New to gothic fashion? Here's some advice.

[Minyaliel]

Alright... I've seen these threads popping up all over the board since I joined up, and since I'm getting bored of giving the same answers all the time, here's some well- meant advice for any babybat out there. Please note that this reflects my own opinions on the matter, and that others might have differing views on the matter.

How to attain the highest state of "gothness" in the fashion sense

1: Clothes and shoes

Alright, first you've got to learn one word: DIY. DIY means "Do It Yourself". You can either choose to buy your clothes somewhere on the Internet or in some shop near you, if you've got the money for it. If you're a poor student like me, however, DIY's the word. Got any old clothes you don't like? Modify them. Cut off the sleeves or whatever, sew on some cool stuff you just found in your grandmother's drawer or whatever strikes your fancy. If you've got a really great idea, be sure to draw it while you still remember it. I once bought an old dress at the Salvation Army's with a grand plan about what to do with it, which I didn't put onto a sheet of paper and now I'm stuck with an ugly dress in my wardrobe and the need to find out what the heck I wanted to do with it.

As to style, just wear whatever you please, and no, it doesn't need to be black; if you feel like wearing an all pink outfit one day that will not make you less "goth". Of course there have evolved some styles that many goths tend to wear, like the victorian style or the cyber style, but, seeing that what we really try to become when "going goth" is ourselves, it would be ridiculous to say that you can't make your own style without looking at "types of goth" lists (these tend to be ridiculous anyway).

All this also applies to shoes. As long as your shoes match your outfit and style and you can walk in them you shouldn't have any problems. Personally, I usually buy my shoes at totally ordinary shoe shops.

Oh, and you know, there's no need to partake in the competition of "who can get away with as little clothing as possible in order to show more naked flesh". This is mainly meant as a piece of advice for the girls, since the gents do not seem to care much about this absurd (and cold- inducing) activity.

Make- up

In general, do whatever you damn well please. But please... please don't do meaningless squigglies all over your pretty cheeks and faces or apply snow white foundation on a sun- tanned face. You'll look ridiculous, pretty much like a mime, believe me. Also, black lipstick is not needed if you're not absolutely convinced that it suits you. If you wish to be pale, there's a quite simple way of doing it: stay out of the sun, use sunscreen 365 days a year and use a foundation a little (1- max. 3 shades) lighter than your natural skin tone. If you, like myself, are so unfortunate that you can't find any of the kind, you can again DIY: buy the lightest foundation you can find, pour it in a re- sealable container and mix in either white foundation or, if you're really out of luck and can't find anything else, white clown paint. Your face will feel very yucky if you use the latter, and should only be used in an emergency.

After putting foundation onto your face (make sure it's even and well blended in...), take some white power (I use ordinary talkum power, sometimes mixed with the tiniest glitter particles for that luminous effect) and apply it to your face, not with a brush but with a sponge or similar. This should be done _before_ dressing, as you'll else end up looking like a white- stained, black mess. Brush off excess powder with a thick brush intended for that purpose. These you'll find either in your local beauty supply store or you can pick up a soft, round, thick brush at an art store. Preferrably, this brush should be made out of natural hairs, and the best quality you can afford. This applies to all brushes and tools I refer to. Low quality brushes tend to loose the hairs, and there's nothing more annoying than having a small hair stuck on your lips etc.

Now, I usually use two shades of rouge on my cheeks; a somewhat dark one just below my cheek bones and a lighter, more pink coloured one for the line at the cheekbones up to the apples of the cheeks (I imagine this looks better on the girls than the gents). If you wish to have high cheekbones, one trick I learned at the Opera is to have one diagonal line of blush, thick at the end of your face and getting thinner as you come closer to the center of your face. This does require the use of a special brush for this use, which should not be as thick as the powder brush, and more oval.

You will possibly have to draw in your eye brows and (for males, if desired) other facial hair. Use a pencil, either intended for this purpose, or an eyeliner, in whatever shade is closest to your hair colour (if natural colours) or what is closest to your natural hair colour. Using black on naturally pale eyebrows/ whatever will in most cases look horribly silly. Use your common sense.

