Tires of the US?

Rorschach Twin · 12-23-2007, 05:50 PM

Then secede.

http://story.malaysiasun.com/index.p...d/311000/cs/1/

DepthsofSpace · 12-23-2007, 08:20 PM

I've been so happy about this. I want to join them. Given that they are going to embrace minarchist principals.

Drake Dun · 12-24-2007, 04:58 AM

Native Americans have got to be the only group of people who are politically situationed so as to have a shot at pulling something like this off. Maybe they can blaze a trail for the rest of us.

A mechanism for orderly secession should be one of the most basic features of any government - especially one heading up a "free country".

Drake

ugh... · 12-24-2007, 08:54 AM

I think it's a good idea for them to seccede. I mean its only fair after all the bull sh*t that the US did to them.

Kanedawg · 12-24-2007, 10:20 AM

Aliens vs. Predator opens on Christmas, and I smile at the commercials with the thought that it seems like our upcoming "election." There is reason for all Americans to secede from this land of the free, where we enjoy the highest incarceration rate of any nation on earth.

lostintranslation · 12-24-2007, 10:28 AM

I'm with ugh... on this. The Native Americans got screwed over by the immigrants who now call themselves Americans. They deserve some land of their own, well, they deserve the whole country, but seeing as that probably won't happen, they deserve at least their own state.

Kanedawg · 12-24-2007, 10:52 AM

Hey. Native Americans got screwed over by the ancestors of many who now call ourselves Americans. In my own ancestry, largely Irish, I had forebears who came here to become expendable labor in the swamps of Florida; building railroads alongside Chinese, and in copper mines in Colorado. I am also German and Scotts and it's realistic that I probably have some less noble ancestors, too. Then there's the fact that people were brought here as slaves, which I in no way appreciate or support.

lostintranslation · 12-24-2007, 10:57 AM

I am not saying that there are other cultures which didn't get screwed over in the US, but I'm saying that I'm tired of these "Americans" who get angry with the amount of imigrants and all this nonsense, when really the only true "americans" are the native americans. The "white man" came, stole land from the natives, killed, *****, enslaved their people, then as time went by, stripped them of their land and sent them of to live in settlements so the other white folk could move in without "heathens" to deal with. The whole thing is ridiculous if you ask me. But, just about every race has been screwed over, so everyone is entitled to something.

Kanedawg · 12-24-2007, 11:13 AM

You are right of course. No argument. I think I was mostly stipulating that I personally didn't distribute small pox infected blankets and shoot the food supply of the plains tribes; bison, from a moving train for sport until they had almost none of their food supply remaining, and on and on and on. If it was up to me and I personally had arrived on this continent I would have done things quite a bit differently, like maybe asking the people if they'd mind if we hung out. Weird how this site will censor the word ****, huh? El oh well!

Wormboy · 12-24-2007, 11:17 AM

Several hundred years ago. Get over it people. Americans did that several hundred years ago. They want to secede? Fine, get some land not in the middle of OUR fucking country and by all means go. Yes, OUR country. Several hundred years ago we took the land. Oh well. None of you bitch about how the Anglo-Saxtons took it from the Celts/druids. None of you bitch about the Spaniards and how they stole it from the Aztecs. All I hear is the fucking native americans this native americans that. I'm done with it. I don't care what happened several hundred years ago. If they want to live their primitive little cultures, then fine. Get some land and go. For the record my definition of primitive is people who hunt their food with a spear and live in tents. Weren't they fighting about that? Not being able to hunt buffalo or something? Eat cows, almost the same...

Kanedawg · 12-24-2007, 11:29 AM

Hey, Wormboy. On that note, how about those "WMD" in Iraq? And the 70 billion more dollars that just got flushed from our economy? I bring that up only because it seems like a similar general concept to me as the aforementioned Native Americans. Not that I don't feel some of what you're saying. I was among the hundreds of thousands of protesters who swelled the streets prior to this "war on terrorism" even though almost all Saudis levelled the World Trade Center, not Iraqis. Now some former rabid war supporters seem to be in agreement with my earlier position. Oh well. Starting a war is easy as pie. Ending it is not.

lostintranslation · 12-24-2007, 12:06 PM

Wormboy, who says I don't argue over what happened to the Aztecs, the Calts and the Druids, and all the other cultures and races which have been treated unfairly? This thread is about the native americans, thus I am arguing about the native americans. If there was a thread about the Aztecs, or the Celts, or the million other races, I'm sure I'd argue for them too. Just because it happened before I was born, doesn't mean I'm not allowed to have an opinion on it, be educated about it, and argue on their behalf. I think the world is one screwed up place, and I think that many cultures deserve some kind of retribution for what happened to their people. Unfortunately, how many Aztecs do you know? Or druids? Most of them died out to the injustices of others. My apologies, wormboy, if I do not see the death of an entire culture as something as insignificant as you do. It's just isn't how I am.

