Goth VS. Poser - Page 2

KontanKarite · 03-29-2007, 06:33 PM

hmhmhmhmhmhmmmm...

Valerius · 03-29-2007, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

Wouldn't you rather be called a goth before being called an emo?

Hahaha! I laughed from this.

But, seriously, I agree it's the mindset and the music. But, there are certain criteria to be fulfilled before you can call yourself a real 'goth', like creativity, appreciation for the darker side of life, decadence, spontaneity and intelligence amongst other things.

A poser just goes and does stereotypical goth things influenced by a misinformed society just to be make himself feel 'cool'.

On a side note, the mainstream is trying to pass emo off as the new goth, which, in a way kind of ticks me off.

Arashi · 03-29-2007, 07:30 PM

Hmm,
basically, to sum this entire board up in 16 words,
you can ask a million people what 'goth' is, and you'll get a million different answers.

Valerius · 03-29-2007, 07:35 PM

Actually, 17 since "you'll" is two words combined.

Don't mind me, I'm just feeling like a smart-ass.

Arashi · 03-29-2007, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valerius

Actually, 17 since "you'll" is two words combined.

Don't mind me, I'm just feeling like a smart-ass.

'you'll' may be two words when seperated, but when combined is only one word..
But I guess that really depends on whomever taught one such things.

Lykaios · 03-29-2007, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draconysius

Jillian's pretty much right, you know. Goth WAS founded on a musical genre. We could say it's a mindset because most of us do share many thoughts in common with one another, BUT music is the single most important aspect of goth, so it should be what decides goth from poseur. Goth was NOTHING until the music came along, just like punk, metal, rap, or any other subculture.

EXACTLY. I've been called an elitist so many times for saying that.

With that said, I'll give my definitions.

Goth - Someone who listens to and enjoys the Gothic rock genre. One does not have to listen solely to this genre to be a Goth, however. That is a common misconception. Along with listening to the music, they have some knowledge of the culture (and genuinely enjoy, rather than just pretending they do), and call themselves a Goth because of this.

Poseur - A person or persons who claims to be 'Gawth', yet has no knowledge whatsoever of Goth rock, the Goth culture, etc., and instead follows a ridiculous stereotype. This person is likely to claim that Goth is either a mindset, or a style of dress, or that listening to metal, or "Gothic" metal for that matter, makes them Gothier Than Thou.

Lykaios · 03-29-2007, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arashi

Hmm,
basically, to sum this entire board up in 16 words,
you can ask a million people what 'goth' is, and you'll get a million different answers.

There is only one RIGHT answer, I'm afraid.

See my above definition.

Draconysius · 03-29-2007, 09:34 PM

The meaning of goth is hard for people to nail down because knowledge from the first-generation of subcultures is often lost in the confusion. Some people think punk is about rebelling or vandalism, some people think metal is about Satan-worship and hate, and some people thing goth is about moping around and vampires. The confusion here is no different than in any subculture. The truth is that one must have a liking for gothic music in order to be goth. It just makes fucking sense. Everything else is just icing on the black cake. I'm with Jillian and Lykaios on this one.

happy_dude · 03-29-2007, 09:41 PM

A Goth is a fan of Gothic rock. Nothing more, nothing less.

End thread.

Vyvian Blackthorne · 03-30-2007, 05:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draconysius

The meaning of goth is hard for people to nail down because knowledge from the first-generation of subcultures is often lost in the confusion. Some people think punk is about rebelling or vandalism, some people think metal is about Satan-worship and hate, and some people thing goth is about moping around and vampires. The confusion here is no different than in any subculture. The truth is that one must have a liking for gothic music in order to be goth. It just makes fucking sense. Everything else is just icing on the black cake. I'm with Jillian and Lykaios on this one.

Right. No one can, as a whole, put goth in its place without changing around definitions and words. Though as many state, the origins of goth go back to the nineteenth century but yes, was offically founded based on a genre of music. So pop me in with the people agreeing with this theory.

mrs.wes straker · 03-30-2007, 05:48 AM

Ugh I wonder if I'm the only one who gets sick of threads like these. I you find yourself obsessing about poseurs might be one. If you don't care what others are doing and you mind your own business then great. Who cares?!?!

