From what I understand, its one way to avoid buying GMO (although more organic farmers are sadly finding GMO in their crops), the less pesticides used the less health risks for farm workers, and the less damage done to the environment. I would understand that if meat consumption were to remain the same but all factory farms went free range organic, there would not be enough food or room and would lead to desertification and overgrazing, but for veggies I never heard any reason not to eat organic when possible.

[Pineapple_Juice]

Originally Posted by Skye Jules

I want to be vegetarian, simply because I know I'd be fine without meat and for ethical reasons, but as it were, I live at home and am already a picky enough eater without having to complicate things more with my mom.

But I don't eat a whole lot of meat, in any case, and ever since I got into college and started eating less, which includes less meat, I've noticed that when I do get sick, it doesn't last as long as it used to, and I rarely get sick now.

You're in college and your mom still cooks and buys your food for you?

[Still Jack]

I just love various meats too much to become vegetarian. I already eat a large amount of vegetables, but that's mostly garnishing, or a side dish, for the meat.

[KissMeDeadly]

Being the red-blooded, rootin' tootin' gun shootin' American that I am, I love the hell out of meat. One of the finest meals around, I think, is a nice, bloody rare Porterhouse steak, and maybe some of that green stuff next to my potato.

However.

I find it morally reprehensible to eat meat in my society. I'm not saying that humans are not natural omnivores, because we are, but what I'm saying is that I at least no longer have a need to eat meat. I have the luxury of not having to hunt for my food, or, in most cases, even worry about going hungry.

And so because of this, I find it wrong to needlessly take the life of another being. I feel it's my moral obligation to abstain from it because I consider it senseless killing. I'm one of those weird people who counts humans as another species of animal and therefore consider killing a cat on par with killing a human, even though they're arguably less sentient.

Now that I'm on the subject, I hate the 'sentience' argument. The argument that a cow is less sentient than a human, and therefore it is ok to kill or to keep in horrible conditions, seems like it should apply to mentally handicapped people. They're less sentient than the rest of us, can I put your retarded child in a cage, get him fat, butcher him, wear his skin, and eat him?

I think most people would disagree with killing retards (maybe not on Gnet, though )

But I feel maybe I should clarify that meat eating is OK for some, for example, homeless people who have nothing else to eat, or the more tribal cultures that still rely on hunting as a major source of food. Chad from accounting doesn't need to hunt for his food, but Tarzan King of the Jungle might, and that's perfectly OK.

I should also clarify my stance on plant eating, because I know what everybody is going to say already, that plants are alive and less sentient then humans. My reply? I have to eat something, and plants got the short end of the stick. It sucks for them, but really I don't think they'll complain as they don't have thoughts or feelings. I try not to even kill bugs if I can help it, but sometimes it's unavoidable.

[retribution]

Been a vegetarian since I was 8.
Don't really know why I started. Kinda just me being a stupid kid. Read some shit in a magazine about diseases you can get from meat, and I knew a vegetarian who I talked to a lot.

and I decided to be one.

Right now I am really glad I am a vegetarian, however. Not a big part of my life, but I'm definitely glad I am a vegetarian.

Is it just me or do goths seem to be more prone to be vegetarian? I've never meet a preppy vegetarian in my life, yet 10-20% of my friends are vegetarians.

[Alan]

Originally Posted by Saya

Why is organic bullshit? From what I understand, its one way to avoid buying GMO (although more organic farmers are sadly finding GMO in their crops), the less pesticides used the less health risks for farm workers, and the less damage done to the environment.

Most pesticides are benign. The issue is bad regulation, not pesticides.

I would understand that if meat consumption were to remain the same but all factory farms went free range organic, there would not be enough food or room and would lead to desertification and overgrazing, but for veggies I never heard any reason not to eat organic when possible.

Because organic food to be classified as organic cannot use synthetic fertilizers.
What this means is that the biggest, if not the only, fertilizer organic farms use is bovine manure, the biggest contaminant in the world. And let's not forget that this directly ties the organic industry as dependent on the existence of the bovine industry.

[Saya]

Originally Posted by Alan

Most pesticides are benign. The issue is bad regulation, not pesticides.
Because organic food to be classified as organic cannot use synthetic fertilizers.
What this means is that the biggest, if not the only, fertilizer organic farms use is bovine manure, the biggest contaminant in the world. And let's not forget that this directly ties the organic industry as dependent on the existence of the bovine industry.

You promote "humane" meat but you're upset that farms might use animal fertilizer? Aside from poisons found in synethic fertilizer, that does not mean that large non-organic farms do not use manure or bloodmeal in addition. Also, organic farms use less fertilizers anyway since they rely on crop rotation and green manure, and plant and mineral based fertilizers are available and widely used. While no doubt organic farms do use manure, not all of them do and even the ones that do are more likely just using it in addition to green manure and other non-animal fertilizers, its not like they utterly need it or are dependant on the bovine industry, at least no more so than any other farm. Its like saying I won't use the bus because their tires might have animal in them and then I go and buy my own car with leather seats.

[retribution]

Less meat is produced than the bread thats used to feed the animals. If people would just make bread with the grain it'd end world hunger.

[Alan]

Originally Posted by Saya

You promote "humane" meat but you're upset that farms might use animal fertilizer? Aside from poisons found in synethic fertilizer, that does not mean that large non-organic farms do not use manure or bloodmeal in addition. Also, organic farms use less fertilizers anyway since they rely on crop rotation and green manure, and plant and mineral based fertilizers are available and widely used. While no doubt organic farms do use manure, not all of them do and even the ones that do are more likely just using it in addition to green manure and other non-animal fertilizers, its not like they utterly need it or are dependant on the bovine industry, at least no more so than any other farm. Its like saying I won't use the bus because their tires might have animal in them and then I go and buy my own car with leather seats.

