What's wrong with Capitalism? - Page 20

JCC · 06-30-2010, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jochon

I really don't see the difference, maybe you formulated it better than me.

You can't see the difference between not producing inessential items and banning certain items of clothing? If companies suddenly started using an alternative fibre to cotton, does this mean that cotton is banned and people will be arrested for wearing it, like you implied a Marxist state would do to people wearing goth clothing? Of course there's a difference.

Jochon · 06-30-2010, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCC

You can't see the difference between not producing inessential items and banning certain items of clothing? If companies suddenly started using an alternative fibre to cotton, does this mean that cotton is banned and people will be arrested for wearing it, like you implied a Marxist state would do to people wearing goth clothing? Of course there's a difference.

There is no such thing as a Marxist state, and I were talking about Communisme for the record.

JCC · 06-30-2010, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jochon

There is no such thing as a Marxist state, and I were talking about Communisme for the record.

There is no state in communism. Marxism is about the transition to communism, and for that to happen there must be a Marxist state. Don't discuss Marxism and communism if you don't know what they are.

Jochon · 06-30-2010, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCC

There is no state in communism. Marxism is about the transition to communism, and for that to happen there must be a Marxist state. Don't discuss Marxism and communism if you don't know what they are.

I know what they are, and Marxism doesn't work for a society, especially if religion is out of the question.

Communism is very different from Marxism although they both share an ideology.

But I can see that you are not a very pleasent person to discuss with, either because you're a hidden troll, or because you're simply an asshole. Pardon my language.

Either way, I bid you good day.

Still Jack · 06-30-2010, 03:26 PM

Don't even try debating a political matter with JCC, not only will you lose badly, you'll also end up with all your limbs amputated at the bottom of a sewage farm. Metaphorically speaking of course...

Jochon · 06-30-2010, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Still Jack

Don't even try debating a political matter with JCC, not only will you lose badly, you'll also end up with all your limbs amputated at the bottom of a sewage farm. Metaphorically speaking of course...

I'm not debating anymore with him, no.

He's still wrong, though.

By the way, that jacket you have in your picture, that wouldn't happen to be a long coat would it?

Alan · 06-30-2010, 04:42 PM

Jochon, why would you want to be a goth when they just want to kill themselves and murder their high school classmates?

You know, because clichés are valid and 'there for a reason'.

JCC · 07-01-2010, 02:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jochon

Communism is very different from Marxism although they both share an ideology.

But I can see that you are not a very pleasent person to discuss with, either because you're a hidden troll, or because you're simply an asshole. Pardon my language.

What do you think communism and Marxism are, then? And why am I an asshole? You shouldn't piggyback other people's points and you shouldn't discuss things that you don't understand, these suggestions don't make me an asshole.

Jochon · 07-01-2010, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan

Jochon, why would you want to be a goth when they just want to kill themselves and murder their high school classmates?

You know, because clichés are valid and 'there for a reason'.

A clichè is not a stereotype.

Jochon · 07-01-2010, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCC

What do you think communism and Marxism are, then? And why am I an asshole? You shouldn't piggyback other people's points and you shouldn't discuss things that you don't understand, these suggestions don't make me an asshole.

Marxism is a dream, a flawed failure of a dream.

Communism is the attempt to make that dream come true, but because you cannot expect a normal person to educate themselves for several years to become a doctor and get payed the same as a dishwasher without even getting any social credit for it, without being bound to a religion.

Therefore they must be forced into these positions, or give up the dream of a 100% equal society.

An stop accusing me of "piggy backing", that's what's making you an asshole.

I found strong similarities in what we both said, and now I regret ever engaging in this discussion.

In my opinion you are nothing but an overly hostile ignorant, I'm ashamed I were about to affiliate myself with you and your opinions.

Enjoy the rest of your life, although I bet it will be a lonely one.

Sincere hatred, Joachim.

JCC · 07-01-2010, 03:03 AM

Hahaha, you're fucking nuts.

Alan · 07-01-2010, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jochon

A clichè is not a stereotype.

I see what your mistake is; or at least one among many.
When I said clichés I meant political clichés. I mean the kind of bullshit that is absolutely untrue but gets repeated so much that idiots cannot form an actual thought-out opinion but rather repeat those 'clichés' like mantras.
Your bullshit about communism is just as true as the bullshit Republicans say about how conservatism means smaller government and more freedom.
A political cliché is not true. Not only was your opinion of "clichés exist for a reason" completely stupid, but it takes a whole new level of stupidity when you're talking about political clichés: they're always wrong.

And to prove that to you, here's something you said:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jochon

you cannot expect a normal person to educate themselves for several years to become a doctor and get payed the same as a dishwasher without even getting any social credit for it

That wasn't true even in the Soviet Union. So where exactly do you get this bullshit when it's neither part of the theory you admit to know nothing about, nor part of the real world?

donmara · 07-08-2010, 01:59 PM

Here´s a legitimate question.

Does communism allow commerce ?

Razeal18 · 07-08-2010, 04:27 PM

I was under the impression it doesn't, but ask JCC for confirmation.

Alan · 07-08-2010, 04:41 PM

Depends on which communism.

LaBelleDameSansMerci · 07-10-2010, 02:53 PM

Didn't Lenin allow trade for things produced in excess of one's quota?

I think the problem with the "Why should I be a doctor when I make the same as a dishwasher?" question that people keep asking is that they forget the enjoyment aspect. Why does someone want to be a doctor? Ideally, it's because they like to solve problems, interact with people, and help them have better lives (at least in my opinion...).
Why do I want to go through rigourous art training to learn how to make a fucking good, technically and compositionally exceptional painting that won't sell readily even though I worked long and hard on and put my soul into when I could make things like Rothko or Warhol or Hirst or something that I can bullshit people into buying for a lot of money? Because that's what I want to do in life.
Those who are not motivated to make something more of themselves, even if they don't get any more monetary reward for it, will become dishwashers. Those who want to do something they enjoy will become doctors (or whatever profession they want to be).

Razeal18 · 07-17-2010, 08:59 AM

Sounds like a valid point. but on the flip side are there enough people who legitimatly know what will make them happy, without money being a factor?

KontanKarite · 07-17-2010, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCC

But is is a matter of private enterprise, because niche interests exist only when there is a market for them that can sustain the industry; if the government takes control of industry then it's incredibly unlikely that it will cater to niche interests like goth clothing, which was part of the question about what happens to luxury items in a Marxist state. You would be allowed to wear it, yes, but where will it be produced for you to do so?

Well, that goes into a whole other direction of what we deem to be self expression. I wasn't implying anything about goth in the least.

Those that desire to express themselves will find a way. Art and expression doesn't cleave to industry.

Simply put, I wasn't talking about luxury items. I think my point has been missed.

Besides... fuck luxury items.

Jochon · 07-18-2010, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

Well, that goes into a whole other direction of what we deem to be self expression. I wasn't implying anything about goth in the least.

Those that desire to express themselves will find a way. Art and expression doesn't cleave to industry.

Simply put, I wasn't talking about luxury items. I think my point has been missed.

Besides... fuck luxury items.

OK, I've been gone for a while now and accidentally stumbled upon this thread again (I swore to a number of Gods that I wouldn't so I guess I'm screwed) and I noticed that you wrote "fuck luxury items"..

Excuse me but aren't you using a computer?

Hypocrite...

Alan · 07-18-2010, 10:30 AM

How is a computer a luxury item?
A luxury item is one whose price increases heavily without really improving its use. A luxury item is a status symbol; not a soundly economic useful item.

He's not a hypocrite; you just don't know what you're talking about.