Gun ownership and mental health (psychological) screenings

[Saya]

Originally Posted by Jonathan

No, it's a response to the bullshit stupid bad dumb argument that "privileged people don't care about people who aren't privileged". God what an infuriatingly terrible belief. Leaving aside of course that not believing racism is the sole exclusive social problem is not the same thing as denying racism is A problem. It's not about whether it 'cancels out' the race or economic standing of the school, it's that murdering children is really awful! Who gives a fuck what their income bracket or race is? Other than you, I guess. WOW.

Did I say I don't care about these kids? What I'm saying is, when its brown kids, the media doesn't care, white people don't care. The president never cried on tv over those Vietnamese kids in 1989. And despite the whiteness of the crime, we immediately blame mental illness because apparently violence against PoC is understandable and normalized.

David Berkowitz followed his delusional belief set to it's logical conclusion. Do you think he was sane?

You know they have never been able to profile him? We have no idea what his motive was. After his conviction, he admitted he made up all the Satanic stuff. I think now he claims that he wasn't solely responsible and it was the work of a Satanic cult he had joined, but there's no evidence of that. Based on what we know of him, there isn't much to go on to say he was mentally ill.

[Jonathan]

Who's the spokesperson for white people telling you what we as a homogenous bloc think or care about? I'd like to register a formal complaint with his office for misrepresentation, since this is what you're taking away from whoever he might be.

Originally Posted by Jonathan

Do you think he was sane?

Well, that answes that. Son of Sam, pronounced sane by internet mental health expert.

[Saya]

Originally Posted by Jonathan

Or if you prefer, do you think he was mentally healthy?

I'm not a doctor, I'm generally of the opinion the only "mentally healthy" people who exist are probably Buddhas, and most importantly, like I said, we know next to nothing about his real reasoning or intentions or motivations.

[Jonathan]

Marshall Applewhite followed his belief set to it's logical conclusion, along with 38 others. All sane of course. What's not sane about believing you are an alien and need to kill yourself in order to hitch a ride on a passing comet?

[BourbonBoy]

Originally Posted by Saya

What I'm saying is, when its brown kids, the media doesn't care, white people don't care. The president never cried on tv over those Vietnamese kids in 1989. And despite the whiteness of the crime, we immediately blame mental illness because apparently violence against PoC is understandable and normalized.

Precisely. Here's the Hispanic communities attitude about school shootings. BTW, this was made more than ten years ago.

http://youtu.be/0gu5l7doS80

[Saya]

So what's your point of coming up with individual cases as if they speak for all violence and all the mentally ill?

You know who was tested and tested and tested and found to be sane? Ted Bundy.

[Jonathan]

Originally Posted by Saya

So what's your point of coming up with individual cases as if they speak for all violence and all the mentally ill?

You know who was tested and tested and tested and found to be sane? Ted Bundy.

I was just starting to wonder if anyone was ever actually insane.

Emperor Nero - just faking it.

[Saya]

Originally Posted by Jonathan

I was just starting to wonder if anyone was ever actually insane.

Emperor Nero - just faking it.

[Miss Absynthe]

Originally Posted by Saya

So what's your point of coming up with individual cases as if they speak for all violence and all the mentally ill?

You know who was tested and tested and tested and found to be sane? Ted Bundy.

You realise that he's quite right to be offended at the idea of a "homogenous bloc" of white people who share the same thoughts on something.. and then totally allowed to imply the same of mentally ill people.

Because that's not privilege at work there at all. Nope.

[Jonathan]

in·sane
/inˈsān/
Adjective

In a state of mind that prevents normal perception, behavior, or social interaction; seriously mentally ill.
(of an action or quality) Characterized or caused by madness.

[Saya]

Its not a medical term, psychologists do not use it. It IS used in the legal system, to be legally insane you can't know right from wrong and are not responsible for their actions. Most of the people discussed in this thread would not meet the requirements for being legally insane, nor do most meet the requirements to be psychotic. Otherwise you're just using "insane" in the way that store prices are so low its insane or its snowing so much its insane.

[Jonathan]

Or that they murdered so many people, it's insane.

[Saya]

But it doesn't really mean anything, except maybe as an ableist derogatory term.

[Jonathan]

Originally Posted by Saya

But it doesn't really mean anything, except maybe as an ableist derogatory term.

Wait I'm losing track, was your complaint that I didn't know what the word meant, or that the word was bad?

