Abortions: Pro or Against? - Page 2

Wise Child · 02-11-2006, 03:14 AM

I'm pro-choice. That's all I really have to say on the subject; there are so many ins and outs I'll wind up with steam coming outta my ears if I try to go deeper over the internet.

WolfMoon · 02-11-2006, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Santarea

In Texas, a woman was being sexually attacked and had the wherewithal to ask her attacker to wear a condome. She pressed charges. His attorney argues that her request equalled her consent. (I cannot recall the verdict strangelt enough, but will look it up)

your thoughts?

(

I heard about that awhile back.

I don't think it's an act of consent to ask her attacker to wear a condom. But I do honestly wonder if she really expected him to. If someone's going to assualt you, they don't give a shit enough to wear a condom or use kid gloves for that matter. So why ask in the first place?

dreamforthedead · 02-11-2006, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WolfMoon

I heard about that awhile back.

I don't think it's an act of consent to ask her attacker to wear a condom. But I do honestly wonder if she really expected him to. If someone's going to assualt you, they don't give a shit enough to wear a condom or use kid gloves for that matter. So why ask in the first place?

The same thing happened in a town called Orange that I used to live in. But the man was let off scot-free because the jury decided that because the woman asked him to use a condom it was consent. How would that make you feel? Knowing that 1) You've been ***** 2) You had to re-live what was probably the most traumatizing event in your life and that the end result was that the rapist got off without so much as a week in prison. It eats me up inside.

Defy · 02-11-2006, 08:21 AM

I don't want to kill any life

I think every life have will to live

we're got our life to live
even in darkness way

Empty_Purple_Stars · 02-11-2006, 11:11 AM

I think that was Thai for " I am against Abortion."

Tall One In Black · 02-11-2006, 01:42 PM

There are some aspects of abortion I have qualms with, such as late-term abortion and abortion as a means of birth control. They're irresponsible.

Personally, I don't want children. I never have and can't imagine that I ever will. For me, getting pregnant is one of the worst scenarios I can imagine. If, heaven forbid, that should ever happen, I would want the option of abortion. It would be a painfully difficult decision to make, and I'm honestly not sure what I would do, but I would want the option.

I keep the odds strongly in my favor by relying on the pill. Every other birth control method has too high a failure rate for me to trust. Condoms are about 15-20% - no way in hell I'd play with those odds. If I should ever have to stop taking the pill, I will have a tubal ligation.

Tall One In Black · 02-11-2006, 05:40 PM

Here's an inflammatory statement: unless you are trying to get pregnant, having sex without birth control is stupid. Just plain stupid.

Godslayer Jillian · 02-11-2006, 06:01 PM

I'm against, unless it will endanger the mother, either phisically or psychologically.
No one would kill a three month old baby because the mother decided she doesn't want him after all. So why should we kill the baby when she is 3 months old in the womb?

Wise Child · 02-11-2006, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tall One In Black

Here's an inflammatory statement: unless you are trying to get pregnant, having sex without birth control is stupid. Just plain stupid.

Not inflammatory. Plain common sense.

Tall One In Black · 02-11-2006, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

No one would kill a three month old baby because the mother decided she doesn't want him after all. So why should we kill the baby when she is 3 months old in the womb?

It's not accurate to compare a three-month-old baby and a baby who's three months old in the womb. To accurately compare them, you need to use the same starting point for age. (In this case, conception.) Thus, it would be a 12-month-old baby and a three-month-old baby (still in utero) that you're comparing.

Godslayer Jillian · 02-11-2006, 06:09 PM

Yeah, but don't most people choose abortion before the third trimester? So I had to use the three month old baby for my statement

Tall One In Black · 02-11-2006, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Yeah, but don't most people choose abortion before the third trimester? So I had to use the three month old baby for my statement

You're missing the point. Your comparison uses two different frames of reference - just because the number "3" is recurring doesn't mean that a baby who's three months old in the womb can be accurately compared to a baby who was born three months ago. For one, the mother of the baby who's three months old in the womb has had three months (at most) to think about the issue. The mother of the baby who was born three months ago has had a year to think about the issue.

The third trimester starts at six months, not three months.

Godslayer Jillian · 02-11-2006, 06:42 PM

Hehe, it was not about the number 3, but yeah, I understand.
Oh, by the way, I meant the first trimester. I don't know I think I just had a glitch about the number 3 in that post

WolfMoon · 02-12-2006, 09:15 AM

From my personal stand-point, I can't condone it after the fetus has a heartbeat. It has a heartbeat after only 21 days, most people don't find out they're preggers til after that point.

