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Old 12-11-2008, 01:25 AM   #26
Man In Room 5
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alarica
It does help to remember that not everyone was encouraged to appreciate books as a child, so something that is a pleasure to many is seen as something you only do in school because you are forced to, and never learn to enjoy.
Your arguement proves nothing because the type of person you describe is my very definition of idiot.

For example: It's commonly known at my job that I write a lot and hope to get things published and occasionally a co-worker will ask to see something I wrote. 90% of the time I refuse to show it and occasionally person A will be upset that I showed something to person B and not themselves. My deciding criteria is simply do I know the other person reads for pleasure. I see no point in showing my work to someone who doesn't read otherwise. They're not able to critique the work, they know nothing of literature and I must question their motives for wanting to read anything I write.

I suspect these people want to read my work only as a way to get to know me, rather than for the appreciation of the work itself and--since I have no desire to know anyone who doesn't read--I refuse to show them my work.

In short, I don't associate with non-readers unless I'm forced to, such as in my work environment, and when I am forced to deal with them their opinions on most artistic things (movies, books, music, art) are of little value to me.
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Old 12-11-2008, 03:29 AM   #27
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I know lots of people who don't read unless they have to, they're not stupid but I do find myself trying to convince them to read a book. And I promise Maromi it'll do your grammar wonders, and you'll learn a lot too

You read manga, right? Maybe its just a short attention span, if thats the case why not start reading books of short stories? They're short and sweet, so before you can get bored you've finished the story! And there are lots of books that are easy reading too, they are easy to follow and very interesting so before you know it you've finished the whole book!
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Old 12-11-2008, 03:39 AM   #28
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Nobody has actually recommended any books to you, so:

'1984' 'Animal Farm' - George Orwell
'The Picture of Dorian Gray' - Oscar Wilde
'Crime and Punishment' - Fyodor Dostoevsky
'On The Road' - Jack Kerouac
'The Stranger' - Albert Camus
'The Plague' - Albert Camus
'Ask The Dust' - John Fante

There's seven easy starters, except Crime and Punishment which is pretty long but is also my favourite book of all time, so do not avoid it because of that.
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Old 12-11-2008, 04:08 AM   #29
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I have not seen such small minded drivel in a long time. Coming from someone who claims to be a writer, you have a disgusting attitude towards people who do not read. Pull you head out of your arse for 5 minutes and step back a little. I'm sure the people who you so small mindedly refuse to show your work to, have realised your work probably isnt worth reading anyway, seeing as you have already decided that those who don't read are idiots.
There happens to be a vast number of people the world over who do not read, for many reasons.

I was not arguing, nor was I trying to prove anything. I was merely stating a fact. People who do not read are not idiots at all. Many people were not encouraged to read as children. Many parents did not and still dont, buy books for their children. If they arent or werent encouraged to read, then they do not grow up wanting to. Not everyone can be as perfect as you.
My own children love books and they love learning. They read for both pleasure AND to gain knowledge. This is because I have always bought books for them and encouraged reading, as my parents did for me. On the flip side, to support my 'point' I have 2 friends with children, and their children have every toy, game and computer console going but arent bought books and arent encouraged to read. They think they are in heaven when they visit me because of all the books we have. 1 of my 7yr olds has been classed as a gifted child based on her literacy ability alone. My other 7yr old struggles with her literacy. I do not class her as an idiot though.

I do my level best not to associate with bigots like you, though sometimes they are simply impossible to avoid.

If everyone thought like you, that people who do not read are idiots and are therefore not worthy of being acknowledged, then many people would end up like Maromi. Thinking they are unintelligent. Whereas a little encouragement goes a long way. Try suggesting something Maromi might read to stir up their interest, that may lead to a new found love of books. Do something helpful instead of reinforcing all the negatives.

