Goth...

[Rae Ven Rae]

I agree with Graveyard Crow labeling is encapsulating a bunch of people who are individualistic beside their common interests...

[Rae Ven Rae]

PS--believe me, where I grew up it was NOT impressive to be Goth...

[KontanKarite]

Originally Posted by Apathy's_Child

Well, there you have the Spooky Kids and the "im a satanist lol fear mah dark soul" sort of people. I'd say the question that is better asked is "are you into the staples of gothic subculture, i.e. music, literature and fashion?"

That's the thing though. The word "goth" has been stolen in a sense. There are facts that are ignored and the truth is lost about "goth".

Because you are STILL leaving that question up to interpretation of what goth is.

Check it out. EX: "Yes, I love the gothic staples of goth such as Slipknot, RL Stein, and my big baggy black tripp pants."

[Rae Ven Rae]

The word Goth is like the "N" word -- it only has power of you if you allow it -- it is simply a word. We can have common interests, but in the end, we define ourselves...

[KontanKarite]

Originally Posted by Rae Ven Rae

PS--believe me, where I grew up it was NOT impressive to be Goth...

You're right. But the word "goth" gives you a reaction of any sort despite it being "cool" or bad in any way. It's just become a power word, really.

[Rae Ven Rae]

yeah but i didn't use it cause I didn't even know what goth was for years--I was usually just called that creepy Satanic black kid...

[KontanKarite]

And I was usually called that weird kid who dresses all in black all the time and is a druggie.

Oddly enough, I had a mansonite in school and people could tell we were nothing alike.

[Rae Ven Rae]

somebody even asked asked if I was a witch or even a...what is it--those religious fanatics who dress in black who wore long skirts (I was into skirts..)

[Rae Ven Rae]

when I finally heard the term GOTH I was like OH KEWL a NAME...LOL

[Apathy's_Child]

Originally Posted by KontanKarite

That's the thing though. The word "goth" has been stolen in a sense. There are facts that are ignored and the truth is lost about "goth".

Because you are STILL leaving that question up to interpretation of what goth is.

Check it out. EX: "Yes, I love the gothic staples of goth such as Slipknot, RL Stein, and my big baggy black tripp pants."

A certain amount of snobbery is a good thing. Anyone who thinks RL Stein is literature (in the sense of being literary and dealing with intelligent themes, before anyone tells me it's a book and therefore literature) is an idiot. Since I see goth AT ITS BEST as a subculture firmly grounded in intellectualism, departures from that core are to me mere spin-offs followed by people who feel the need to bastardize a subculture by dumbing it down.

I get the gist though - it's all subjective. All we have are our opinions and certain opinions of others that may ring true.

[Rae Ven Rae]

I can appreciate that, although I disagree with some aspects of that.

I don't think hyper eliitism is good although having standards is okay...the lines do at times, get blurred...

That said Fred, I am off, the hubby has brought forth sustenance and I will go and be with...hehehe...

ciao guys!

[Godslayer Jillian]

In two words, I believe I can finally tell what Goth is and everyone can be happy with it.

Q: What is goth?
A: A style.

There. It's undeniable. It's simplicity fuckin' owns. It implies it's a musical style, and still it leaves room for the aesthetic. It takes consideration of the fact that there must be a certain je ne sais quoi behind the music, because the styles between The Cruxshadows, Bauhaus, and Voltaire are too different for it just to be a "music genre".
If someone asks "Can't you elaborate?" You say "Not really, no. Wanna know what's goth? There's the definition. Wanna understand what's goth? Listen to the music (which is markedly defined already), go to a gothic club, be sure it has at least two guys with deathawks and five guys with fishnets so you know they're not ripping you off with an EBM dancefloor or a wannabe vampire grotto, and you'll understand what's goth."

[KontanKarite]

Jillian wins the internets.

Have I told you that I love you lately, Jillian?

I mean that. I really do.

[Godslayer Jillian]

That's because I'm already a college guy.
A college guy with a semi-hawk and a goatee, majoring in philosophy, political science, and English.
I'm a hot-ass scholarly motherfucker.*


*Disclaimer: Godslayer Jillian has never really fucked someone's mother.