Just my own view, not pushing it on anyone.

Queenofdarkness57 · 02-12-2006, 09:52 AM

I'm with and against abortion depending on the situation. For instance, killing a fetus because the parents are not ready or simply don't want to take care of the baby upsets me. This is their mistake, they'll have to deal with it and have NO right to murder a living human being. On the other hand, a baby who will be born with problems and will have to live in agony throughout his/her life is really painful. In this case, I am pro-abortion.

rockandrose · 02-12-2006, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logan Weller

i mean people die all the time everyday, and i could give a shit about those people. i mean, they're dead now so what the hell y'know? am i insensitive?

Yes, people die all the time. But, when a person's life is in your hands, it shoudn't be a "let's get it over and done with" kind of decision. I think the decision to have an abortion should always be thoroughly decided.

For instance, if you can carelessly bring a foetus to the world, that can potentially become a human, then why on earth would you just abort it, in a way that it didn't have any value to it in the first place?

You may be a male, so you would never have the opportunity to physcially know how it would feel to have a foetus growing inside you. But, your gender doesn't dismiss abortion being a potential issue in the future for you.

I think murder cases are taken seriously, so should abortion. It's sad when a person makes a decision to take the abortion option, because it is an unwanted pregnancy that could of easily been prevented by birth control.

I know friends who get paranoid for being pregnant because they didn't use a condom during their last sexual activity.

Sigh

Blushing Heliophobe · 02-13-2006, 12:39 AM

I'll share some of my personal experience on this one -

No, I haven't had an abortion. This is my first pregnancy. It was NOT planned though. And even with a secure financial situation and a husband that loves me, at first, I was absolutely miserable. I felt like my life was over. I felt like my body had been taken over and I was so miserable.

I feel differently now, and this child is most precious to me.

The whole point it; I think I can understand what a young pregnant woman must feel like. If I felt that unhappy and flat out depressesed, then being young, financially instable, and emotionally unstable must be a hell of a situation.

Of course, I think it is irresponsible to use abortion as a method of birth control - but I also think that it's impossible to know how a young mother feels in her own particular situation.

Even though I am pro-life PERSONALLY (pro-choice politically) if I had gotten pregnant under other circumstances, I may have had an abortion. I really don't know.

I'll have to go home and check, but I was reading about this issue in Jimmy Carter's new book. He claims that most abortions occur in families who make under 20,000 a year, and 70% of those who obtain abortions cite financial instability as a reason they felt they could not carry the child. He says that in his opinion, it's easy to hurl insults at young women who choose abortion, but those same detractors aren't offering to provide formula, daipers, child care, health insurance, etc for the child if the mother does choose to keep it.

On a side note - I am so grateful that no one on here has gone on a "Sluts need to close their legs!" tirade. I'm glad that at least here we can discuss issues like this without disrespecting each other's humanity.

Wise Child · 02-13-2006, 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blushing Heliophobe

I'll have to go home and check, but I was reading about this issue in Jimmy Carter's new book. He claims that most abortions occur in families who make under 20,000 a year, and 70% of those who obtain abortions cite financial instability as a reason they felt they could not carry the child. He says that in his opinion, it's easy to hurl insults at young women who choose abortion, but those same detractors aren't offering to provide formula, daipers, child care, health insurance, etc for the child if the mother does choose to keep it.

You live in England, don't you, Blushing? How many times a day do you turn on the TV and stumble upon some chat show where welfare mums are getting slated for leeching off the taxpayers? A lot of people really resent those mothers who choose to have their baby despite being unable to afford it. (I'm not talking about the mothers who go ahead and have eight or so, knowing that they have no intention of supporting them and will bring them up on welfare, 'cause "Ah juss love kids". They piss me off something chronic.)

Blushing Heliophobe · 02-13-2006, 03:04 AM

I live here, Wise, but I'm not very entrenched in the culture. I listen to BBC radio, but I don't have SKY or any British friends. Working and living on base kind of keeps me from much interaction.

I can understand what you're saying, though. There's a lot of that resentment in the US, as well.

Last I checked, federal funds are not allocated to offset abortion costs for poverty-level women, but a lot of taxpayer money does go into WIC and welfare.