Kanedawg · 12-24-2007, 12:11 PM

You are passionate, lostintranslation. And how about Iraq? I know this is about Native Americans! :^)

lostintranslation · 12-24-2007, 12:20 PM

Yes, I am very passionate. My opinions on Iraq are this: we don't belong there, and we are really doing nothing but harming people inbeing there. I have a friend who is a marine, and was in Iraq, and now suffers from PTSD because of what happened to him while he was in Iraq. He didn't deserve that. He can't even see his one year old son because he has to stay in a marine base for psych help. Is that fair? No. It's happened to millions of soldiers. While Saddam needed to be taken out of power, he needed to be taken out of power and replaced. Now Iraq is a mess, and for what? So the US could get oil cheaper. Great work everyone.

Kanedawg · 12-24-2007, 12:30 PM

Yes. My condolences to your friend. I was in Marine Corps boot camp many moons ago but did not "process," you might say.

I opposed this war while many people I knew became rabid armchair generals. Sick, sad and pathetic. I think the worst are ex-military people who have never been in a war. Boy they were all for it!

lostintranslation · 12-24-2007, 12:34 PM

I had to do a presentation on war for my morality class, and I shared an interview I did with my friend the marine, and so many people who were for war instantly changed their minds. It's easy to say you're for something when you're seeing it at a distance, but when you or someone you know gets involved, it's a whole other story.

Kanedawg · 12-24-2007, 12:41 PM

My first thought when the war was coming up, as a very dedicated dad, was what would happen to kids.

Before I digress, thank you and congrats for opening some minds with your presentation.

I think it is really largely instinctive. Different camps can provide all sorts of "data" about the "need for war" and whatever, but my very strong instinct about the current regime in the whitehouse is that they are used car salespeople from hell, and all further evaluations of their positions and claims and statements are thus tainted. The best and most noble and justified of wars is only so good.

clockworkcoffin · 12-24-2007, 01:44 PM

native americans knew our ancestors got here. it may not be right and it may not be fair, but no amount of bitching and moaning is gonna change reality.

and while i do hold the opinion that all people of european descent belong in europe, i don't feel guilty for being a white american.

Edward Strange · 12-25-2007, 12:26 AM

On the subject of celts and similar people being oppressed by the dastardly anglo-saxons, there are rumblings of independence from all corners of the United Kingdom. Scotland, Wales, not so much Northern Ireland anymore and Cornwall of all places.
I could see at least one of those becoming independent in my lifetime.

Whether that's good or not is a different matter, as a dastardly Englishman I rather enjoy my nation's dominion over our little island realm. ><

Beneath the Shadows · 12-25-2007, 01:26 AM

I continously find it ironic that Native Americans of all tribes claims that Europeans came and suppressed them when there is evidence, both archaeological and from genetic testing, that indicate that Europeans migrated to the Americas at about the same time as the Asians did. Which means that some Native American tribes are of European decent. (Eastern half of North America.)

It's like complaining about who your white ancestors were supressed by whites.

At least some Native Americans are worried about petty issued of the has-been. If it wasn't so, my wife would never have married me. (She's part Navajo.)

Beneath the Shadows · 12-25-2007, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beneath the Shadows

At least some Native Americans are worried about petty issued of the has-been.

I meant they aren't worried.

CptSternn · 12-27-2007, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edward Strange

On the subject of celts and similar people being oppressed by the dastardly anglo-saxons, there are rumblings of independence from all corners of the United Kingdom. Scotland, Wales, not so much Northern Ireland anymore and Cornwall of all places.
I could see at least one of those becoming independent in my lifetime.

Whether that's good or not is a different matter, as a dastardly Englishman I rather enjoy my nation's dominion over our little island realm. ><

Thats because we have won in N. Ireland. They are now letting the Irish call the shots, organise the police, the schools, the curriculum, and thats all in the first year. In fact, there are already cross border school zones going up, which fall under Irish governing rules as well.

Tis a matter of time now before we start the push for the referendum to vote the North free of brit rule. Once all the state agencies, schools, social welfare, etc have been assimilated that is.

Delkaetre · 12-27-2007, 06:57 AM

No, you really haven't 'won' Northern Ireland.
You have a large degree of control. But that control doesn't belong to the South, it belongs to the various factions in the North, many of whom align with the South. It also, to a pretty serious extent, still belongs to England- England still has full legislative and executive power over Northern Ireland.

Methadrine · 12-27-2007, 07:26 AM

Sorry to go a bit offtopic, but have to ask:

The bloody fighting etc up in N. Ireland have stopped atleast, right? Or atleast mellowed out...?

Delkaetre · 12-27-2007, 02:18 PM

We aren't blowing each other up any more, no.
There's still graffitti, occasional paramilitary beatings, and a lot of nasty sniping, and there's a fair few places you don't go during Parade Season (around the 12th of July), but it's mostly calm.
No more culvert bombs, home made rocket launchers, serious kneecappings a few times in a month, etc. And we're not blowing up bits of England any more either.