Alf

[Duncan]

Originally Posted by Saya

So a girl isn't equal to a man?

In theory of course they are equal.
But physically? My first hand experience is that girl/boy figths tend to end with the boy winning. Damn biology is not P.C. again. We should demonstrate against it.

[honeythorn]

Originally Posted by Saya

I know in one case here they released mink from a fur farm out into the wild, and established themselves nicely..

Are Mink native to Newfoundland?

Someone did the same here. Only thing is mink are not native to this country and DECIMATED the wildlife, even attacking anglers in a bid for food. Not exactly a responsible move.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Duncan

I did not say their ideas are wrong. I just disapprove of vigilante behaviour. You are not the ultimate justice. I am not the ultimate justice.Who the hell I am to punish or judge anyone?

...The ALF has nothing to do with punishment. The ALF just frees animals. That's why they're the Animal Liberation Front and not the Animal Rights BLOODY VENGEANCE Army.

[Saya]

Originally Posted by Duncan

In theory of course they are equal.
But physically? My first hand experience is that girl/boy figths tend to end with the boy winning. Damn biology is not P.C. again. We should demonstrate against it.

You're just assuming a girl isn't going to kick you in the nuts.

Originally Posted by honeythorn

Are Mink native to Newfoundland?

Someone did the same here. Only thing is mink are not native to this country and DECIMATED the wildlife, even attacking anglers in a bid for food. Not exactly a responsible move.

No but we did kill most of our pine marten for fur so there was a niche that needed filling. I don't really feel sympathy for people who are killing animals complaining about animals attacking them while they are in the act, nor can I saw whether the animals who were bred and doomed to die horribly shouldn't have been released to eat wild animals, its either one or the other who die.

[honeythorn]

Originally Posted by Saya

You're just assuming a girl isn't going to kick you in the nuts.



No but we did kill most of our pine marten for fur so there was a niche that needed filling. I don't really feel sympathy for people who are killing animals complaining about animals attacking them while they are in the act, nor can I saw whether the animals who were bred and doomed to die horribly shouldn't have been released to eat wild animals, its either one or the other who die.

They should have been released into their native environment. You didn't eradicate the pine marten or make them extinct, so no a niche did not "need" filling.

I'm not saying they shouldn't be released, but to let them loose on an environment and an ecosystem that has not evolved to cope with them is bloody irresponsible. The native wildlife should always be taken into consideration . By releasing just one non native species, you could eventually end up eradicating another equally important species. For people who supposedly care about animals that's a pretty idiotic thing to do.

[Saya]

Originally Posted by honeythorn

They should have been released into their native environment. You didn't eradicate the pine marten or make them extinct, so no a niche did not "need" filling.

I'm not saying they shouldn't be released, but to let them loose on an environment and an ecosystem that has not evolved to cope with them is bloody irresponsible. The native wildlife should always be taken into consideration . By releasing just one non native species, you could eventually end up eradicating another equally important species. For people who supposedly care about animals that's a pretty idiotic thing to do.

We've very nearly eradicated the pine marten, they're in very few sections of the island, central Newfoundland has very strict no trapping laws because they get caught up in snares. We also succeeded in killing off the timber wolf and introduced the moose. We still have wildlife, no matter how much we tried.

You can't keep mink as pets, they haven't been domesticated for very long and have been bred for size and fur quality, not to be docile like other domesticated animals. Its a matter of do we intentionally kill lots of animals we've bred, or give them a chance at life at the expense of other wild animals? How do we judge what other species are "important"?

[honeythorn]

For such a well known organisation you'd think they would have the presence of mind , to contact people who can re-habilitate the mink back into their native areas. Plenty of other people seem to manage it with other species.

[Duncan]

Originally Posted by JCC

...The ALF has nothing to do with punishment. The ALF just frees animals. That's why they're the Animal Liberation Front and not the Animal Rights BLOODY VENGEANCE Army.

I see what you meant, but I still think it's not reasonable what they are doing.

I really enjoy this discussion, I am sure, that we could continue for several pages, (if you would like to, I will be glad to answer your questions) but I doubt that this will change my or your views. BTW that wasn't my goal, I just tried to understand them.

I would close this discussion the way Joker started it "I approve of their goals, even if I don't always agree with their methods." Correct enough?

Originally Posted by Saya

You're just assuming a girl isn't going to kick you in the nuts.

You are assuming that I am a boy.
It is probably because you did not read my intro/profile. Next time would you please read before you type?

I am a girl.
Because I dare to question things I disapprove, I have some experience of fighting.

I just tried to illustrate situation of unequal chances. Ok, I used a stereotype. Philosophy and politics are usually using them, because human mind is so limited, that it needs them. Pardon me, I meant no offense.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by honeythorn

For such a well known organisation you'd think they would have the presence of mind , to contact people who can re-habilitate the mink back into their native areas. Plenty of other people seem to manage it with other species.

Well, the ALF is a decentralised organisation, so anyone freeing animals is a cell of the ALF, but generally I would say that most of them would understand that releasing animals into different ecosystems is daft.

[Joker_in_the_Pack]

They usually take the animals, not just release them. The only problem is that the media doesn't focus on how much better the saved animals lives are. They only focus on the few times those animals get out and go fucking apeshit in the Irish countryside.