Draconysius · 03-31-2007, 09:44 AM

Eh... I get tired of having to answer these, but I dunno... I kind of feel it's my duty to set people straight on something I've dedicated my life to.

cradle · 03-31-2007, 10:03 AM

I agree, man.
I had to explain a lot of it last night to my friend, even though I really didn't feel like typing it. D:
haha

killer_asian_Dax · 03-31-2007, 10:27 AM

Since we all seem to more or less agree on what real goth -v- a poseur is, why has there been this much discussion on it? I feel this is kind of over now.

But thats just me.

Valerius · 03-31-2007, 10:43 AM

Well, there are people out there who are fresh to the scene. They either want to clarify what everyone else thinks what a real goth versus a poseur is, so they ask. Another possibility would be that they're just bored and want to start a topic for discussion.

badteccy · 03-31-2007, 11:17 AM

I really feel like it's about the music and yes, the image...mainly music though. I'm talkin' about bands like Bauhaus, Sex Gang Children, Siouxsie and the Banshees, etc.
Really now, tripp pants and an oversized Dimmu Borgir (is that how it's spelled even?) shirt is not the "gothic style". I mean, their are several variations of it, but I think most of all ya'll can pick 'em out.

darkness before dawn · 03-31-2007, 11:54 AM

I've noticed in the 17 years I've been in the punk and goth community where I live, it's always the people who dress to the hilt, start going to the bars in the scene for a few months and then drop out that are the biggest poseurs who don't know shit about music.

Godslayer Jillian · 03-31-2007, 03:14 PM

Real goths have sex with Specimen or London After Midnight on the background while reciting The Raven.
Everyone else is a P0hZuR!

Clockwork · 03-31-2007, 06:01 PM

This will be debated until the end of time unless it's set in stone. Can we at least sticky the definition we seem to be agreeing upon? Do something with it, at least.

Temptation · 03-31-2007, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draconysius

A poseur...writes poetry in a Shakespearian style.

Hey, *twiddles thumbs* I like Shakespearian style poetry...
Mainly because most people think he's talking about a girl in his poems and it'/s actually a guy. It's funny. XD

Hmmmm, Poseur is a person who acts a certain way,dresses a certain way, and likes certain music to be accepted by his/her peers. That can fit to anyone not just to people trying to be goth.

Tin_Lizzie · 04-01-2007, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Temptation

Hey, *twiddles thumbs* I like Shakespearian style poetry...

I like to read Shakespeare, but the only time I write in his style is to prove that I can do it. Most people can only pull off "renfest" speech, which is rather painful to the ear.

c130 · 04-01-2007, 03:24 AM

Well a poser is someone who does something just for the status or appearance. So there's likely no way to tell between someone who's a goth and someone who's a poser just by looking at them (unless they're a REALLY obvious poser). The poser would have all the stereotypes in their head, or wouldn't even be interested in any part of goth other than looking like it. The real goth would be gothic from the soul outwards.

Dancing_in_rain · 04-01-2007, 12:31 PM

Well, I'm going to have to say this...
If goth is partially about being true to yourself, about knowing who you follow and what you think and being comfortable with it, shoudl you not be allowed not to "conform" to what is considered goth? I dress in black, I have a relatively morbid sense of humour, I like the dark side of life etc...
I also like Slipknot, Evanescence, Marilyn Manson, The Dresden Dolls, Bauhaus, The Cure, Joy Division, The GazettE, and many many others, both "goth" and "not goth". So am I any less or any more goth? One of the reasons I am attracted to the goth lifestyle is because most of the goths I know are very open-minded and are willing to experiment.

Catch · 04-01-2007, 01:08 PM

I wouldn't have the first clue as to what a "real goth" is, (Except, a band of people associated with the Guals and Druids during the bronze age that tried taking over eastern and western europe, but were easily over thrown by the grecko-romans because their population was sparse amonst the many regions and then after the romans took over they divided the people into new groups, giving them names, such as: Viso Goths.) because I'm a punker. That's right. I'm a poseur and you have all been had.

raggedyanne · 04-01-2007, 02:07 PM

I've been accused of being a poser, but I think that goth starts with 75% black clothes, 100% appreciation and acceptance of all types of people (except annoying ones), and a love of music that is not neccesarily in the top twenty. Oh, and you have to be breathing. No zombie goths please, they smell.