Whatever you do, beware that you should only emphasize one part of your face, for instance your eyes or your lips, else you will look like an über- painted clown.

This is where I'll have to separate the rest of the make- up advice into gender specifics.

Girls:

There's something alluring about girls with properly applied eyeliner. To emphasize your eyes properly, you should use at least two shades of eyeshadow, mascara and some liquid eyeliner. I know liquid eyeliner can be a mess, and difficult to apply. My solution: go to the art store, buy one of their thinnest brushes (of course made out of soft, natural hair) and use that instead of the applicator that comes with the bottle. It gives much finer and more exact results. These don't really cost much, and you'll not spend hours in front of the mirror trying to fix some make- up disaster. Now, what you choose to do with your eyes pretty much depends on your style. I suggest you find a make- up artist who can show you a good style for both applying eyeshadow and eyeliner, and then goth it up when you get home. This I've done, too, but then I was lucky enough to become friends with the make- up people at an opera production I was in so a lady there'd help me out for free. Anyway, it is really something you should try.

When it comes to lipstick, first line your lips with a lipliner that's approximately the same shade as your lipstick (blend it in, girls). In my opinion, using black lipliner on red lipstick looks absolutely horrible. Avoid at all costs. For an every day make- up, do you even need lipstick? (It sure is much easier without). To make the lipstick a little more lasting, apply, blot, apply, blot and voila - you can drink out of a glass and it won't stain.

Gents:

Careful on the make- up if you're not used to it. Guys wearing eyeliner often look absolutely stunning, but no squigglies, please, and before going out of the door, practise. Guys should probably use pencils, not liquid eyeliner, often pencils look much better, but this is just my opinion. Use eyehadow if you think it suits you, but (at least for white guys) neutral colours like greys look better. Don't look like a badly decorated Christmas tree.

If you've got a beard, fingers off of the lipstick. Rather, emphasize the beard.

Hair and accessoires

In this area, there's nothing to say but: be creative. You don't need to dye your hair black if it doesn't suit you and/ or you don't feel like it. What about pink, red, purple, blue or blonde? As to hair cuts, search the internet for pictures, or just tell your hairdresser to do whatever he wants and sit back for a (usually) pleasant surprise. I suddenly ended up with a short bob when doing this a week ago, and, to my surprise, love it beyond words.

Apart from that, take a look at hair falls and thelike. Always makes for a nice variety.

Accessoires can by DIY'd. This is pretty much like mentioned above: either show what a rich bastard you are by buying online or in some goth shop near you or do DIY. That's pretty much up to yourself and your budget. Oh, and did I mention that your grandparent's attic/ storage space/ whatever is an invaluable place for treasure hunts? This applies to both accessoires, shoes and clothing, among other things. There's nothing more exciting than an old storage place, cellar or attic that hasn't been cleaned up for several decades.


There, I do hope that helped someone. I spent some two hours on this, banishing my boredom of the evening along the way, so everyone's gained on it, I guess.

[Godslayer Jillian]

I'm loving this thread.
On the hairstyle, there's one thing many kids that want to be "gothic" around here do, and becomes highly problematic:

If your hair falls in unnatural quantities, stop dyeing your own hair!! You're basically killing it.

[MotherofMercies]

Second hand shops!!! I can not express my love for them, honestly I have no pride. My mate has bought many cool things from opp shops, such as a nice black velvet vintage coat. Awesome pair of pink retro platforms (that are now mine). I have also got some nice denium skirts, awesome red velevet vintage dressing gown that sadly I grew out of.

Jillian, could you explain to me unnatural quantities?

I think I might have that problem...

[GoGoGadgetBooty]

I can't wear liquid eyeliner. Number one it looks absolutely horrid on me (think raccons). Number two, the moment even the smallest drop of water hits it, it squiggles all over my face so i have to wash all of it off, and then it turns the water in my sink gray and gets on my shirt and its just a big mess. I don't wear much makeup every day. Depending on how my complexion looks that day, I'm up for mascara, blush, and powder foundation. Unless it's a Saturday night, in which case I'll get all glammed up with extremely thin eyeliner on my lash line and above my bottom lashes, super amounts of mascara on eyelashes that have been separated about 12 times, and lip gloss. I've gotten quite good at it too. I've been toying with makeup since I was nine.

