Misogyny and gaming.

[Grumpy old fart '83]

What games are misogynistic and which are not?

[Acharis]

This could become a long sprawling shitfight of a topic, and any answers would be arguable. It covers quite a scope.

I'm just going to pick the topic of sexualisation (it was a big one for games like Bayonetta) and throw a semi-related link at it. ie. Empowered vs Objectified

[BourbonBoy]

Actually, there was a recent study that was published and found no correlation between sexism and gaming. Nice try though.

http://techraptor.net/content/study-...-sexism-gaming

http://www.forbes.com/sites/olliebar...ist-attitudes/

http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/abs...yber.2014.0492

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite...9#.VTJ_QJNs-Yc

[Grumpy old fart '83]

Originally Posted by BourbonBoy

Actually, there was a recent study that was published and found no correlation between sexism and gaming. Nice try though.

http://techraptor.net/content/study-...-sexism-gaming

http://www.forbes.com/sites/olliebar...ist-attitudes/

http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/abs...yber.2014.0492

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite...9#.VTJ_QJNs-Yc

I was not trying to pick a fight. I just wanted to get everyone's thoughts on the subject.

[Acharis]

Personally I can say I've experienced both a lot of good people *and* a lot of sexism/misogyny while gaming.

[Allistrazsa]

I'm jumping late on the subject, but here's my opinion: I don't think I've seen a game that takes itself seriously and is misogynistic. Sexualised female characters? Yep. But I wouldn't call them misogynistic. Also, there are just as many, if not even more, overly masculinised male characters and I'm not bothered by that either.
So, maybe I've been lucky and didn't stumble upon misogynistic games. : )

[Saya]

Originally Posted by BourbonBoy

Actually, there was a recent study that was published and found no correlation between sexism and gaming. Nice try though.

http://techraptor.net/content/study-...-sexism-gaming

http://www.forbes.com/sites/olliebar...ist-attitudes/

http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/abs...yber.2014.0492

http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite...9#.VTJ_QJNs-Yc

Duuuuuuuuuuude.

The study was done in Germany, a country which often censors video games. It's not the same as a study in America. They also did not ask gamers what games they play, just how often they play games. So no, if you play Super Mario World a lot, it's probably not going to make you magically sexist. Even the authors of the study stated that further study is needed to see if certain games such as Dead or Alive cultivate sexism.

http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/WaiYe...me_players.php

But yeah, definitely, there is a lot of sexism both in the gaming industry and video games themselves.

[Acharis]

Yup. I was trying to avoid this being a GG thread, but take one look at it.

[Saya]

Yuuuuuuup.

And it sucks because if you want video games to be taken seriously as a media, you have to deal with critique. Books are examined, movies are examined, it's a thing that makes these mediums the better for it. I've already heard that the whole GG thing is causing academics who do study video games to lose funding.

[Acharis]

Um.. so much for the future of video game journalism then?

I actually feel quite tired with it all. I've copped game harassment before, so I can't imagine what it'd be like to be the women in the public eye dealing with it 24/7 or receiving death threats.

[Class-Punk]

I have a libertarian stance towards art. If the video game developers don't have enough sexism and violence for their particular narrative, then the games need more. I can hardly police my own life, let alone the imaginations of billions of people out of some false sense of social justice.

[$haDe]

This is actually a really dodgy topic to really dig in for me, mostly because of how these scantily clad female characters are actually fighting on equal-terms with male characters (Mortal Kombat and Dead or Alive, for example) or even purposely dressed themselves that way as a mean to empower their sexuality (Bayonetta, for example).


What I'm saying is, the narration is the problem in videogames. (Unless the developers go out of their way to code more than one female characters to perform less efficient than their male counterparts) and that just seems more like the creative writing parts and not really videogames as a whole that is being misogynistic

---------------------------

Added: Unless we're talking about the audiences and consumers in the gaming industry as well, in which case, yes. This industry is severely misogynistic.


