Perception of firearms owners

[Skippy]

Originally Posted by Versus

I think he is explaining the large disparity by implying that black people commit more crimes to justify being shot. I'm not sure.

Bourbonboy, I don't think you've really explained your stance at length. What's your take on what AshleyO and I were talking about?

What I'm saying is that anyone of any race (white, black, ect) that is committing a violent act and is killed by their would be victim, deserves what happens to them because of their actions.

[Saya]

But you're really okay when black people die a lot more.

[Skippy]

Originally Posted by Saya

But you're really okay when black people die a lot more.

You keep asking that question.

Is it because you're butthurt that I called your racist bf a racist for his racist speech?

[Saya]

No, just quite honestly. you seem really okay that black people are dying and are far more likely to be incarcerated than white people and are insisting they must deserve it. You can say you don't see colour, but what you're saying is you're okay with the status quo and they get what they deserve.

[Skippy]

Originally Posted by Saya

No, just quite honestly. you seem really okay that black people are dying and are far more likely to be incarcerated than white people and are insisting they must deserve it. You can say you don't see colour, but what you're saying is you're okay with the status quo and they get what they deserve.

No, I actually want change to happen.

People like yourself and your bf are the ones supporting things the way they are now, people like yourself try to place your own racist thoughts into what someone else says to justify your contempt, because you won't own those thoughts and take responsibility for them, after all it's much easier to project those thoughts onto someone else isn't it?

[Saya]

Aren't you the one insinuating that the one time a black person was a dick to you, its way worse than black men being killed with their murderers getting away with it?

[Versus]

Originally Posted by Saya

Aren't you the one insinuating that the one time a black person was a dick to you, its way worse than black men being killed with their murderers getting away with it?

He's not saying that his discrimination was way worse. He's saying that it's the same.

And who can blame him. Racism is racism, right. I can't imagine the utter chill of terror that he must feel even now as the PoC equivalent of the KKK tells him he's wrong on the internet.

[BourbonBoy]

Originally Posted by Versus

Bourbonboy, I don't think you've really explained your stance at length. What's your take on what AshleyO and I were talking about?

I'm actually with AshleyO on arming the entire population honestly. Israel and Switzerland do it, why not 'Merica? And the reasons for me to have this conclusion is simply what's going on right now.
For one, let's be honest that the genie's out of the bottle and there's no way assault rifles are going to be made illegal again nor is there going to be a halt to the production of their ammunition anytime soon, there's too much money involved.
Secondly, by instituting a draft and public service that would make state/or federal service mandatory it would actually give people an incentive to take a few years to figure shit out. I have several younger cousins who have no idea what to do with themselves, one finally joined the army as I was getting out and it's given him direction for once in his life.
Third, this can help call out a lot of these gun nuts on their stance for firearms. They're either for everyone to have access to firearms, or they're just playing out power fantasies whenever they go out shooting and use their weapons as a status symbol. I mean, seriously, what purpose does a pink AR-15 have except to seek attention at a firing range? It's totally impractical for hunting or night firefights since you'll just stick out like a sore thumb.

[Skippy]

Originally Posted by Saya

Aren't you the one insinuating that the one time a black person was a dick to you, its way worse than black men being killed with their murderers getting away with it?

Try to twist this around all you want to, I never said any such thing.

Though I did say those of any race that attack others and die in the process get what they get.

[Skippy]

Originally Posted by BourbonBoy

I'm actually with AshleyO on arming the entire population honestly. Israel and Switzerland do it, why not 'Merica? And the reasons for me to have this conclusion is simply what's going on right now.
For one, let's be honest that the genie's out of the bottle and there's no way assault rifles are going to be made illegal again nor is there going to be a halt to the production of their ammunition anytime soon, there's too much money involved.
Secondly, by instituting a draft and public service that would make state/or federal service mandatory it would actually give people an incentive to take a few years to figure shit out. I have several younger cousins who have no idea what to do with themselves, one finally joined the army as I was getting out and it's given him direction for once in his life.
Third, this can help call out a lot of these gun nuts on their stance for firearms. They're either for everyone to have access to firearms, or they're just playing out power fantasies whenever they go out shooting and use their weapons as a status symbol. I mean, seriously, what purpose does a pink AR-15 have except to seek attention at a firing range? It's totally impractical for hunting or night firefights since you'll just stick out like a sore thumb.

