Lady Gaga.

[Still Jack]

Hang on? let me get this straight: you're disappointed in us because the majority of us don't find a mediocre pop album appealing?

This, for you, is strangely out of character.

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

Lol I guess I still overestimate you dudes.

Hey bitch. How about you explain yourself for a fucking change?

Oh wait. You're Ophelia. You're just going to throw your passive aggressive comments out there cause you know, we're just supposed to GET you.

It's not our fault that YOU have shit tastes in music. Fuck off. Bitch.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

Hey bitch. How about you explain yourself for a fucking change?

Oh wait. You're Ophelia. You're just going to throw your passive aggressive comments out there cause you know, we're just supposed to GET you.

It's not our fault that YOU have shit tastes in music. Fuck off. Bitch.

We love you, Natalie!
I wanna fuck you, too!

[Alan]

And yet you still won't explain yourself.
Awesome.

[Hydrodyssodia]

Originally Posted by Despanan

the fact of the matter is that her music is extremely superficial, and without the bizarre presentation and fashion sense, she'd be pretty forgettable.

I'd like to point out, this is the point.

[Hydrodyssodia]

Originally Posted by erotomaniac87

Well, I guess violence towards women is still in.

I fail to see why do you need to mention you are a woman.

[Underwater Ophelia]

Originally Posted by Alan

And yet you still won't explain yourself.
Awesome.

Why the hell would I?

Am I seriously going to take the time to type out a detailed account of my opinions on a pop star's music for the benefit of this website?

You wasted enough time posting about it in the first place here. So... again, begging the question:

If you want to discuss Gaga in a forum inherently and obviously hostile to Gaga, then why are you not prepared or not interested in having a legitimate conversation? Are you a time waster? Is that it?

This could have been an interesting thread. But you ruined it. Good job.

[Alan]

Originally Posted by Underwater Ophelia

Why the hell would I?

Am I seriously going to take the time to type out a detailed account of my opinions on a pop star's music for the benefit of this website?

You have time to waste to tell us you're looking down on us but not enough time to tell us where you got that pedestal?

[IEnjoystabbingmypeers]

Hmmmmmmmmm...

[Mr.Doobie]

Originally Posted by Despanan

While I'll grant you that Lady Gaga is better than the usual pop-fair, and I definitely give her props for being able to get red-state mid-westerners dancing to tunes about it being okay to be gay...the fact of the matter is that her music is extremely superficial, and without the bizarre presentation and fashion sense, she'd be pretty forgettable.

This is what happens when some music executives decide to manufacture David Bowie from the top-down. Without the economic downturn and the people's subsequent wish to find a "real" artist Gaga would never have been booked at those "Underground NYC rock-clubs" by her agent and production team.

What it comes down to is, are you cool with slick top-down commercially created performers (I'm not) or are you interested in bottom-up artists?

I mean if you're cool with the music and culture you consume being a product first and expression second (well really fifth or sixth when you get down to it) then have at it. I personally need a bit more.

I contend that you shouldn't be bothered by the idea of your music being a product first if you enjoy it. The idea that "real" artists are somehow better than "fake" artists (pretty much any musician the guy doesn't like) is a lie perpetrated by people who want to return to some "glory days" that never happened.

Unless your problem is that by buying her music your feeding into the massive dinosaur that is the record business, I hate to break it to you, but unless you're listening to nothing but buskers playing on the streets, you're feeding into that machine one way or another. One of the problems of living in a capitalist society and whatnot.

[Mr.Doobie]

What it comes down to is, are you cool with slick top-down commercially created performers (I'm not) or are you interested in bottom-up artists?

Can you be both?

[prophecyofdoom]

Is Gaga manufactured? I'm not really interested in that kind of music so I haven't heard too much of her work, but I started paying attention to her after I saw an interview where she struck me as levelheaded and thought-provoking. I got the impression that she's an unusual looking woman with a beautiful voice who got where she is by the force of her personality. She has a strength about her I approve of. I find myself paying attention when she appears on TV. I've still only heard the two songs though.

[IEnjoystabbingmypeers]

Hmmm.... Hmmm.
HMM.

[Hydrodyssodia]

Gaga IS manufactured, but entirelly by herself. I basically reccomend watching the Bad Romance video, that's her in a nutshell.

Originally Posted by IEnjoystabbingmypeers

Hmmm.... Hmmm.
HMM.

Thought provoking insights.

Originally Posted by Mr.Doobie

I contend that you shouldn't be bothered by the idea of your music being a product first if you enjoy it. The idea that "real" artists are somehow better than "fake" artists (pretty much any musician the guy doesn't like) is a lie perpetrated by people who want to return to some "glory days" that never happened.

