What's made your day? - Page 164

Timeless Rebellion · 03-12-2013, 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saya

But if you really think sexism is an act of individual men and not an unfair system of power that privileges cis men over women and gender minorities, and you bear no personal responsibility to change that, yes, you're kind of an asshole.

That is not what I meant.
I do my part to fight for equality. I actually went out and hung banners for International Women's Day a few years back.

Of course I want the unjust system changed, it makes no sense to discriminate women based on gender.
I merely meant that blaming me for something I have not done pisses me off.

Timeless Rebellion · 03-12-2013, 12:19 AM

Okay, I actually wrote an apology yesterday for coming off wrong and seeming rude - but it appears I forgot to press "Reply" or something.

I do not wish to trample anybody - I am honestly sorry if I made it seem that way.

Solumina · 03-12-2013, 12:53 AM

But the thing that Saya and I took issue with isn't that you did something rude or mean to women, it is that you basically said it was absolutely terrible being treated like a woman for a whole day, and you should never be treated like that.

Versus · 03-12-2013, 01:12 AM

People always say "it was a long time ago" about everything they don't have to deal with. And that "everything they don't have to deal with" is always something they benefit from. It's like a rule or something.

Timeless Rebellion · 03-12-2013, 01:14 AM

I see what you mean now that you point that out, and I did not mean to discredit the fight for women's rights at all.
I was trying to make an altogether different point, but it came out wrong.
I am sorry about that.

Versus · 03-12-2013, 01:16 AM

You know, instead of rabidly apologizing you could learn something.

Timeless Rebellion · 03-12-2013, 01:16 AM

When I apologize, it is because I learned that I was wrong and somehow did someone wrong. I have been raised to apologize in such a case.

Versus · 03-12-2013, 01:28 AM

You said you were sorry because you think that you were misinterpreted and that your intent was mistaken as malicious, not because you realized why what you said was wrong. So you could stop rabidly apologizing and learn something.

Timeless Rebellion · 03-12-2013, 01:32 AM

Well, that is true. But I obviously offended more than one person, and I felt the need to apologize for that.
It also seems that the issue with women's rights on a global scale is a lot larger than I appear to have realized, and taken that into consideration, I do see the inappropriateness of my previous comments.

Other than that, what then is it that you would have me learn? I am willing to listen.

Versus · 03-12-2013, 02:46 AM

Well, to start, it's obscenely selfish to see all of that and immediately react like you're a victim. All of that isn't about you. Even when someone treats you terribly, it still isn't about you. If you said half the things that were said to you, FEW people would call you a pig, but most would either not argue with you or would actually APPLUAD you. But when a women does it, it's the end of the fucking world, right?

It's not for you to determine what is a "genuine" mistreatment of women and what is somebody "complaining." How you understand sexism is not automatically the default, and again, you're exercising male privilege to think from a position like it is. You don't experience sexism. How are you in a position to define something that you've never had to deal with?

And then after defining "legitimate" sexism, you wiped your hands of it like you have no part in it. But that couldn't be further from the truth. You benefit from sexism, you enable sexism, and you perpetuate sexism. Just because you didn't personally sexually assault or marginalize women doesn't mean you aren't advantaged because other people do. Our entire culture is built on those advantages and when you deny that A) it's manifestations are still present, B) deny that those manifestations which aren't as present don't still have long lasting effects, and C) blanketly absolve yourself of any of that responsibility, YOU are participating in sexism!

Oh. And you acted like that thing you did a few years ago makes you clean. That goes on the bingo card.

Timeless Rebellion · 03-12-2013, 03:10 AM

I see your point. I have never thought of it that way really. I don't even have any counter-arguments, because what you are saying makes perfect sense put like that.
I'll carry that with me in the future.

Versus · 03-12-2013, 03:16 AM

You know, I wouldn't even take it from me. Sol or Saya could explain it better from actual experience and other perspectives. I can't speak for them, so you should really listen to what they have to say.

Timeless Rebellion · 03-12-2013, 03:20 AM

I could understand from their fairly strong reaction that it's a much bigger issue than I believed it to be.

I have always been raised with the philosophy that everyone is equal, so I guess I just assumed that was how people around me worked too. Which, I know, is pretty naive.