Uh, no, it isn't at all. That's a terrible analogy.
You just said a bunch of "but it might" clauses which naively presume that organic farms are small humane enterprises by people who care.
They are not. They are overwhelmingly merely subsidiaries to the same big agricultural industries, and the overwhelmingly use animal fertilizers.
Organic-obsessed lifestyles are as unsustainable as meat-based diets, and way more hypocritical.

The real practical solution is industrial agriculture veganism. I'm sick and tired of petty bourgeois people denying the crucial importance of the green revolution.

[donmara]

Originally Posted by Alan

Uh, no, it isn't at all. That's a terrible analogy.
You just said a bunch of "but it might" clauses which naively presume that organic farms are small humane enterprises by people who care.
They are not. They are overwhelmingly merely subsidiaries to the same big agricultural industries, and the overwhelmingly use animal fertilizers.
Organic-obsessed lifestyles are as unsustainable as meat-based diets, and way more hypocritical.

The real practical solution is industrial agriculture veganism. I'm sick and tired of petty bourgeois people denying the crucial importance of the green revolution.

Can you explain to me why the need for a green revolution ? I dont mean to fret, I'm just ignorant on this subject.

[retribution]

I've been looking into a diet of only vegetables, fruits, and hemp seed.
No grains.
I might try it out. I'll let you guys know.
But if I'm right, then its the diet of the future.

[Saya]

Originally Posted by Alan

Uh, no, it isn't at all. That's a terrible analogy.
You just said a bunch of "but it might" clauses which naively presume that organic farms are small humane enterprises by people who care.
They are not. They are overwhelmingly merely subsidiaries to the same big agricultural industries, and the overwhelmingly use animal fertilizers.
Organic-obsessed lifestyles are as unsustainable as meat-based diets, and way more hypocritical.

The real practical solution is industrial agriculture veganism. I'm sick and tired of petty bourgeois people denying the crucial importance of the green revolution.

There's might because you're painting a whole industry as if there are no exceptions. There are smaller organic farms that you can buy from, perhaps locally if you live in a place where there are local farms that are worse. On the other hand, you say that regulation is needed for pesticides and most are benign so its a moot point, but thats a big if too. Farming regulation can be very difficult, especially when it comes to animal products since their lobbyists have way too much influence. IF a farm chooses not to use harmful chemicals, then its okay, but not everyone is able to find that out but the organic label does ensure no pesticides, so no worries about that, and no GMO.

As for sustainability, I know we're always going to need an amount of industrial farming, and I certainly do encourage more regulation and I'm too poor to eat organic much of the time, but when I do have the money for it I'd just rather eat something that I know comes from a good source than one I don't know. When there is better regulation, I'll feel a bit better about it. As for whether its bourgeois or not, most people I know who tout organic are working class, we're trying to see if we can't start an urban garden in the near future (sadly we all live in basement apartments with animals around) and my local Food Not Bombs tends to get donations from local farms including the few organic farms we have, and my roommate and I do get free food from her parents when they harvest their organic garden. I have no feelings that organic farms are owned by philanthropists who till the earth with unicorns, just generally they're at least the lesser of evils as of right now.

[reqviem]

Who is living vegan / vegetarian? And why?

I 'm vegan. For two years now, three more as vegetarian. I answer your questions.

Ethic reasons? Yes, of course, the cruelty, insdustrialization and fucking capitalism.

Medical reasons? I think there's more heathlty.

Religious reasons? I don`t think is religion, but i belive in the conection and equilibrium with the mother earth and his/her creatures.

Flavor reasons? I don`t quit meat for flavor, is delicious. But my beliefs are more importants.

[Joker_in_the_Pack]

Originally Posted by reqviem

Who is living vegan / vegetarian? And why?

I 'm vegan. For two years now, three more as vegetarian. I answer your questions.

Good Job, me too.

Originally Posted by reqviem

Ethic reasons? Yes, of course, the cruelty, industrialization and fucking capitalism.

As much as I love to shit on capitalism (and I do) there are carnivorous communists.

Originally Posted by reqviem

Medical reasons? I think there's more heathlty.

Only when care is taken. A vegan who doesn't make sure they're getting the right nutrients and simply eats junk food is going to be very sick.

Originally Posted by reqviem

Religious reasons? I don`t think is religion, but i belive in the conection and equilibrium with the mother earth and his/her creatures.

Belief in the super natural is religion, whether major or not. The Idea of "Mother" Nature is religious.

Originally Posted by reqviem

Flavor reasons? I don`t quit meat for flavor, is delicious. But my beliefs are more importants.

Get spell check.

[KontanKarite]

Originally Posted by reqviem

Who is living vegan / vegetarian? And why?

I 'm vegan. For two years now, three more as vegetarian. I answer your questions.

Ethic reasons? Yes, of course, the cruelty, insdustrialization and fucking capitalism.

Medical reasons? I think there's more heathlty.

Religious reasons? I don`t think is religion, but i belive in the conection and equilibrium with the mother earth and his/her creatures.

Flavor reasons? I don`t quit meat for flavor, is delicious. But my beliefs are more importants.

...Fuck you, holy roller.

[triggerhappi26]

Tofu Vegan Zombie for you all!!!!!!

[Saya]

Its sad, I actually saw an episode of Tofu The Vegan Zombie.

[Pineapple_Juice]

I did too. Couldn't decide what to make of it.