You're wrong. First off, pop music is inherently BETTER on a technical standpoint. Also, Despanan didn't say anything about those that don't mind about their music being a product first. He just doesn't like his music being a product first and art second. There's actually nothing wrong with that and technically, it's more virtuous.

Unless your problem is that by buying her music your feeding into the massive dinosaur that is the record business, I hate to break it to you, but unless you're listening to nothing but buskers playing on the streets, you're feeding into that machine one way or another. One of the problems of living in a capitalist society and whatnot.

Thought terminating cliche'. Dude, Despanan actually DOES listen to self produced and self released artists. None of them have record deals and their music is generally more honest.

I feel bad for you. Despanan is going to stomp your colon.

Originally Posted by Mr.Doobie

Can you be both?

Underground artists succeed commercially all the time. Do I have to give you a list? But you can't put Gaga next to Metallica. You can't put Gaga next to David Bowie. You can't put Gaga next to Manson even.

But what you CAN do, is put Gaga next Britney Spears. You can put Gaga next to Christina Agulera. You can put Gaga next to Back Street Boys and New Kids on The Block.

See where this is going?

[Solumina]

Side note: Back Street and New Kids on The Block have put themselves next to each other and are touring as NKOTBSB, apparently the venues are all selling out rather quickly.

[Mr.Doobie]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

You're wrong. First off, pop music is inherently BETTER on a technical standpoint. Also, Despanan didn't say anything about those that don't mind about their music being a product first. He just doesn't like his music being a product first and art second. There's actually nothing wrong with that and technically, it's more virtuous.

Never said there was anything wrong with that, I was saying there's nothing wrong with the other way either. Also, why is it more virtuous?

Alsoalso, I have to echo the above in that, are we sure Lady Gaga was manufactured?

Thought terminating cliche'. Dude, Despanan actually DOES listen to self produced and self released artists. None of them have record deals and their music is generally more honest.

So do I, and I applaud anyone that does.

Underground artists succeed commercially all the time. Do I have to give you a list? But you can't put Gaga next to Metallica. You can't put Gaga next to David Bowie. You can't put Gaga next to Manson even.

But what you CAN do, is put Gaga next Britney Spears. You can put Gaga next to Christina Agulera. You can put Gaga next to Back Street Boys and New Kids on The Block.

See where this is going?

So people aren't allowed to listen to musicians of varying degrees of respectability and talent? I listen to Cecil Taylor, the Beatles, Wagner, Charles Mingus, Albert Ayler, the Beach Boys, etc., but I also listen to 1910 Fruitgum Company, the Lemon Pipers, the Monkees, Fall Out Boy, etc.

[Stormtrooper of Death]

I don't mind her music, and it's not all that bad, but there is one thing that rubs me the wrong way, I really doubt she made that studded jacket for the Telephone video, and I really doubt she knows who Doom is, and owns all their music, which I do.

I don't really see what you're getting at.

If you're trying to argue that somehow Desp has made some sort of call on someone's character because they listen to Justin Bieber, you'd be wrong. You're trying real hard to convince those that are hostile to pop music to be okay with pop music. Stop it. It's silly and those that don't prefer to listen to pop music because they know they'll hate it is totally fine.

It's not like they're missing anything. Would you really expect people to drink bleach, just because they haven't done it before? A lot of people don't have to partake in something to know it's poison or bad for them. They can read it right on the bloody label.

[Mr.Doobie]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

I don't really see what you're getting at.

If you're trying to argue that somehow Desp has made some sort of call on someone's character because they listen to Justin Bieber, you'd be wrong. You're trying real hard to convince those that are hostile to pop music to be okay with pop music. Stop it. It's silly and those that don't prefer to listen to pop music because they know they'll hate it is totally fine.

It's not like they're missing anything. Would you really expect people to drink bleach, just because they haven't done it before? A lot of people don't have to partake in something to know it's poison or bad for them. They can read it right on the bloody label.

What I'm getting at is that it's ok to like whatever music you do like, and there is no right or wrong answer. Implying that someone is somehow less virtuous or whatever because they can arbitrarily declare the music "manufactured" is stupid.

You don't have to listen to pop music, that's completely fine, but admit that what it really comes down to is that you don't like the music.

Dude...

[Mr.Doobie]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

Dude...

What? Please care to elaborate your exasperation instead of just throwing out image macros.

No. You're just being annoying.

My thesis is that if one actually enjoys top down produced music as a means of being a product first and a piece of art second, that person would typically have really shit tastes in music.

I'm not saying that any excuse to legitimize a love for a brand is irrelevant, I'm saying they're just stupid excuses.

If you really like Gaga, that's fine. But I'd have to say that's some shit music you like right there.

It's not like I'm asking people to change their opinions because they love pop music, I'm saying that I'm not going to be inclined to respect their tastes in music. I don't really have to.