Miss Absynthe · 03-12-2013, 03:54 AM

Yes. Well. I got my necomimi ears today.

Timeless Rebellion · 03-12-2013, 04:38 AM

What are Necomimi ears? o.o

Versus · 03-12-2013, 04:50 AM

You know, Timeless, you can stop taking every opportunity you get to mention that you're gender-blind. I think we get it.

Timeless Rebellion · 03-12-2013, 06:04 AM

Is this in relation to my comment about those ear things or my previous comment?

Jonathan · 03-12-2013, 09:42 AM

You should feel guilty about things that happened before you were born and in a different place, TR.

Political cancer is metastasizing throughout the rest of the forum. It's looking terminal.

MissCheyenne · 03-12-2013, 11:02 AM

Got my E-Cig today. Vaping like a mutha. I already smell better.

Versus · 03-12-2013, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timeless Rebellion

Is this in relation to my comment about those ear things or my previous comment?

The 4 or 5 times that you did on the last two pages of this thread. Like, giving yourself a qualifier or otherwise adding or inserting statements or testimonies is typically irrelevant, unnecessary, and indicative that there is something going on in your head.

For example: "I just don't think that two men were designed to be together in a natural way and when we let them do it, it just opens the door for a lot of other problems. And I'm not homophobic or anything, I was always taught to treat people equally so it's not like I just want to discriminate and stuff, but I just think that there is something else going on and maybe we should think about how it's going to effect their adopted children growing up, or maybe their neighbors or whatever, you know? There's just more going on then it looks like at first that we have to think about."

Obviously a bigoted statement with an insertion in there to maybe make the listener think otherwise. It kind of shows that you are aware of what to say and what not to say when talking about something in order to present yourself in a neutral way and are willing to make corrections to your words if you feel that something you say could be perceived negatively.

You basically said "I'm not sexist so when I express my sexist viewpoint don't think that I'm sexist.

Fruitbat · 03-12-2013, 04:54 PM

Downton Abbey.
Tiny houses.

Miss Absynthe · 03-12-2013, 10:30 PM

My necomimi ears...

Solumina · 03-13-2013, 12:19 AM

Those ears are super cute!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timeless Rebellion

I could understand from their fairly strong reaction that it's a much bigger issue than I believed it to be.

And yet you were extremely dismissive and evasive when called out on your male privilege.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timeless Rebellion

I have always been raised with the philosophy that everyone is equal, so I guess I just assumed that was how people around me worked too. Which, I know, is pretty naive.

I can understand this sort of thinking coming from a four year old but you're a fucking adult. You know sexism exists, you know racism exists, you may think you have no experience with them but you damn well know they are a thing. You cannot know that isms exist (even if you are privileged enough to think they aren't a huge deal) and still think that all people are being treated equally, those are two mutually exclusive things.

Timeless Rebellion · 03-13-2013, 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Versus

You basically said "I'm not sexist so when I express my sexist viewpoint don't think that I'm sexist.

I don't ever mean what I say to be offensive, and quite frankly, I feel very uncomfortable when it turns out that I managed to offend someone anyway. When that happens, I have no idea how to react and shoot from my hip so to speak. And sometimes, that manages to turn out badly. I really am not very good at this sort of thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solumina

And yet you were extremely dismissive and evasive when called out on your male privilege.

I can understand this sort of thinking coming from a four year old but you're a fucking adult. You know sexism exists, you know racism exists, you may think you have no experience with them but you damn well know they are a thing. You cannot know that isms exist (even if you are privileged enough to think they aren't a huge deal) and still think that all people are being treated equally, those are two mutually exclusive things.

I know I managed to fuck up here. I did not mean anything evil by it.
I don't know what I can say more than sorry. I didn't mean to offend anyone.
I also see your points of course, and I will carry them with me in the future and be more aware of this.

Fruitbat · 03-13-2013, 08:45 PM

Can someone please explain to me why it's wrong to think of everyone as equal? To look past their colour/race/religion and just accept them for who they are?

If you're an asshole, then you're an asshole, and it doesn't matter where you come from or your sex, or your colour, or belief system, you're still an asshole.

What's wrong with that way of thinking? I always thought that equal opportunity was looking beyond the package a person comes in.

I'm serious, I want to know why it's so wrong?