Is there away to kill myself without going to hell?

[masquerade]

If there is a hell I always saw it as reliving the worst day of your life for eternity without the hope or satisfaction of relief. Just over and over and over again. Basically Ground Hogs Day, but with demons and such.. I guess.

Personally I wouldn't want to risk it. I refuse to live that day over and over again.

If you're a Christian though I guess you should ask yourself, is hell worth it? If you're in so much pain, is more pain worth it? You're young now, so your chance to escape this nightmare you're describing is rather good. Yet, if you off yourself and end up in Hell.. your chance of escaping that.. is absolutely zero.

[Tam Li Hua]

Since no one knows for sure what will happen to you if you commit suicide, I would keep living and searching for Spiritual Truth, if I were you.

You can believe whatever you want while you are alive...but believing it doesn't make it real. Get what I'm saying?

[MollyMac]

Precisely my point, when you are alive- things may suck but there is always something you can do. If you kill yourself, then it is solely in the hands of others because you gave up.

[Drake Dun]

I've used a similar argument on myself at times, actually. The cool thing about not killing yourself is that you can always change your mind later, and anyway things will take care of themselves eventually, if you catch my drift. Suicide OTOH is an irreversible decision.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Besides, suicide seriously shows a lack of creativity.
The possibilities we can do with our lives are staggering, and yet we sadly repeat the last day in slightly different manners. And now someone comes along and says that that much limitation is too much for them?!

[Alarica]

To answer the original question about going to hell though, it would spark another 'does god exist' debate. Truth of the matter is, nobody knows if you will go to hell anyway. Suicide is selfish and cowardly, and depending on your reasons for contemplating it and your age, depends who you ask for help. If you can get yourself through this, it will make you a better person, and maybe you will be in a position to help someone else one day. What doesnt kill you, makes you stronger.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Alarica

Suicide is selfish and cowardly

Oh, be quiet. It would hardly be selfish if a person with no connections topped themself.

[Ms.Crowbar]

Originally Posted by Albert Mond

Nah. It's constant and eternal torture, generally believed to be whatever the victim of living most despises.

Uh, only if you've sinned badly.
Apparently, if all you've done is lie and dishonour your parents (Guilty as charged) then you go to Limbo or the second level of Hell, where it isn't so bad as level 9.

Korinna, at least I'm not throwing rocks at him/her.

[Steele_Mistress]

There's honestly no point in killing yourself. I've thought about it many times and, too, am a part of a religion. There's still no point in killing yourself whether you are religious or not. Life sucks but there is no reason for you to end it. I believe the saying "Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem." There will always be a way for you to cope with or rid of your problems, killing yourself won't help that because it will be left behind for those who love you to cope with.

[Alarica]

Clearly chapel does have connections, what with going to church and probably school. But hey, if someone I have no connection to wants to top themself, I honestly couldnt care less. If they are serious they dont talk about it, they just do it. I'm not one of their family members or friends thank god, who will be left grieving and asking questions with no answers.

[jack_the_knife]

Originally Posted by Alarica

If they are serious they don't talk about it, they just do it.

Quoted for truth.

[KontanKarite]

Originally Posted by Ms.Crowbar

Uh, only if you've sinned badly.
Apparently, if all you've done is lie and dishonour your parents (Guilty as charged) then you go to Limbo or the second level of Hell, where it isn't so bad as level 9.

Korinna, at least I'm not throwing rocks at him/her.

Dante's Inferno is not a real critique of the nature of Hell...

[Petronius]

Originally Posted by Drake Dun

Quick, someone put a leash on me!

A serious question, though, for those of you who call yourselves Christians. Isn't it just a little embarassing when one of these jackass fear worshipers comes around making a sick joke of the ideology with which you affiliate yourselves?

Petronius, I'll deal with your bullshit soon enough (in a new thread, which I'll entitle "Pascal's Wager"). In the meantime, see if you can go look yourself in the mirror. You've just tried to take advantage of a person's suffering and turn it into a weapon against her, to reinforce the poisonous trash with which she has been brainwashed by, apparently, the very people who are physically abusing her (assuming what she says is true). It must feel so good to be so righteous - just like her good Christian daddy does when he smacks her around for being a bad girl.

Go burn in your hell. It's your fantasy, not ours, and you deserve every square inch of it it to yourself.

Yo Drake Dun. How come you are so aggressive? What happened to that "religious tolerance". Why would I try to take advantage of that poor girl? What do I have to gain? I just said my opinion, like you said yours.
And you should think about something: you are actually telling her to commit suicide, while I'm saying the opposite. You are a real sukabitch!

Mi-e mila de tine!

[JCC]

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

Dante's Inferno is not a real critique of the nature of Hell...

My edition of the Divine Comedy had a foreword that said that it was recognised as canon by the Church, if that's true, then it is a real critique.

[Tam Li Hua]

Originally Posted by Drake Dun

Quick, someone put a leash on me!