Tall One In Black · 02-13-2006, 03:03 PM

Where I grew up, finding out someone was pregnant was almost always bad news. It meant another child would arrive in a world of laziness, alcohol abuse, and ignorance. It meant another child would go on the rolls of welfare and food stamps. It meant a perpetuation of the cycle.

I didn't see handsome couples with their smiling children. I saw scruffy barefoot rednecks dragging their ill-mannered brats around while screaming obscenities, cigarette hanging out of their mouth, beer in hand.

Consequently, I am VERY skeptical about babies. It's hard for me to be excited about someone's pregnancy, even if the circumstances are perfect.

rockandrose · 02-13-2006, 07:01 PM

For a while now, I've read about this pill, and it's currently in debate here in Aust, as to whether it should be legalised here.

Now that there's the pill RU486, abortion is probably an easier option to have. So far, I'm not too fond of this pill, as it's still new, in terms of being a method to aborting, and I'm yet to know a lot more of it's possible side effects.

This statement sounds pretty horrid to me:

"RU486 is not a therapeutic product; it brings about a miscarriage which leads to an abortion in women of up to three months' pregnancy and for that reason it's called an abortifacient and as a consequence it's different to all other kinds of drugs and therefore should be dealt with differently," Mr Pyne told ABC radio yesterday.

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...5E2702,00.html

The thought of having an abortion by taking a pill paints a disturbing picture in my mind.

Blushing Heliophobe · 02-14-2006, 12:12 AM

http://www.drdrew.com/article.asp?id=1171

Just in case anyone was wondering - there is a difference between RU-486 and the 'Morning After' pill; I linked to an article by Dr. Drew for anyone who'd like to read it.

I am highly in favor of allowing minors access to the morning after pill. To my point of view - if a slip of judgement or substance-induced state causes unprotected sex to occur, it seems to be the perfect answer to preventing an unwanted pregnancy without having to have an abortion.

I've used it once - it is actually a certain combination of what you can find in one month's cycle of birth control pills.

I think that if we educate our kids (meaning teenagers) better about how to protect themselves, then we'd experience much less unwanted pregnancy and abortion.

Here is something interesting, from the Guttmacher University page...

"Despite the decline[of teenage pregnancy rates in recent years], the United States continues to have one of the highest teenage pregnancy rates in the developed world--twice as high as those in England, Wales or Canada and nine times as high as rates in the Netherlands and Japan."

And...

"At least 40% of [American]students report that topics such as STDs and HIV, birth control, how to use and where to obtain birth control, and how to handle pressure to have sex either were not covered in their most recent sexuality education course or were not covered sufficiently."

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_sex_ed02.html

I'd really like to think that by better educating our kids not only on abstinence but on 'safe sex' will decrease the rate of unwanted pregnancies and abortion. Even though a lot of Americans want 'abstinence only' to be taught, I think that the numbers show it's not working...

rockandrose · 02-14-2006, 03:49 AM

I agree that education about sex is important to all teenagers.

Even condoms are given out to students to encourage to have protected sex, and are available at our Uni medical centre. Though, the majority of the students at my Uni have passed their teen years and the Uni students are labelled as "adults", we're still being educated and reminded that we should always take "responsible" and that it work both ways, which is really pure common sense, though there are people who can forget about such things, and need reminding.

I'm glad that there is this awareness at my Uni and that safe sex/STD education is often reminded to students.

WolfMoon · 02-15-2006, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Queenofdarkness57

I'm with and against abortion depending on the situation. For instance, killing a fetus because the parents are not ready or simply don't want to take care of the baby upsets me. This is their mistake, they'll have to deal with it and have NO right to murder a living human being. On the other hand, a baby who will be born with problems and will have to live in agony throughout his/her life is really painful. In this case, I am pro-abortion.

Who decides how bad the quality of life will be for potential babies to be aborted?

I've never met a handi-capped person that's said, "I wish I had been aborted."

Sometimes I think it should be allowed for people who are financially challenged.

leticia · 02-16-2006, 05:40 AM

i am pro-choice. i think it's irresponsible for a mother to use it as birth control, or to kill it if she can't look after it. i understand that in certain situations it is the best option for both mother and the baby. i would never have one done.

when i was sixteen i got pregnant and the general consensus among my friends is that i should have had an abortion but i didn't. i screwed up my GCSEs and lost my place in college but now when i look at my baby i can't imagine having killed her when she was still inside me.

i know a lot of people will think that i screwed up my life but it was my choice. like i said, i'm pro-choice, but i will never have one myself.