[Sinjob]

I am an avid supporter of Alf.

XD

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Sinjob

I am an avid supporter of Alf.

XD

We all thought of that joke, we just had too much dignity to say it.

[Sinjob]

Originally Posted by JCC

We all thought of that joke, we just had too much dignity to say it.

..Obviously not the free time either. You take shit way too seriously, and that has nothing to do with dignity. Just arrogance.

[Joker_in_the_Pack]

Originally Posted by Sinjob

..Obviously not the free time either. You take shit way too seriously, and that has nothing to do with dignity. Just arrogance.

You have it backwards. JCC is not arrogant. Arrogance is JCC (I'd say Arrogance is Dick but that would make things more confusing than needed)

[Sinjob]

I suppose, haha.

[Saya]

Originally Posted by Duncan

I see what you meant, but I still think it's not reasonable what they are doing.

I really enjoy this discussion, I am sure, that we could continue for several pages, (if you would like to, I will be glad to answer your questions) but I doubt that this will change my or your views. BTW that wasn't my goal, I just tried to understand them.

I would close this discussion the way Joker started it "I approve of their goals, even if I don't always agree with their methods." Correct enough?



You are assuming that I am a boy.
It is probably because you did not read my intro/profile. Next time would you please read before you type?

I am a girl.
Because I dare to question things I disapprove, I have some experience of fighting.

I just tried to illustrate situation of unequal chances. Ok, I used a stereotype. Philosophy and politics are usually using them, because human mind is so limited, that it needs them. Pardon me, I meant no offense.

I don't click on everyone's profile while I'm arguing with them, if you have a male name and talk about how weaker women are I'll assume you're male, sorry that I just didn't have enough interest in you to check your profile. And how that scenario had anything to do with ALF I don't understand at all since they don't beat up anyone, let alone women and children.

As for their methods, I'm okay with a broken window if it means animals are going to be saved, if you feel that what happens to the animals if left to their demise is just as violent as a broken window, then I don't really know what to say to you.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Sinjob

..Obviously not the free time either. You take shit way too seriously, and that has nothing to do with dignity. Just arrogance.

Oh, stop moaning.

[Duncan]

Originally Posted by Saya

I don't click on everyone's profile while I'm arguing with them, if you have a male name and talk about how weaker women are I'll assume you're male, sorry that I just didn't have enough interest in you to check your profile. And how that scenario had anything to do with ALF I don't understand at all since they don't beat up anyone, let alone women and children.

Do you mind reading the previous replies?

Originally Posted by Saya

As for their methods, I'm okay with a broken window if it means animals are going to be saved, if you feel that what happens to the animals if left to their demise is just as violent as a broken window, then I don't really know what to say to you.

I think its quite unmature to solve problems by destroying things. We are not living in the stone age. There are more democratic ways to handle problems.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Duncan

I think its quite unmature to solve problems by destroying things. We are not living in the stone age. There are more democratic ways to handle problems.

No, there aren't. Look at Huntingdon Life Sciences. There's a massive anti-HLS movement and it's made absolutely no progress from protests, petitions, speeches, pleas etc. and the rights to protest are repeatedly being rescinded. There's not much of an alternative left when you're not being heard other than making more noise, and that's where the ALF come in and actually do something.

[Godslayer Jillian]

[quote=Duncan;533634I think its quite unmature to solve problems by destroying things. We are not living in the stone age. There are more democratic ways to handle problems.[/QUOTE]And you were talking about how I'm no one to judge?
With such a stupid and unrealistic sense of moral superiority?

Who the fuck honestly believes that retaliation to oppression is immature? you're fucked up.

[Saya]

Originally Posted by Duncan

Do you mind reading the previous replies?

I did but I don't see how it has anything whatsoever to do with ALF, you just went on a tangent.

I think its quite unmature to solve problems by destroying things. We are not living in the stone age. There are more democratic ways to handle problems.

Yeah, activism is totally immature. Harriet Tubman should have known better. Gandhi shouldn't have taken that salt.

[Duncan]

I think to reach permanent effect we should solve the problem itself not just fight against its consequences. Radical actions are looking spectacular in videos, but often the only thing they do, because the same shit will going on in different labs. Petitions, speeches, etc. work differently.


Saya: GJ asked the question:

"What's better: asking politely a bully to stop beating the shit out of you or punching him in the face and demand out of him to fuck off?"

And my answer was that you can try other solutions than "punching people in the face".

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Duncan

Petitions, speeches, etc. work differently.

The ALF wouldn't have started if those things were working.

[Raptor]

So the ALF free any animals being used for testing? I'm ok with medicine testing on animals once it gets past computer simulation phases. It has to get tested on people in the end, I prefer giving them a higher chance of survival at the expense of animals. Obviously it's a not foolproof safety, but better than going direct to human testing.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by Raptor

So the ALF free any animals being used for testing? I'm ok with medicine testing on animals once it gets past computer simulation phases. It has to get tested on people in the end, I prefer giving them a higher chance of survival at the expense of animals. Obviously it's a not foolproof safety, but better than going direct to human testing.

Okay. They aren't.