[Blindness is Black]

Ay, I'm loving this. Even though I prefer pencil to liquid liner [bad experience, don't make me go into it].

Don't forget the mascara~I'm a whore for mascara. There's something so wonderful about the way my photographs turn out when I use excessive quantities of it.

@MotherofMercies: excessive quantities=more than normal, or, if you run your fingers -or a brush- through your hair, strands fall out.

[deathbecomesme]

Great thread:

For all you guys: Guys if your like me and you do use Finger Nail polish use your best judge ment when picking the color, and practice first before you go out side with it on cause chances are your gonna mess up big time the first time you do put it on. Oh and never buy finger nail polish from Hottopic, then again never buy anything from their. lol

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by MotherofMercies

Jillian, could you explain to me unnatural quantities?

Anyone loses hair. The average male loses 70 hairs per day; I'm not sure about women.
But when you're passing your hands through your hair, if you see strands of hair in your hand, there's a problem.

[deathbecomesme]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Anyone loses hair. The average male loses 70 hairs per day; I'm not sure about women.
But when you're passing your hands through your hair, if you see strands of hair in your hand, there's a problem.

yeah i had that problem a while back when i would die my hair once a week

[Blindness is Black]

Originally Posted by deathbecomesme

yeah i had that problem a while back when i would die my hair once a week

I'm suddenly glad I chose not to dye my hair purple after I dyed it red...

[deathbecomesme]

Originally Posted by Blindness is Black

I'm suddenly glad I chose not to dye my hair purple after I dyed it red...

yeah dying your hair to much can cause hair damage and what not.

[Blindness is Black]

Originally Posted by deathbecomesme

yeah dying your hair to much can cause hair damage and what not.

Indeed....well, my hair is naturally black so I never have to worry about that, but when I want to dye it some odd, unnatural color, i.e. blue, I have to bleach it first, and that's just not fun.

[Cicero]

That's quite a goldmine of advice you've written there, Minyaliel! And it's all sensible, too. I do hope it can reduce the numbers of useless advice threads in this forum...

But I have one more trick to eyeliner: Something I've learned from being made up by numerous makeup artists is that black eyeshadow can double as eyeliner if you use a very flat and wide brush (mine is about 7mm wide and 1mm thick) - slightly dampened if you want a darker line. It can create really thin and delicate lines, perfect for avoiding raccoon eyes at the end of the day. It's also perfect for the 'smokey eyes' look, as it blends beautifully.

[deathbecomesme]

Originally Posted by Blindness is Black

Indeed....well, my hair is naturally black so I never have to worry about that, but when I want to dye it some odd, unnatural color, i.e. blue, I have to bleach it first, and that's just not fun.

yep i know its a pain, i did it the other day had to bleach down to blond then put in a dark sorta purple.

[Cicero]

Bleaching black hair is complete hell! I recently bleached a few streaks in my black hair to blonde to make way for blue, and after six hours of bleaching (and 2 applications) all I'd managed to get were a few extremely damaged streaks of lightish-browny-copper. The first time I washed my hair after that I had clumps of it falling out from the damage - lucky for me though I'd only bleached very small sections of it, so I didn't lose too much.

[Blindness is Black]

Originally Posted by Cicero

That's quite a goldmine of advice you've written there, Minyaliel! And it's all sensible, too. I do hope it can reduce the numbers of useless advice threads in this forum...

But I have one more trick to eyeliner: Something I've learned from being made up by numerous makeup artists is that black eyeshadow can double as eyeliner if you use a very flat and wide brush (mine is about 7mm wide and 1mm thick) - slightly dampened if you want a darker line. It can create really thin and delicate lines, perfect for avoiding raccoon eyes at the end of the day. It's also perfect for the 'smokey eyes' look, as it blends beautifully.

I love that look...I usually interchange between smokey eyes and my other eyeliner-based look:

I'm asian, so I have virtually no eyelids, but this works well for me; it should work for everyone else, too, as long as you have that fold on your eyelid.