[KontanKarite]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

That's because I'm already a college guy.
A college guy with a semi-hawk and a goatee, majoring in philosophy, political science, and English.
I'm a hot-ass scholarly motherfucker.*


*Disclaimer: Godslayer Jillian has never really fucked someone's mother.

Hell, I like you. Feel free to fuck my mother. Gods knows you wont be swinging my way any time soon, but at least she can tell me how good it was.

[Rae Ven Rae]

what the HELL is a death hawk -- I have been out of the scene too long -- mommy hood does that...

[Godslayer Jillian]

It's a teased up 'hawk.
While the mohawk is about as wide as a duct tape strip, the deathawk is about as wide as the distance between one's pupils or a little wider.
It's crimped, sprayed up, teased, and sometimes crimped again.
Look for Johnny Slut on Google, or to to Haunted's profile pic.

[Rae Ven Rae]

Ohhhhhhhh...seen those at my last show...roflmao...interesting crowd too--don't ask, I want you to respect me in the morning...

[Opteron_Man]

looks like i'm goth.

[DeathChii]

I think we just need a new word.
Goth = Someone who likes goth music
NEW WORD = Someone who is part of (what we know as the 'goth') subculture.

[TopHaggardDoll]

Or we could just call them Goth.

I believe Goth in itself is a subculture that has it's hands in everything. In music, literature, aesthetic, architecture etc. I believe there are even some personality traits that go along with it.

We all know what it is, we all know what it sounds like and we all know what it looks like. I think a person has to connect with or appreciate most of the aspects of this subculture in a way, to be considered Goth.

Why be ashamed of the word if it is what you are!?...No, it doesn't describe ALL of you but it's a quickfire way for people to get some idea of what you're about.

[Corpsey]

A style with a Clique-like name, often falsely connected to people with thuggish tendancies.

There's my slightly elabourated description.

I can't blame people for their ignorance, so I try to clarify the bad vibe about Goth a little bit. If people don't enjoy the aesthetic, then they're hardly likely to search out knowledge on it.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by TopHaggardDoll

I believe Goth in itself is a subculture that has it's hands in everything. In music, literature, aesthetic, architecture etc.

Never talk about the architecture as part of the gothic subculture just because they have the same name!
I hate that.
There's this dipshit in another forum that believes (without justification) that he's better than me and that he's right about 'gothic' and that it is a millennary culture that began like a civilization and has encompassed such things like literature, architecture, painting, and all that shit.
If the architecture is part of the gothic subculture, name me one goth that has designed a cathedral.

[Death_Mask]

A style of music, literature, architecture and fashion. For some people it has become a lifestyle and some might go as far as to say it’s a state of mind. For me it’s a subculture were I have similar interests as other people in music and clothing. This doesn’t mean we’re all the same, it just means we all like a few things and more often than not “dark” things.

This, of course, is my opinion on Goth. But I’m sure we all agree that there is a lot of misunderstandings on Goth and what it is and isn’t.

[Apathy's_Child]

Originally Posted by Rae Ven Rae

I can appreciate that, although I disagree with some aspects of that.

I don't think hyper eliitism is good although having standards is okay...the lines do at times, get blurred...

I do! Not hyper-elitism in terms of gothiness, music or beliefs. But when you're talking about intelligence I think we need to see more of it.

Keeping yourself informed and being aware that there are more ideas out there than you can iamgine is very important IMO. To me art is the language of the soul and if you don't appreciate it in some form, whether it's music, literature, philosophy (yes, I consider philosophy an art - art is creation of ideas made manifest), that goes beyond the mainstream then you're only half-alive, the thinking part of your brain might as well be dead. I think art is the easiest way to expand your mind but not the only way, I know a guy who doesn't read much but when you sit around and smoke a butt he talks about society and why people do the things they do in a way that's more insightful than half the sociological studies I've read. Thinking about things on a higher level than you'll find in mainstream culture is a central part of evolution, and god knows we need it.

Otherwise you get people who never listen to anything other than bad pop music and read nothing but magazines. The kind of people who think reality TV is the pinnacle of culture, Quentin Tarantino makes the deepest films ever and go around running their mouths about how Bush started the Iraq War for oil but can tell you nothing else about it and can't elaborate on their reasoning. Unless you have problems that make learning difficult stupidity is a choice, and since it's a stupid one I don't respect it.