I'm still really mad about the developers of Assassin's Creed, using a small control group to decide that they're not making a female assassin in the main line-ups, THEN tried to scuttle the feedback with "it's much harder to model female anatomy"

*queue bouncing boobs joke*

[Saya]

It's funny because fighting games probably have more female characters than any kind of genre, it's just some take the sexualization waaaay too far. I haven't played the last few Tekken games but I remember they were usually really good and balanced, a few cheesecake characters but a lot of just cool looking characters. Dead or Alive is what it is but increasingly isn't the niche but the norm. A recent DoA tornament banned skimpy costumes though because they want the game taken more seriously as a good fighting game rather than eroge, so I think we're seeing some backlash at least.

I used to really love Soul Calibur but kinda had to drop it after I realized as my favourite characters aged they got implants and shorter skirts.

[Acharis]

I don't really like Bayonetta. I get what they're going for and am not going to argue about it, it simply rubs me up the wrong way.

[Saya]

I think it's because "it's empowering to the character" is used too often. Like, for every single female character ever. The character is not an autonomous person who has likes and dislikes, she is a fictional person who has a creator who decided she should be naked a lot.

I see it a lot in comics too, like with Emma Frost. Sure, she's a "sexual" person (I use quotations marks because MOST PEOPLE ARE that's not a unique character trait) but she's also mega rich and supposed to be fashion forward, and the best she can come up with is a tacky 20 dollar corset and panties? Some fans will argue with you til they're blue in the face that that is risque high fashion, but really it just reveals that they don't know a whole lot about fashion, they just want a skimpy Emma Frost.

[Acharis]

Yeah, it does seem a bit of a handwave.

I'm noticing that I'm so exhausted and worn down that I'm just keeping to the group I play with and whenever dealing with randoms I let them call me 'he'. I'll still rant sometimes as to why does it have to be such a thing to make women be invisible/pretend to be men (consequences basically force this), and I will open up if I sus that someone else is a girl.

But by and large it's getting so I feel absolutely drained and can't be bothered with the misgendering and being assumed to be a man. I've stopped trying to make myself more visible to other women or connect with them on public chat. I just give up if it means I'm not going to deal with randoms fixating on me, assuming I'm pretending or judging my performance more harshly.

Seems necessary in order to enjoy games.

[$haDe]

Originally Posted by Saya

I think it's because "it's empowering to the character" is used too often. Like, for every single female character ever. The character is not an autonomous person who has likes and dislikes, she is a fictional person who has a creator who decided she should be naked a lot.

This is why it's a very dodgy topic


The game maybe action-packed and the narration completely devoid of mentioning the fact that she's naked a lot, but at the same time, the comedic aspects of it makes you wonder if this is intentional as a parody to that misogyny itself

...or are they really just making her naked simply because.

Originally Posted by Saya

I see it a lot in comics too, like with Emma Frost. Sure, she's a "sexual" person (I use quotations marks because MOST PEOPLE ARE that's not a unique character trait) but she's also mega rich and supposed to be fashion forward, and the best she can come up with is a tacky 20 dollar corset and panties? Some fans will argue with you til they're blue in the face that that is risque high fashion, but really it just reveals that they don't know a whole lot about fashion, they just want a skimpy Emma Frost.

I personally really like her character but the way they visualized her clothing is just inexcusable

[Saya]

Originally Posted by Acharis

Yeah, it does seem a bit of a handwave.

I'm noticing that I'm so exhausted and worn down that I'm just keeping to the group I play with and whenever dealing with randoms I let them call me 'he'. I'll still rant sometimes as to why does it have to be such a thing to make women be invisible/pretend to be men (consequences basically force this), and I will open up if I sus that someone else is a girl.

But by and large it's getting so I feel absolutely drained and can't be bothered with the misgendering and being assumed to be a man. I've stopped trying to make myself more visible to other women or connect with them on public chat. I just give up if it means I'm not going to deal with randoms fixating on me, assuming I'm pretending or judging my performance more harshly.

Seems necessary in order to enjoy games.

What games do you play? It reminds me of when I used to play WoW; I was one of few guild members who used a female avatar, but then one day it came out that the guild was actually mostly female. We were all like "I thought I was the only one!" Nowadays I usually stick with LGBT guilds if it's an option.

[Acharis]

Also WoW. I'm lucky that I've got a friendly chilled out guild with a few other women, but there are some real dickheads in the community. Harassment etc

[KamNess]

lol there was a red versus blue about the internet and it had some guys fantasising about her lips, btw, are they actually real or synthetic? her lips i mean