And as for your book. 1 day you may be surprised to find that someone you deem unworthy of reading it, will find it far more interesting than someone you deemed worthy.
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Old 12-11-2008, 04:52 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alarica
I have not seen such small minded drivel in a long time. Coming from someone who claims to be a writer, you have a disgusting attitude towards people who do not read.
Every writer I know personally has the same attitude. They only hesitate to state it as openly as I have because of attacks like yours. There is a huge gap between writers (or any artist) and the general public. Why do you think most writers and musicians don't answer fan mail or post publicly to boards like this? Because they don't want to enter into exactly this sort of debate with someone who may know nothing of their chosen art.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alarica
I'm sure the people who you so small mindedly refuse to show your work to, have realised your work probably isnt worth reading anyway, seeing as you have already decided that those who don't read are idiots.
How would they realize that if they're not readers? What standard of comparison do they have? You're trying to tell me that people who do not appreciate an art can judge it based on no past experience or familiarity? I'm sorry, but if you don't follow literature at least as closely as me then what is your opinion going to give me? I don't deny those people the ability to read anything I write but they don't get to read it until after it gets published. When something is merely a draft I have no need of their opinions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alarica
People who do not read are not idiots at all.
I don't deny that non-readers can be intelligent in other areas, but they are not intelligent in the areas most important to me and therefore I disregard their opinions in that area.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Alarica
If everyone thought like you, that people who do not read are idiots and are therefore not worthy of being acknowledged, then many people would end up like Maromi.
No, if more people thought like me we'd have more intelligent people. Shame and dissatisfaction with themselves would drive them to educate themselves more. I don't know anyone--idiot or not--who doesn't want to be even smarter than they already are. Idiots and geniuses alike all wish they were even smarter. Maybe if more people pushed the idea that reading promotes intelligence then more people would push themselves to read.
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Old 12-11-2008, 06:30 AM   #31
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Lady, don't you know most writers are bastards? Sorry to sound so blunt and unelaborate but it's true! It's a law of the nature or something. *dodges the flying tomatoes*

As for you, Maromi, i don't know you, and people on the forum probably know some parts of you. Can't say if you're stupid, but... Being smart isn't only in how much you've read. In this day and age, there's movies, games, comics, travels.... All these can and will contribute to your personality, as will your genetic code. Simply by interacting with all these grammar nazis you can learn a word or two, even some grammatical rules.

Even reading fun stuff like Harry Potter or Berserk will be good for you.
If you really cannot find enjoyment in reading books, compensate for it in other ways. Just DO things to encourage personal growth. But do not lie down on the road and decide you are stupid, with no further decisions to help yourself on that matter. That's when you're really being stupid.
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Old 12-11-2008, 06:39 AM   #32
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I'm starting to see your point on the writers being bastards, Hades. Very silly of me to expect atleast 1 to want to help 1 person to better themselves! I think Maromi should be given some credit for starting this thread. Harry Potter is a good place to start. Theres a set of books my eldest asked for, the dragon orb books I think? The author is ex-RAF, and went to her school as he does many, and talks to the students about his life and work. Kind of motivational I suppose and he really encouraged a lot of kids who wouldnt otherwise bother, to pick up a book and start reading. THAT to me is a good author. I've personally met several good childrens authors in a workshop weekend I helped my mum organise, so it seems perhaps 'adult authors' are the arseholes.
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Old 12-11-2008, 06:56 AM   #33
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Notice that Alarica didn't actually reply to any of the points I raised. She should just make this her avatar.

http://www.infendo.com/wp-content/up..._backpedal.jpg
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Old 12-11-2008, 07:09 AM   #34
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Oh, to recommend books, Maromi you might like Girl, Interrupted by Susanna Kaysen. Its much much much better than the movie, I promise Its a memoir of the eighteen months she spent in a mental asylum. Very very good and easy to read. Also Smoke And Mirrors by Neil Gaiman, or Coraline by Neil Gaiman. Smoke And Mirrors are short stories, and Coraline is a novel, soon to be a movie too.
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Old 12-11-2008, 08:24 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Man In Room 5
Notice that Alarica didn't actually reply to any of the points I raised. She should just make this her avatar.

http://www.infendo.com/wp-content/up..._backpedal.jpg
Actually, I didnt reply, because i had important things to do. And upon reading the 'points' you claim to have made, it is more than obvious, that you are just a jumped up little man who thinks pushing a pen around gives him to right to declare that those who dont read are idiots in his eyes.

So tell me, just because every writer you know has the same revolting attitude to 'non-writers' that means you have to do it too does it? Yes, Such a valid 'point' you make. If the same idiots thought it a good idea to jump off a bridge infront of a fast approaching train, would you also do it?