I line my eye right along the lashline with black eyeliner [you want the line to be bold, so don't use shadow, it's too soft], then using a bright colored liner, fill in the rest of your eyelid. I usually go with a sage-y green, but I'm planning on going out and getting some red liner this week.




Bleaching is Hell, yes, but it's the only way to get my hair the way I want it, it's so dark. My hair's a reddish-brown right now, though you really can't tell unless I walk under a bright light.

[Miss_Hazie_Lane]

A couple of hints from a makeup artist, lining the inner rim of your eye in white makes it look larger... you can always line the outside in black, do not, under any circumastances wear lipliner darker than your lipstick, you do not look cool, you look like a 70 year old women in a velvet track suit, if you feel uncomfortable with liquid liner, try mac fluid line and a 208 brush it's a god send, if you want cheap makeup... most of the time you're basically screwed, however there are exceptions: Milani eyeshadow, Wet n' wild lipstick, prestige eyeliner, and maybeine mascara are all pretty decent, please never put the following on your skin: Peroxide, st. ives, sea breeze. Use brushes not sponge applucators, ask makeup counter people for help, you don't pay them for it, practice makes perfect... sometimes though you shouldn't wear practice out of the house, a shimmery eyeshdow on your brow bone makes you look better, and for god's sake blend, as to hair I have one thing to say, and one only, Aqua Net

[Heatherzilla]

Invest money in a good conditioning treatment for your hair, it's great if you've wreaked you hair by dyeing it too much and make sure you get your hair trimmed regularly so you don't get split ends. If like me you have hair ADD don't use permanent dye, you will get bored with it and will probably end up bleaching it and bleach is evil.

[Minyaliel]

Originally Posted by Cicero

That's quite a goldmine of advice you've written there, Minyaliel! And it's all sensible, too. I do hope it can reduce the numbers of useless advice threads in this forum...

Thank you! I sure hope so too.

*wonders how on earth I could've forgotten the second- hand shops*

By the way, Cicero, thanks for sharing the eyeliner trick =) Now I won't have to get hysterics when suddenly running out of liquid eyeliner... *laughs*

[Draconysius]

That's a nice bit of advice. I definitely needed help on the white foundation. My biggest problem with it is that it causes my face to break out horribly, though. Well, most of the time I just go without it, but maybe a little pale foundation would work for me?

[Ex_Oh]

Thanks a lot I would definatly made myself horrible if I hadnt read this great advice

[angst-zine]

Great advice on fashion. One extra thought to men though; liquid liner is fine so long as you follow this simple rule: Liquid on the top lid, pencil on the bottom lid. If you get a good waterproof liquid liner it will stay in place beautifully, but be forewarned, with pencils you can screw up and once you do some fixing it will be ok, with liquid you had best practice before you decide to put it on and go out for the night. Nothing worse than screwing up your liquid liner and becoming the giggle of the evening at the club. Cheers!

[honeythorn]

Mistakes with liquid eyeliner can always be corrected with a cotton swab dipped in a little eyemakeup remover ( cheaper than those eyemakeup remover pen things).

I practically LIVE in liquid and cream liner. I use it for upper and lower lids, and my lines are very neat indeed! I have had a ridiculous amount of practice!!

This is a good thread. Some of the people I come across in Birmingham city center on a saturday could do with reading this!!!!

[Minyaliel]

Just one thing I came to think of just now:

If you're dying your hair and suddenly see that your entire bathroom has gotten stained in the process, you should always keep a bottle of nail polish remover handy. It'll help, believe me. It saved me from a disaster just some minutes ago. It also helps remove stains from your skin. *wonders how the new haircolour will look - I've never tried dying it black before*

Oh, and if you're trying out a new haircolour, don't go for permanent colour; rather try one you can wash out later on so that you're certain it won't be a total disaster if it turns out you look horrible with it... especially if the colour is very dark...

[Graveyard.Crow]

Hmm....I have one more hair question. My hair is DEFENETLY falling out and it is all my fault. I had a mohawk recently that I had to cut off since my hair was completely fried, but the new grown hair still falls. Not as much but it still does. So I have a question. Have I permenantly damaged my roots or will this hell actually stop at some point?

