"Open-mindedness" and victimization

[Godslayer Jillian]

Now, while this rambling was inspired on Tourquoise's attitude on the "I Hate" thread, this is not a direct response or attack to her.
It just made me think of something that happens a lot. I'm sure I have mentioned my views on the hypocrisy of open-mindedness before, but never made a thread about it.
I have thought long and hard about my perspective on the world, my opinions towards human interaction, and so on. For years I have questioned myself, and I still question myself, so that I can have consistency in my repertoire of opinions rather than just stupidly accepting the norm and look the other way when faced with contradictions like most of the world tends to do.
Every time I'm faced with something new or different, I am almost perfectly open to it, because not only am I skeptical about it, but I'm also skeptical on my skepticism. That is what "open-mindedness" perfectly is.

However, I am not always an "open-minded" person in the way the everyday user understands this word, which is a total whoring of your principles for the sake of avoiding conflicts with someone you just can't agree with.
Open-mindedness today, as I think many of you agree, is just a way of saying "shut the fuck up, your opinions don't mean shit as soon as they disagree with mine." How wonderfully repressive. Its usage of words to hide its draconian meaning is of the caliber or Orwell's Ministry of Love, or of America's federalists, or today's 'Freedom House'.
But as open-mindedness is not ever really sought after all, it is not surprising that people don't think of themselves as close-minded when they themselves reject - not just disagree but fully reject - something. This is because the appeal to open-mindedness is just used as a device for self-victimization.
Christians say the world is bigoted against them because they cannot set up a manger in a public space. Oh but it's not bigotry that a Texas representative must believe in one supreme god to be in office.
Conservatives see the media as close-minded because it has a 'liberal bias', but there's no problem with their media to under portray liberal ideas.
Pseudo-feminists love saying "I'm a woman hear me roar" and claim men to be sexist pigs, but they are 'only looking' after women when rejecting same-sex restrooms.
Hell, even bullshit 'alternative' teens feel the world doesn't understand them but oh how they're quick to judge fellow teenagers that don't shop at their stores.

As soon as it doesn't affect them, or affects them negatively, people throw away the open-mindedness card, because they can't be the close-minded ones - there must be something inherently wrong with the premise they reject.

[KontanKarite]

I think the crux of that is understanding and many wont understand right away while many others understand not and appeal on emotional terms.

[TurquoiseXx]

Hey Jillian, I'm going to respond although you probably weren't expecting me to I have to admit that you do bring up a great point.

I try to be as open-minded as possible but there are just some things I can't see past. Is it because I think it's wrong or because it is wrong? I don't really know. Sometimes it is difficult to differentiate when something seems out of the norm for me.

Although I'm young (22), I'm old fashioned in a sense. It took me a long time to get where I am now. If you knew me 5-6 years ago, you would have thought I was the biggest biatch around. I didn't respect peoples opinions and I used to think that everyone who wasn't like me was lame. I realized it wasn't the right attitude to have so I eventually changed little by little. I believe that life is a learning process, and I have a long way to go. I might not agree with what someone says today, but in the future, I might be able to understand where that person was coming from.

I hope that makes sense.

[TurquoiseXx]

Sorry for double-posting but it's too late to edit my post. I just wanted to say that you hit the nail on the head Kontan. That's pretty much what it boils down to.

[JCC]

The problem here is that people can't live up to their own idealized versions of themselves. They describe themselves as open-minded because they know that's the sort of thing that impresses but when applied to their actual mindset, it's a redundant description. Open-mindedness is a dying trait, and it never even really got the chance to surface.

[Delkaetre]

I try to be open minded, I don't claim that I *am*, only that I try to be.
I enjoy questioning, sometimes, though it can get damn uncomfortable when you hold all your personal views under a lamp and really start to question the validity of all your closely held beliefs.

I don't mind the beliefs of others, and will generally try to avoid conflict. I don't like fights. But if someone's belief seems detrimental to others and they're acting upon that belief, I will challenge them on it.

[Duane]

I'll admit, when it comes to certain things, I'm not open-minded. Not to things like the existence God/creationism, life after death, Star crossed lovers type stuff((Romeo and Juliet is awesome, but I don't believe that stuff really actually happens.)), and a few other things. In fact, I believe myself to be very close-minded.

[Apathy's_Child]

"Open-minded" is a word often used by people who don't know enough about the topic to argue their corner. These are the same peple who say "now, I didn't disrespect your point of view, so why are you disrespecting mine?" Political correctness would like to forbid us from saying, "because yours is fucking stupid, irrational and based largely on anecdotes from your inbred cousin". Say it anyway, it doesn't hurt them. Leaving a dumbass unrebuked is like emptying toxic waste into the river of a Third World village.

[faye_falling]

I think that people tend to equate open-mindedness with tolerance. I'd much rather just be tolerant of someone else's ideas than to be completely unbiased and impartial in order to be able to accept them as my own. Truly being "open-mided", I think, leads to not having an opinion. I guess I'm close-minded, too, but I am relatively tolerant. Do what you want, but don't try to force me to believe what you do.

[HumanePain]

It is extremely difficult to grow up "open-minded" because we are imprinted with the local culture when we are young. We grow up exposed to closed minded traditions and opinions.

Humanity is fortunate that youth rebels against the previous generation, because this allows an opportunity for the race to ingest new ideas and culture.

A southern U.S. family may be traditionally bigoted, and yet when they move to another state, and the young son rebels against the family mores and takes an African American girlfriend, he is open-minded in his rebellion against his parent's tradition; humanity is able to expand and grow beyond the previous generaton's closed minded limits.