Attacks like mine? Oh please. If you are going to be an arsehole I'm going to comment. Were you asleep when I was declared a cunt? Do not think that your lame attempt at an insult was worthy. You can now line up with the other spamming trolls. sad little man.

You were the one who declared people as non-readers and therefore idiots not worthy of reading your tosh. Not me. There are countless members of this forum who follow literature, and I expect they do so 'as closely' as you. I guarantee they are not as small minded as you, however.

Your 'I'm a writer and follow literature so closely i'm holier than thou' attitude just makes me laugh to be honest. More so because I spend 2 hours busily doing things and come back to 'notice Alarica didnt actually reply to any of the points I raised'. Grow up. I had better things to do than respond to a pompous halfwit, who thinks he's something special because he's 'writing a book'.
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Old 12-11-2008, 09:33 AM   #36
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Two hours was sufficient time for you to write a tirade against me. Perhaps you should have used your time more wisely in answering my questions or defending your position instead of resorting to unfounded ad hominem attack. As it stands you still haven't actually defended your stance or replied to my claims. Your failure to do so only makes my point that much more valid.

The problem with you is that you're so easy to bait that it isn't even fun anymore.
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Old 12-11-2008, 09:52 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hades
Lady, don't you know most writers are bastards? Sorry to sound so blunt and unelaborate but it's true! It's a law of the nature or something. *dodges the flying tomatoes*
Hey! Didn't I teach you that?
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Old 12-11-2008, 09:58 AM   #38
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2 hours was spent doing things far more enjoyable than reading your ramblings. Believe me. Or are you too retarded to recall my saying I have 4 smaller responsibilities, a house, pets, etc?

I do not have to defend anything. You are the one who chose to pull up my point that not everyone is raised as a book lover. You are the one who deems people who do not read, as idiots in your eyes. You make no point whatsoever, other than the fact that you think far too highly of yourself because you do read.

And get over this obsession with me attacking you. Lord man, you are defensive. You are the one who chose to quote me and whine, not the other way around. I am sorry you have had a bad day and need to bitch incessantly about points that need responses or defending. I said my piece, you clearly just want to argue with me to try and gain status with other members.
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Old 12-11-2008, 10:45 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCC
Nobody has actually recommended any books to you, so:

'1984' 'Animal Farm' - George Orwell
'The Picture of Dorian Gray' - Oscar Wilde
'Crime and Punishment' - Fyodor Dostoevsky
'On The Road' - Jack Kerouac
'The Stranger' - Albert Camus
'The Plague' - Albert Camus
'Ask The Dust' - John Fante

There's seven easy starters, except Crime and Punishment which is pretty long but is also my favourite book of all time, so do not avoid it because of that.
These are all great books, but they might be a little challenging for someone who doesn't read much. I'm an avid reader, but I found On The Road quite difficult to digest. The structuring and grammar is a real pain because it makes you have to re-read some paragraphs because they just don't make any sense. If he's into that genre, then he might enjoy Howl by Allen Ginsburg. Most poetry doesn't require a long attention span to enjoy.
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Old 12-11-2008, 10:47 AM   #40
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Hey! Didn't I teach you that?
LOL you just confirmed it i studied Creative Writing last year, an entire damn YEAR in university with a bunch of writers, how do you think that went?? XD
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Old 12-11-2008, 11:05 AM   #41
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And you lived to tell the tale.......!
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Old 12-11-2008, 12:10 PM   #42
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And you lived to tell the tale.......!
Indeed, i did. It was a devastating experience. o_o
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Old 12-11-2008, 12:16 PM   #43
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Ugh, my old roommate was a "poet" and was also working on a "vampire novel." it was stifling sometimes, and I could never say "It sucked" and expect a moment's peace in the house, so I just avoided reading her work altogether.

Not that all the writers I know are like that, but she's always what comes to mind. I have a lot of respect for them now, after years of trying to write I have to admit that I suck at it, and will always suck at it.
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Old 12-11-2008, 12:24 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maromi12d3
Nah as the saying goes ignorance is bliss but I dont know if this really applies to it. I know my limits and thats all I suppose.
No one has limits. You’re just lazy.
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Old 12-11-2008, 01:18 PM   #45
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Books:

The Inheriters - William Golding

Lord of The Flies - William Golding

1984 - George Orwell
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