I'm not going to respond to your idiocy anymore on this thread or any other thread.

[BourbonBoy]

Originally Posted by Skippy

I have nothing new to add to this thread other than to keep asking for more proof even though it's been put right in front of me multiple times!

Fixed it for you.

[AshleyO]

Well then know that EVERYONE HERE agrees with bourbonboy so that basically means you have no reason to respond to any thread on g.net. Good day.

[Versus]

Originally Posted by BourbonBoy

I'm actually with AshleyO on arming the entire population honestly. Israel and Switzerland do it, why not 'Merica? And the reasons for me to have this conclusion is simply what's going on right now.
For one, let's be honest that the genie's out of the bottle and there's no way assault rifles are going to be made illegal again nor is there going to be a halt to the production of their ammunition anytime soon, there's too much money involved.
Secondly, by instituting a draft and public service that would make state/or federal service mandatory it would actually give people an incentive to take a few years to figure shit out. I have several younger cousins who have no idea what to do with themselves, one finally joined the army as I was getting out and it's given him direction for once in his life.
Third, this can help call out a lot of these gun nuts on their stance for firearms. They're either for everyone to have access to firearms, or they're just playing out power fantasies whenever they go out shooting and use their weapons as a status symbol. I mean, seriously, what purpose does a pink AR-15 have except to seek attention at a firing range? It's totally impractical for hunting or night firefights since you'll just stick out like a sore thumb.

You don't anticipate that ending out badly for oppressed people who actually defend themselves?

[BourbonBoy]

Actually, I do. Cops are already viewed with suspicion by society at large, but knowing the average citizen is well armed might get them to back off a little. Hell, just look into why then Governor Reagan of California signed into law the Mulford Act.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/...f-guns/308608/

[Versus]

But people get gunned down anyway just because cops THINK they have a gun. Can you imagine what happens when they KNOW they have one?

[BourbonBoy]

That's actually a point I haven't thought of. But I think that would work out in two ways.
1. Harsher gun control laws that would directly point out how racist the system is before civil rights leaders and attorneys fight it through civil disobedience and in the courts.
2. Society finally taking a hard look at itself and admitting that it's been racist for years, forcing every local PD instituting long needed reforms after numerous law suits and people catching cops shooting kids for having a legal firearm on them and obeying the law.
Sadly, I think it will take either situation happening after it becomes a nationwide problem. Only then will people open their eyes that the system's been keeping people of color down in this country even after the Civil War and the Civil Rights Movement of the 1960's. Then again, Americans have a short attention span so who knows if even after all of that anything truly changes.

[Versus]

Well I don't just mean PoC. Yeah plenty of are killed or at least wrongfully shot by the cops but so are transwomen and Muslims and ad nausiam.

The thing is even those things that you mention are already happening. People see cops shoot kids all the time. People sue cops for it. And not even just cops. People call the cops on you for no fucking reason, you can't guess what would happen if they had a gun and knew that you had one too?

[BourbonBoy]

Sorry, PoC was the first thing that came to mind. The thing is, I have had the cops called on me simply for walking to the local corner store for a pack of smokes. Each time the first thing I always do is put my hands out and away from my body with fingers spread. Perhaps part of the classes offered in the schools should said firearms be given to the public would be how to react when a police officer pulls up when armed.
However, at this point I'm guessing.

[AshleyO]

BB, that's the whole point. You and I both expect the cops to be more careful and to be more judicious about how they handle a situation. However, the issue lies in the fact that cops are already conditioned to see non-white men as enemies to peace. Non-white people are guilty until proven innocent or just thought of as guilty and then killed. So add a gun into that mix that the cops KNOW the person has and what you're going to get is outright no questions asked shoot them before anything else.