[Cicero]

It'll have to stop at one point, as your roots are constantly rejuvenated by fresh, new keratin. Unless your scalp's keratin production has been completely screwed (which is extremely unlikely and I don't even think is possible without some weird disease) hair growth should be back to normal within a few weeks. If it doesn't stop, I'd suggest seeing a doctor about it...

[Graveyard.Crow]

Oh it's been more than a few weeks
and though after I cut off the screwed up hair it has gotten better, it still falls out a bit more than it should. I guess if it is getting better, I have no where to go but up...Right?? *cries*

[Minyaliel]

Hey, don't worry. I had the same thing too a few years back, and with tender care (read= spending lots and lots of money on products from my hairdresser) it stopped. Go and see your hairdresser about it, ask them for advice.

[Miss_Hazie_Lane]

Originally Posted by Draconysius

That's a nice bit of advice. I definitely needed help on the white foundation. My biggest problem with it is that it causes my face to break out horribly, though. Well, most of the time I just go without it, but maybe a little pale foundation would work for me?

You're probably using a theatrical "grease paint" it's very comedogenic (pore clogging) if you have an oilier skin type I'd suggest trying a powder form applied with water, ben nye makes a really lovely one, but I myself wouldn't attempt white since it's an utter bitch to get on even, just wear sun block, and er, yeah, if you still want paler, you could look into a nice water based liquid foundation, one or two shades lighter than your normal tone and if you get really pro with that mac makes a white face and body that's just lovely

[owlx]

I liked the tips for getting a good deathly pallor...I never thought of doing some of those things...
And I love the "no squigglies!"...no more painting your face like the Crow =P

I have to add one thing:
As far as hair, I've had every color of the rainbow (except yellow...there are lines...bumblebee-looking lines...that I don't cross) and suggest that you find out what your skin tone is before choosing hair colors. Basically, if you look on the inside of your forearm, you can tell whether you have warm or cool skin:
If your veins appear more greenish than blue, you have a warmer skin tone.
If they appear blue-ish, you probably have a cooler skin tone.

If you're cooler, go with cool colors and vice versa. I personally look terrible with pink, orange, or warm red hair because I have very cool-colored skin; I tend to go with purple, green, or blue instead.

[Graveyard.Crow]

Is it true that makep up makes your skin age faster? Or is that just a make up tale?

[Miss_Hazie_Lane]

Originally Posted by Graveyard.Crow

Is it true that makep up makes your skin age faster? Or is that just a make up tale?

That's a complete lie... actually using foundation can make it age more slowly, since it acts as a minor barrier between the skin and everyday irritants (especially if it includes spf) certain cheap foundations can cause dehydration, which isn't aging, but looks unpleasnt, most of it though can do you naught but good (unless you're oily, in which case stick to powders)

[Graveyard.Crow]

Well that just makes me breath easier since I love make up. I'm sure pretty much everyone on this forum does

[Heatherzilla]

I love makeup, I just wish it didn't take so long to put on, I never have time to do my makeup before school. =(

[Graveyard.Crow]

Blah I know what you mean
I also don't always have the money to have the make up that I want so I hate to settle

[Miss_Hazie_Lane]

There are definantly a few things you don't have to splurge on makeupwise (lip color, mascara being definantly go cheap) and there are some quiet decent cheap liners

[Graveyard.Crow]

I disagree about the lipcolor
Every cheap red lipstick first of all dries out my lips, then makes them white after I take it off. Also really does not last and smudges around the corners. I felt insecure for months. Then I got this 24 dollar Este Louder (however you spell that) lipstick and well it was defenetly worth it. I only apply it maybe twice a day and it stays bright. I bet it would last longer than the cheap ones so the value is pretty much the same.

I'm just trying to sound like I know something here. Hehe

[Sable_Rose]

Wow, Thanks for posting this. ....But there is one thing I think I should mention about using eye pencil. I came across this:

http://www.free-beauty-tips.com/eyeshadowpencil.html

"You should not draw the pencil across your eyelid as this could cause stretching of the skin.
"Instead, apply the color to the palm of your hand, then pick up some of the color with your pinky and apply gently to your eyelid."