[Saya]

The word has no meaning when it comes to mental illness, so using it in this thread is totally irrelevant. "Insane" colloquially is just an ableist term to describe what is perceived as irrational.

[Jonathan]

No actually it does, see it refers to severe mental illness and madness as the quote from the good people of Merriam-Webster attests.

Insanity, craziness or madness is a spectrum of behaviors characterized by certain abnormal mental or behavioral patterns. Like killing 20 children, or participating in a mass cult suicide.

You are insisting that a word doesn't mean what it's definition says it means.

If I were using the term colloquially, I would say our conversation is insane. Then you'd have a point.

[Miss Absynthe]

@Jonathan - you are talking about the common-use definition of the word, MW is talking about the common-use definition of the word.

Saya is talking about the fact that the word is not used in psychological fields.. in the same way "high blood pressure" is a common-use term but not a medical one.

[Saya]

I'm also saying its used so casually its lost any meaning it once had. "Insane" can describe anything irrational or anything you disagree with, I wouldn't really use the same terms to describe a mass murder as I would my cat hyped up on cat nip.

[Saya]

Its also important to note that the dictionary uses colloquial definitions and isn't a great place to look for complex ideas. The legal definition, which is the only real professional setting where you'll use the word "insane", defines it as

insanity
n. mental illness of such a severe nature that a person cannot distinguish fantasy from reality, cannot conduct her/his affairs due to psychosis, or is subject to uncontrollable impulsive behavior. Insanity is distinguished from low intelligence or mental deficiency due to age or injury.

http://dictionary.law.com/Default.as...=979&bold=||||

In which again, most people mentioned in this thread would be deemed perfectly sane.

[Jonathan]

Originally Posted by Saya

I'm also saying its used so casually its lost any meaning it once had. "Insane" can describe anything irrational or anything you disagree with, I wouldn't really use the same terms to describe a mass murder as I would my cat hyped up on cat nip.

Insane doesn't mean disagreement though. It's use in that context is incorrect. In the context of someone experiencing a psychological dysfunction, it is non-specific but not incorrect.

[Miss Absynthe]

Talking about someone experiencing psychological dysfunction in an accurate, clinical way - it is incorrect.

Talking about someone experiencing psychological dysfunction in layman's terms that perpetuate ableism and the stigma attached to mental illness - well.. you see where this is going.

[ape descendant]

Some one with a Chronic Depression is still able to know the difference between right and wrong.

There's one example where MI =/= batshit crazy killing people left and right

I've got more where that came from, but it would be more fun if every one else pointed out similar examples.

[Versus]

It gets me hard when people talk about things like their gut reactions and brands of common sense carry weight and authority. Dude, don't stop. It feels so good.

[Saya]

Originally Posted by Miss Absynthe

Talking about someone experiencing psychological dysfunction in an accurate, clinical way - it is incorrect.

Talking about someone experiencing psychological dysfunction in layman's terms that perpetuate ableism and the stigma attached to mental illness - well.. you see where this is going.

[Jonathan]

Originally Posted by ape descendant

Some one with a Chronic Depression is still able to know the difference between right and wrong.

There's one example where MI =/= batshit crazy killing people left and right

I've got more where that came from, but it would be more fun if every one else pointed out similar examples.

Except I am not saying everyone who happens to have some form of mental illness is batshit crazy. I just don't think someone who poses a danger to themselves or others should be allowed to complete the purchase of a firearm - a sentiment that is already the case to a certain degree.

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Sections 922(g) and (n) of the Gun Control Act prohibits certain persons from shipping or transporting any firearm in interstate or foreign commerce, or receiving any firearm which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, or possessing any firearm in or affecting commerce. These prohibitions apply to any person who:

Has been convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year
Is under indictment for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year
Is a fugitive from justice
Is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance
Has been adjudicated as a mental defective or committed to a mental institution
Is illegally or unlawfully in the United States
Has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions
Having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced U.S. citizenship
Is subject to a court order that restrains the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of such intimate partner
Has been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence

In addition to local, state, tribal, and federal agencies voluntarily contributing information to the NICS Index, the NICS Section receives telephone calls from mental health institutions, psychiatrists, police departments, and family members requesting placement of individuals into the NICS Index. Frequently, these are emergency situations and require immediate attention. Any documentation justifying a valid entry into the NICS Index must be available to the originating agencies." *emphasis added*
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A point of sale check as a last minute verification that a person who should otherwise be barred hasn't slipped through is not a terrible idea.