A serious question, though, for those of you who call yourselves Christians. Isn't it just a little embarassing when one of these jackass fear worshipers comes around making a sick joke of the ideology with which you affiliate yourselves?

What are you talking about exactly..?

Petronius, I'll deal with your bullshit soon enough (in a new thread, which I'll entitle "Pascal's Wager"). In the meantime, see if you can go look yourself in the mirror. You've just tried to take advantage of a person's suffering and turn it into a weapon against her, to reinforce the poisonous trash with which she has been brainwashed by, apparently, the very people who are physically abusing her (assuming what she says is true). It must feel so good to be so righteous - just like her good Christian daddy does when he smacks her around for being a bad girl.

I haven't gotten too involved in this thread, but I'd have to say that, if her father is abusing her, then he's definitely not practicing the most important law Christ laid down: To love others as one loves themselves.

You seem to lump all Christians together, and say that because -some- are abusers, then -all- are abusers. I am a Christian, but child abuse makes me infuriated as well. It makes me mad as a hornet when folks take the Word of God....which was meant to promote love and peace...and twist it to satisfy their own twisted view of the world so they can rationalize whatever evil they perpetuate.

I seriously do not see how God would be pleased with such folks. :/

Go burn in your hell. It's your fantasy, not ours, and you deserve every square inch of it it to yourself.

Just because you don't believe in it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I could believe that China doesn't exist, but that doesn't unmake China.

[BTW, you also can't be infuriated with God and not believe in Him at the same time. Also, if you are angry at specific people, then you have to deal with those people, and not blame the entire religion for the faults of folks who hurt you; it's prejudiced and unfair.]

[MollyMac]

Originally Posted by JCC

My edition of the Divine Comedy had a foreword that said that it was recognised as canon by the Church, if that's true, then it is a real critique.

Not for protestants, it isn't. The acceptances of the mother-whoring idolatry of the Catholics* if of little use to those who followed Luther.

*their terminology, not mine.

"A serious question, though, for those of you who call yourselves Christians. Isn't it just a little embarassing when one of these jackass fear worshipers comes around making a sick joke of the ideology with which you affiliate yourselves?"

One. Key word. Isn't it embarrassing that you find yourself being critical of the many by the actions of the one? Don't go all Columbine on us, now.

[Apathy's_Child]

OP - take up smoking and become a heavy drinker?

Just trying to help.

[Drake Dun]

Originally Posted by Petronius

Yo Drake Dun. How come you are so aggressive? What happened to that "religious tolerance".

I'm aggressive toward anyone who can subscribe to a theological scheme in which people who need help get torture instead. If your god sends suicides to hell, he's a monster, and if you worship a god that sends suicides to hell, you've let your basic ethical sense be completely highjacked by religious nonsense. The result is that you end up looking rather like a monster yourself. I like how you added the little detail that she gets to go to the worst part of hell. Is there some exegetical basis for that, or was it your own bilious gloss?

I'm not sure what you're referring to with "that" religious tolerance, but what I understand by the term does not extend so far as (1) tiptoeing quietly away when I disagree or (2) pretending that hateful, fear-mongering trash is an opinion that deserves a place at the table. I'm unaplogetically intolerant toward Muslims calling for gays to be stoned to death. I'm intolerant toward Benny Hinn type frauds using religion to bilk innocents. And I'm intolerant toward what you're doing, for roughly the same reasons. Tolerance is not some kind of totalizing principle that enjoins us to stand quietly by while people are emotionally brutalized.

You can pull out the trump card of "tolerance" and "respect", but you know what? Its shiny get-out-of-jail-free magic is starting to wear thin. A time is coming when people like you who go around terrorizing others with your paranoid delusions of eternal punishment will be called upon to justify yourselves in the public discourse, the same way the rest of us do any time we voice an opinion on something. People are getting wise to the fact that "religious tolerance" too often really means, "Shut up and don't criticize this, because logically, ethically, and on every important score - we haven't got a leg to stand on."

Why would I try to take advantage of that poor girl? What do I have to gain? I just said my opinion, like you said yours.

I don't think you're trying to get anything out of her for yourself. I think you're just repeating back hateful garbage that someone or other has victimized you with in the past, with the intention or at least the result of reinforcing its hold on the mind of another. But the answer to being lied to, terrorized and brainwashed isn't to subject others to the same. It's to fight back.

And you should think about something: you are actually telling her to commit suicide, while I'm saying the opposite.

I told her in plain English not to commit suicide. You're trying to scare the fuck out of her and add terror to pain - insult to injury. And I don't recognize your authority to hold any opinion on any question of morality if you assent to a scheme in which innocent people are threatened with torture.

You don't have the moral high ground. You don't even have a moral footing. The only reason you can get away with that shit in the wider world is that so many of the people around you have been cowed into buying the same psychotic mythology. Here on the Internet you can't shut up the voices of sanity and reason by bringing social pressure to bear, any more than you can shut down the dialogue with hand wringing about "tolerance". And here at Gothic.net you're not going to find a lot of people to support your message of hate and fear. What you'll find out instead is exactly how quickly you can cause loudmouthed atheists like myself and religious people who value their humanity to unite against what you're doing.