Thank goodness for young people.

[MitsyMayhem]

Originally Posted by HumanePain

It is extremely difficult to grow up "open-minded" because we are imprinted with the local culture when we are young. We grow up exposed to closed minded traditions and opinions.

Humanity is fortunate that youth rebels against the previous generation, because this allows an opportunity for the race to ingest new ideas and culture.

A southern U.S. family may be traditionally bigoted, and yet when they move to another state, and the young son rebels against the family mores and takes an African American girlfriend, he is open-minded in his rebellion against his parent's tradition; humanity is able to expand and grow beyond the previous generaton's closed minded limits.

Thank goodness for young people.

Unless you're lucky, like I was.
My dad has never made a racist comment, a sexist comment, or a mean comment based on anyone's sexuality.
He's understanding and intelligent and spend most of his time reading books about society. Neither has he hammered religion into my head. He's always left it up for me too choose, even as a small child. He's a Christian, but he's never made us go to church.
I think he's one of the few respectable human beings.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by faye_falling

Truly being "open-mided", I think, leads to not having an opinion.

I don't think it does. By being open to everything, you simply evaluate everything from an equal point of skepticism. There will still be valid reasons for not accepting certain things, because you're being skeptical but perfectly open for people to convince you of something. More than openness it would be recessiveness, in which you just take anything they tell you.

[Mr.Lucifer]

Ah my Jillian, it is time to awaken as your true form, Belial.

[Bete Noire]

Originally Posted by Mr.Lucifer

Ah my Jillian, it is time to awaken as your true form, Belial.

You know I said precisely the same thing to my manhood the other day.

[Catch]

People have different ideals of right and wrong. There is the old saying, "It will work out in the end." However, often people have to take a stand to believe in what they believe in or it goes away and people get hurt. That is why there is such a dramatic shift in open-mindedness and victimization.

While most people are open to learn about other people, they want to make sure they can still do the things they enjoy. People will also side with those who are willing to listen to them, as opposed to others who are close-minded and not willing to except suggestion because they already have plans of their own.

This contridiction in social behavior of wanting peace but fearing oppression causes a lot of confusion.

[faye_falling]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

I don't think it does. By being open to everything, you simply evaluate everything from an equal point of skepticism. There will still be valid reasons for not accepting certain things, because you're being skeptical but perfectly open for people to convince you of something. More than openness it would be recessiveness, in which you just take anything they tell you.

I suppose that open-mindedness isn't about not having an opinion but being receptive to new views. In real world practice, though, people use open-mindedness as an excuse to remain unbiased and not take sides. In theory, you can have many strong opinions and still be open, but in society all too often people use it as a cop out to not have an opinion.

I think somebody already said something along those lines. Oh well, I guess I'm open-minded to ideas of open-mindedness. Baha.

[Sir Canvas Corpsey]

I have no delusions of myself being truly open minded. It reminds me of the rule of the world me and my friends decided upon, say whatever you like and be a hypocrite, it's all good as long as you acknowledge that you are a hypocrite.

[Unimatrix 00]

I try as hard as I can to be "open-minded". But no matter how hard one tries, it is impossible to be completely so.

Hello, Sir Canvas Corpsey!

[Godslayer Jillian]

I don't get it. Why are you guys saying that being open-minded is hard or undesirable? It's not hard, and it's desirable.

[KontanKarite]

Well man, when you see people saying ********** are criminals and monsters, what do you expect?

Jesus that thread was bothering me.

[Godslayer Jillian]

It still bothers me. Again, so much for open-mindedness.
But I believe many people here don't understand this thread.
I never said it's bullshit to be open-minded; I even proudly say I consider myself very open-minded.
What is bullshit is the mongrel usage of the word "open-mindedness" as a rhetorical victimization of what one is concerned rather than genuinely trying to be open-minded.

[Joker_in_the_Pack]

This is going to be another "It's no big deal" thread, I'm warning you now. Anyways, I've noticed that a lot. Whenever I make fun of something someone cares about, they come back with, "you're just being closed minded" which drives me absolutely fucking berserk because I was open minded enough to look at the idea, think about it, analyze it, find its flaws, and then think of a well worded zinger at it's expense. If I was closed minded, I would have simply ignored it without knowing anything. You hit the nail on the head Godslayer, people DO use it as defense mechanism of victimization when their ideas are contradicted.
It's up there in annoyances with people's common retort to being proven wrong or being contradicted, "Well, that's your opinion." That drives me nuts, as if to say that someone's opinion can't be better than another persons. People fail to realize opinions can be fucking WRONG. For example, people who go around claiming George W. Bush is a good president. That's their opinion, and for the most part, it's fucking wrong, isn't it?

Alright, I'll stop thread jacking, but in short, you're dead right Godslayer Jillian, and yes, it is amazingly annoying.

[Mir]

I don't get it. To me, being open minded is just this;

You have held opinions and beliefs (some for as long as you can remember), and are willing to accept, and appropriate another viewpoint in the face of a logical and reasoned argument.

I could be wrong. Then again, I'm wrong all the time so that doesn't really bother me.

[Tam Li Hua]

I think you raise some good points here. [Yeah, I'm late to the convo. :P]

It makes me wonder if anyone is truly 'open-minded'. Can someone accept something even if they consider it 'weird' or 'unusual', and still be considered open-minded? Can someone accept the preferences of another, yet not want that thing for themselves, and still be considered open-minded?

And is there such a thing as having too much open-mindedness?

Just some questions that came to my mind while reading your post, Jillian.