I thought that might be helpful to some of you.

[Miss_Hazie_Lane]

Originally Posted by Graveyard.Crow

I disagree about the lipcolor
Every cheap red lipstick first of all dries out my lips, then makes them white after I take it off. Also really does not last and smudges around the corners. I felt insecure for months. Then I got this 24 dollar Este Louder (however you spell that) lipstick and well it was defenetly worth it. I only apply it maybe twice a day and it stays bright. I bet it would last longer than the cheap ones so the value is pretty much the same.

I'm just trying to sound like I know something here. Hehe

Ever tried wet n' wild? Estee lauder has a bad habit of including lead oxides in it's lip color which is what makes it stay on so long, but you eat your lipstick, it's unavoidable, if you wear it every day, you eat about two tubes a year

[Minyaliel]

Miss Hazie Lane - oh shit! No kidding? I had no idea it was _that_ much. Sheeses.

Sable_rose - the stretching is just plain bull, a common myth; I asked my mother who's a doctor/ nurse about this and a few other people too. This skin is so elastic that it will not be hurt by a little gentle stretching. _But_, if you apply the eyeshadow like suggested on that site of yours, it is going to look a little less "painted on", which in my book is a plus. =)

[Miss_Hazie_Lane]

Yep, I remember when I learned that in esthetics school I was kind of horrified

[Linen]

Along the lines of hair dyeing, has anyone here every tried using henna? I've been dyeing my own hair various shades of red and reddish brown (one time I even tried blonde - it looked horrid with my freckles!) on & off since I was a kid. It's been pretty harsh on my hair (which is already long and I'm growing it out more), so I'm thinking of switching to something less permanent and more natural.

Supposedly henna tends to give your hair a natural reddish look to it, and it washes out in a couple of months form what I hear. I'm just trying to figure out where to purchase it - other than online- and how to use it. I went to Sally's last night and they said they don't have it - shockingly.

[Sable_Rose]

Originally Posted by Minyaliel

Sable_rose - the stretching is just plain bull, a common myth; I asked my mother who's a doctor/ nurse about this and a few other people too. This skin is so elastic that it will not be hurt by a little gentle stretching. _But_, if you apply the eyeshadow like suggested on that site of yours, it is going to look a little less "painted on", which in my book is a plus. =)

Really? Well, that's certainly a relief. I was scared for awhile there.

QUESTION: On the music video: 30 second's to mars-the Kill, Jared Leto(the singer) has this eye makeup that somewhat closely resembles what I want. But since I've never worn makeup before, I'm not sure how to, or what type of products should be used. If any one could help me a bit that would be great.

-Oh yeah, I heard this tip somewhere about making you lipstick last longer: You have to shade your lips with lip pencil(the color of your lipstick) first, then apply the lipstick.

[Graveyard.Crow]

Here is a sunscreen question. Is it true that if you wear sunscreen all the time your skin gets used to it and it doesn't work anymore.

[Miss_Hazie_Lane]

Originally Posted by Graveyard.Crow

Here is a sunscreen question. Is it true that if you wear sunscreen all the time your skin gets used to it and it doesn't work anymore.

Nope, same with shampoo, conditioner, and everything else, basically a physical sunblock (what you should be using, zinc oxide is awesome) reflects UV, while a chemical (what you shouldn't be using, they're less effective and are irritating to the skin) absorbs it

[Graveyard.Crow]

And how do you know if your sunblock is the bad kind?

[Miss_Hazie_Lane]

Look on the ingredients list, and then look them up online

[Graveyard.Crow]

Thanks doll

[Miss_Hazie_Lane]

anytime happy to help, love

[Graveyard.Crow]

Now your status is goth as fuck, yay for you hehe

[Vladinator]

Could you post a DIY guide to dying your hair? I've done my own hair before, many years ago, but it's been a long, LONG time. I want to dye my hair (not my scalp) black. I'm also looking to use professional quality supplies, not these crappy over the shelf kits.