This shit must stop. Enough is enough. Time to abolish hell.

[Drake Dun]

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

You seem to lump all Christians together, and say that because -some- are abusers, then -all- are abusers. I am a Christian, but child abuse makes me infuriated as well. It makes me mad as a hornet when folks take the Word of God....which was meant to promote love and peace...and twist it to satisfy their own twisted view of the world so they can rationalize whatever evil they perpetuate.

I seriously do not see how God would be pleased with such folks. :/

I was a little off the handle when I wrote that post, and I don't want to give that impression. To be blunt, I get really angry about this stuff because it is so obviously and deeply inhuman and I feel like I'm usually the only one taking it on.

Just because you don't believe in it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I could believe that China doesn't exist, but that doesn't unmake China.

True enough, but we just went through all this. There is no real reason to suppose that it does exist, leaving us with only Pascal's wager type excuses for pretending it does. See the thread in General for that. In the meantime, it's a positively repulsive doctrine to go around subjecting people to.

[BTW, you also can't be infuriated with God and not believe in Him at the same time. Also, if you are angry at specific people, then you have to deal with those people, and not blame the entire religion for the faults of folks who hurt you; it's prejudiced and unfair.][/color][/size]

I'm not infuriated with YHWH, because as you point out, I don't believe in him. But I am infuriated with people who believe in the version of him that's spelled out in the Bible. And that's the basic problem here. As between the more reasonable Christians and the jerkoff fundies, it's the fundies who are much closer to an honest interpretation of the Bible. The only reason moderate Christians can believe the Bible is because they never read it. So if the religion is defined on the basis of its supposedly inerrant holy text, then yes. I do condemn the entire religion, categorically. And if you want justification for that, you'll get it in spades, with specific textual citations.

[Apathy's_Child]

Originally Posted by Drake Dun

I'm not sure what you're referring to with "that" religious tolerance, but what I understand by the term does not extend so far as (1) tiptoeing quietly away when I disagree or (2) pretending that hateful, fear-mongering trash is an opinion that deserves a place at the table. I'm unaplogetically intolerant toward Muslims calling for gays to be stoned to death. I'm intolerant toward Benny Hinn type frauds using religion to bilk innocents. And I'm intolerant toward what you're doing, for roughly the same reasons. Tolerance is not some kind of totalizing principle that enjoins us to stand quietly by while people are emotionally brutalized.

You can pull out the trump card of "tolerance" and "respect", but you know what? Its shiny get-out-of-jail-free magic is starting to wear thin. A time is coming when people like you who go around terrorizing others with your paranoid delusions of eternal punishment will be called upon to justify yourselves in the public discourse, the same way the rest of us do any time we voice an opinion on something. People are getting wise to the fact that "religious tolerance" too often really means, "Shut up and don't criticize this, because logically, ethically, and on every important score - we haven't got a leg to stand on."

I think I just came.

[Petronius]

Drake, are you saying I should be ashamed of my belief? Christianity is for the strong and for the weak as well. You obviously are uneducated about this matter but I guess that doesn't stop you from making a lot of noise... What if I were buddhist? What whould you think about me then? I'm gonna be as sincere as I can be. Probably it is a mistake, but... fuck it.

In the past seven years I have suffered from a chronic form of obsessive-compulsive syndrome. I went to a lot of doctors, taken entire kilos of pills, and thought of suicide countless time. And you know what made me feel better?... my faith in God. My faith in God saved me, and now I can live a normal life. So it wasn't the cognitive therapy, it wasn't the pills. It was praying to God every time I felt I could not endure anymore sickness. So maybe having faith in God is not the worst thing in the world.

[Ms.Crowbar]

Look, if the girl wants to kill herself, let her.
It would be awfully wrong of us to stop her fulfilling her wishes.
On a more serious note, I think that if someone wants to commit suicide, then they should not be stopped. If someone is in so much pain that they want to end their lives, then let them. We don't have the right to try and stop them.
But, OP, if you were truly going to kill yourself, I'd doubt that you'd be telling us about it.

[gothicusmaximus]

Regardless of whether you believe in hell as described in the Inferno or not, Dante is clear that suicides are turned into trees and subjected to other unpleasantries.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by Ms.Crowbar

Uh, only if you've sinned badly.
Apparently, if all you've done is lie and dishonour your parents (Guilty as charged) then you go to Limbo or the second level of Hell, where it isn't so bad as level 9.

Korinna, at least I'm not throwing rocks at him/her.

Not everyone is Catholic, you ignorant fool.

[Albert Mond]

Originally Posted by Ms.Crowbar

Uh, only if you've sinned badly.
Apparently, if all you've done is lie and dishonour your parents (Guilty as charged) then you go to Limbo or the second level of Hell, where it isn't so bad as level 9.

That's because Limbo isn't really Hell. Limbo's more in between Earth and Hell.