Now it would make sense to do such a thing as arming an entire population if the population thought it necessary to do so, but only on the condition that we had a system that wasn't inherited from racism. But it is and so therefor, we're stuck with having to deal with that.

[Murder.Of.Crows]

Originally Posted by AshleyO

BB, that's the whole point. You and I both expect the cops to be more careful and to be more judicious about how they handle a situation. However, the issue lies in the fact that cops are already conditioned to see non-white men as enemies to peace. Non-white people are guilty until proven innocent or just thought of as guilty and then killed. So add a gun into that mix that the cops KNOW the person has and what you're going to get is outright no questions asked shoot them before anything else.

Now it would make sense to do such a thing as arming an entire population if the population thought it necessary to do so, but only on the condition that we had a system that wasn't inherited from racism. But it is and so therefor, we're stuck with having to deal with that.

I was actually going to add, that my police training seemed rather conditioned to being anti-PoC. Not intentionally, it's just, there.

[Murder.Of.Crows]

As a little side story to add on the initial discussion.

A few years ago some people in unmarked vans pulled into my backyard. Now, I live in a secluded area of the desert, so there aren't really defined property lines. My initial reaction was one out of fear. I grabbed my vest and shotgun and walked out there to find out why there were people in my backyard.

If I had known they had guns, rather than scared they might have, simply reaching into there jacket would have led me to fire on them. They were college students, simply checking on the desert vegetation. The guy was scared, because here I am holding a 12 gauge shotgun to his face. He simply tried replying with his i.d. and had no idea that he was on someones property.

If everyone had guns, I wouldn't be scared of the people that lose their minds, the people who break laws, or the people that are simply angry and irrational. I'd be scared of the people who are just as scared as I am.

[Alan]

I want a gun. I don't feel I deserve a gun.

[Versus]

Originally Posted by Murder.Of.Crows

I was actually going to add, that my police training seemed rather conditioned to being anti-PoC. Not intentionally, it's just, there.

MP side or civilian side

Originally Posted by Alan

I want a gun. I don't feel I deserve a gun.

Same. I was looking into buying another about a year back but felt it would be irresponsible after realizing and then weighting why I wanted one.

[Saya]

I think my thinking of guns have gotten more complicated in the last few years. On one hand, I live in a society where guns are pretty abhorred unless its for hunting or recreation. I have a right wing cousin who believes in gun rights, but her idea of protection is a hunting rifle she has, and to be fair she lives in the middle of nowhere and is way more concerned about coyotes than she is people. Recently, a police officer shot at, but didn't hit, a suspect at my campus who was stealing a car and injured another police officer while doing so. A lot of people are really upset that the cop fired his gun and there's an investigation into whether it was really necessary or not. I've heard many people say that cops shouldn't even have guns. I'm not saying police shootings don't happen here, but its usually very controversial when it does, even if they missed. Man, Iceland didn't even have its first cop shooting until recently.

But I watch Angela Davis's interview where she talks about murders and bombings in Birmingham and how the men had to start patrolling the neighborhood to protect themselves, and I can't say I don't think they shouldn't have done that. I'm not violently oppressed like that and I can't pretend to know what people should do in those kinds of situations.

[Alan]

Something I feel is relevant to add:
A couple of months ago Glenn Beck (yes, I listen to Glenn Beck; no, I don't know why I can't stop) was talking about the second amendment and how it's necessary to protect your valuable things from both robbers and the government.
Then he proceeded to some product placement in his show, as that hour was sponsored by a safebox company called Liberty Lock, the best safe to protect your freedoms. The dudes proceeded to talking about what valuables they keep in their Liberty Lock safes.
Glenn Beck said he keeps his guns in it.


So let's get this straight: Glenn Beck feels the need to have guns to protect his most valuable possessions, and those valuable possessions he wants to protect are his guns?

Can you think of a more beautiful example of the Tea Partier mentality?