Goth Craft....uh..what?

[CandyKorns]

I mean it's redundant.

[LaCamilla]

Gah. Goth and magic shouldn't be confused like that. -_- Let the wiccans and witches handle the magic and goths handle the... gothness. In separate books. If anyone wants to combine them afterwards, that's fine. But now, as this book... nah. Doesn't sound very good. :/

[Lady Lilith]

I have to agree-it gets a little weird and/or stupid when it gets to goth and religion...would anyone recommend a book or something? like for those people who are interested in learning about goth?

[Methadrine]

Originally Posted by Lady Lilith

I have to agree-it gets a little weird and/or stupid when it gets to goth and religion...would anyone recommend a book or something? like for those people who are interested in learning about goth?

Here we go... again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goth_subculture

[Lady Lilith]

Sorry....I'm not trying to repeat things someone else has said....

[suture-self]

Originally Posted by Methadrine

...I always thought a Goth Craft was something like THIS.

Oh I would like one of those Meth, very nice.

[suture-self]

GothCraft; A new MMORG for disaffected teens maybe. Sounds like a joke to me too.

[Dorian]

I cast Morten Kaiden's faithful watchbat!!!

[suture-self]

I attack the LIGHT!

[Delkaetre]

Originally Posted by suture-self

I attack the LIGHT!

Oh no.... not that video again!

[Methadrine]

Just for good measure... >CLICK ME<

[Delkaetre]

It's not loading quickly enough for me to watch it before I have run and get food. I haven't eaten in 24 hours, and have had all of two hot meals since Thursday, this combination causing me to be flesh-eatingly ravenous.
.
.
.
It's loading okay now.
Remakes. Oh dear...

[Dorian]

I'm flesh-eatingly ravenous for no reason at all sometimes.
Mostly when I have Subway.

[Delkaetre]

I have no subway. You're making me hungry.
*bites Dorian*
Flesh-eatingly hungry, in fact.

[RhiannonJ]

Actually Raven Digitalis is sure to note that Goth and Magick are not mutually exclusive, but that there exists a notable group of people who do merge the two including the author himself. And since I've known the author since I was fifteen I can say that he's very knowledgeable, articulate, and KIND and has no interest in perpetuating stereotypes but is trying to converse with like-minded (and spirited) individuals. He's had an impressive yet positive impact on our community as well as the Pagan-Goth subculture. His second book Shadow Magick Compendium is due out soon and he's working on his third; he also regularly writes articles, is active on behalf of groups like PETA and Ars Terra, has public and private rituals as Priest, attends Goth and Pagan events all over the country (i.e. Convergence, PantheaCon), DJs for local venues as well as the local college radio station (as a VOLUNTEER), but takes time for friends and fans alike (though the list continues). What have you done lately?

[JCC]

PETA is fucking shitty, and anyone who supports them is obviously ignorant to their vile practices.

EDIT: Wait, shit, why did you bump such a happy, dead topic?

[Man In Room 5]

I just noticed this thread and I wanted to say something about how majorly stupid Digitalis' books are but I bit my tongue because I figured he was probably a Gnet member. Goth Craft strikes me as a book that could have easily been written after about 4 hours of reading the introduction threads here at Gnet and then cranking out a book to meet the expectations of the typcial newbie here. This book must have slipped in under Llewellyn's wire just as they were shutting the gate on their fluffy Wiccan books. If you've been following Llewellyn you'll notice that they have finally backed off the fluff bunny Wiccan market but are now trying to pander to "alternative lifestyles" in general (and getting more into fantasy fiction too). Mixing goth and Wicca is exactly the sort of thing they need to make that marketing transition easier.

Goth Craft breaks down goth like earlier Llewellyn books broke down the cabala or like D&D books break down character classes. He has a page for Rivetheads, a page for Cybergoths, and so on. This is the usual Llewellyn format so that they can put a photo and large print heading on each page so that 12 y.o. readers will turn pages faster and the book will hold their attention longer because they feel they've read more. What else do you expect from the same publisher who brought you Pilgrims Of The Night, a book which suggested that H.P. Lovecraft was secretly sworn into a magical system by his grandfather? Don't forget Crafting the Art of Magic Vol 1. Vol 2 never appeared because vol 1 had so many logic holes that one critic wrote a 70 page attack on it (not to mention the fact that it revealed the names of some pagans who wanted their names kept private). They also brought us The Message of the Crystal Skull which is so bad I won't even attempt to make fun of it.

I guess I just blew my chances of getting my book published by Llewellyn...oh wait, my book is too intelligent for them anyway. Their submission requirements on their homepage once said "we are not an academic publisher". It seems they've since removed the submission guidelines for non-fiction occult books. I guess that is a sure hint they are done milking the fluffy bunny Wiccan market for a while.

/rant against Llewellyn

[KontanKarite]

Why is the goth subculture so entwined with such a special breed of idiot?

Tell Mr. Digitalis that I think he's a fucking hack and find it insulting that he would actually think that goth and paganism is somehow a synergistic kind of thing. I think Daniel Ash should put it in Digitalis' ass w/o lube while Digitalis is coming down fast from his heroine trip.

Can someone please tell me why paganism seems to be riddled with a victim complex?

[Godslayer Jillian]

Can someone please tell me why paganism seems to be an exclusively middle-class religion?

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Can someone please tell me why paganism seems to be an exclusively middle-class religion?

Because the working class are too busy working and not being easy-living morons to worship a bunch of gods that their own people got tired of hundreds of years ago.

[honeythorn]

According to who? I grew up on a shitty council estate surrounded by green belt countryside. To top that I work in a dirty factory. How very easy living of me. About as far from middle class as you can get. Few of the pagans I know would ever be considered middle class.

[KontanKarite]

I'm willing to bet that the only gods you can be sure of right now are Internet, Gadgetry, Television, Radio, Money, and Guns. Don't forget Politics and Religion.

Anyone read American Gods yet? That book is amazing.

[honeythorn]

Of the few books I own that are published by Llewellyn ( to be honest I don't look at the publisher when buying, I just look through to see if it interests me ) only a couple would fall into the "fluffy" category and those are the Scott Cunningham ones. I'm not Wiccan, but his book on oils herbs and incense isn't bad for reference. Ann Moura is distinctly less fluffy when it comes to those publised by them. I'd Say Marian Green is one of my favourites ( not published by Llewellyn ), very straightforward and to the point. Robert Graves' book the White Goddess is a very interesting read in regards to the meaning of European myths and folklore.

I keep meaning to get American Gods actually. And Anansi boys too.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by honeythorn

According to who? I grew up on a shitty council estate surrounded by green belt countryside. To top that I work in a dirty factory. How very easy living of me. About as far from middle class as you can get. Few of the pagans I know would ever be considered middle class.

You're a Pagan?

[honeythorn]

Yes.

I'll be going to this in early September too http://www.merciangathering.com/merciangathering.htm

I'm quite excited. I particularly want to see Phillip Carr Gomm, Angela Paine, and John Crow. Naturally I must get one of the Viking guys to teach me some proper sword work if they have time.