Rant Thread II

[Alan]

Seeing how the first hints at modern anatomy and medicine weren't "let's study the structure of the cell wall" and "we must improve the hygienic conditions of surgery"; and more "the female is created by an imbalance of humours during the gestation period" and "hysteric patients must be cured by channeling the erratic sexuality they cannot control (i.e. give them a good dicking)"; I'd say that your book has more validity than you give it credit.

[Grausamkeit]

Jill is right. Read the history. Or hell, just study the idiocy that was the Victorian Era!

[Saya]

To be fair to Val that text book isn't the greatest, I like that it took a transnationalist stance (most other text books in the WS department, at least in the courses I've taken so far, are more American or Euro centric) but not a whole lot of context is given for the excerpts and articles it has.

In the Feminist Theory text book there's an awesome excerpt from The Myth Of The Vaginal Orgasm by Anne Koedt that focuses on medical views of female sexuality that is absolutely appalling (no clit stimulation needed! If you can't orgasm from penetration alone, you're frigid! You should get surgery to move your clit down lower to your vag so you can orgasm through penetration alone).

The Victorian stuff was even more scary, it used to be believed that a child could only be produced if the woman orgasm, so if a woman was rraped and consequently got pregnant, she enjoyed it and she's a liar. There was also the medical theory that the vagina is a "quivering sheath" that the woman needs to hold it still for penetration, therefore a single man wouldn't be able to force penetration, it was gang **** or it was consensual.

Also for midwifery, its true. A lot of people like to shit on them as a hippy dippy thing but honestly a lot of women don't need serious medical intervention for giving birth, legislating midwifery would cut down on overcrowding in hospitals as those who can have healthy babies at home or a midwifery centre don't have to bother the hospitals. Newfoundland has a horrific C-section rate primarily because doctors want to get through birthing as quickly as possible and move on to the next patient.

I looked into being a midwife, but its more schooling than being a nurse.

[Grausamkeit]

Sol, I'm sorry hun. Nothing is forever, love. Not the good and especially not the bad!

*HUGZ*

[Acharis]

Originally Posted by Saya

Also for midwifery, its true. A lot of people like to shit on them as a hippy dippy thing but honestly a lot of women don't need serious medical intervention for giving birth, legislating midwifery would cut down on overcrowding in hospitals as those who can have healthy babies at home or a midwifery centre don't have to bother the hospitals. Newfoundland has a horrific C-section rate primarily because doctors want to get through birthing as quickly as possible and move on to the next patient.

I looked into being a midwife, but its more schooling than being a nurse.

True. My mother was a lay midwife in the 60s, and apparently the popularity of home-births and midwifery was a backlash against the control over womens bodies during birth by the overwhelmingly male doctors.

(I'm talking flat on the back, stirrups, compulsory enemas and genital shaving, being drugged out for jaws of life instead of being allowed to deliver... basically births were generally treated as medical emergencies even when they weren't, and the woman was allowed no dignity or control over her own body.)


Also it wasn't that a bunch of men decided to study medicine. It was that a bunch of people wanted to, and until very recently it was only the men that were allowed to gain that knowledge and power.

[Fruitbat]

Originally Posted by carakitty

I am probably two weeks away from flunking out of my current Vet Tech program. Because of one stupid class. Trying to decide if I'm going to tackle applying at Vet Clinics straight off the bat, or if taking a break and working a coffee shop or retail would be better for my mental state.

Had a brief chat with our Student Services councilor about the situation and she encouraged me to stay with the Vet field if that is what I enjoy, but going for a position in a Doggy Day Care or as a receptionist. I don't really want to do stuff like that.

I want to nurse the creatures. Yes, I truly love wiping snotty URI kitty faces and holding someone on my lap and spoon feeding them. We legally don't have to be certified in my state yet to hold a Technician position but people are working to change that and it probably will go into effect in a couple years.

In the mean time, I'm waiting to hear back from one of my instructors about if my assessment of my grade was accurate. There may be a miniscule shred of hope I can still cling to. One more quiz, then the final. But I don't think even if I totally ACE those that my grade will go from a 58% (last time I checked) to a 71%.

Thankfully my other class is holding steady, but that really doesn't matter. I must pass that problem class or I'm permanently kicked out of the program.

Sorry to hear this CK - can you retake the class?

MissC - hope your wrist gets better.

I hate cold weather.

[Valhalla]

Seeing how the first hints at modern anatomy and medicine weren't "let's study the structure of the cell wall" and "we must improve the hygienic conditions of surgery"; and more "the female is created by an imbalance of humours during the gestation period" and "hysteric patients must be cured by channeling the erratic sexuality they cannot control (i.e. give them a good dicking)"; I'd say that your book has more validity than you give it credit.

My question is why didn't it just say something like that. They actually said nothing about the advancement of medical knowledge. The point was that these scientists/doctors (read: these 'experts') took away status from the female healers. And yeah they were by no means experts, as enforced by the books emphasis marks, but it kind of skimmed over the whole thing and said nothing else about the doctors/healers/midwives.

And I can't stand all the little emphasis marks the book uses.

Originally Posted by Saya

To be fair to Val that text book isn't the greatest, I like that it took a transnationalist stance (most other text books in the WS department, at least in the courses I've taken so far, are more American or Euro centric) but not a whole lot of context is given for the excerpts and articles it has.

You're right there. It also doesn't like to back up, or give context to, a lot of the points it makes. It just makes these vague comments then I can either fill in the blank with reasoning, or I can't. I think I'm just supposed to agree with what it says based on the fact that it said it. I think one of the big problems is that it's supposed to introduce the later readings, but does it over pages and pages. Then after I read what the chapter itself says I get to the readings that are better written and supposed to back up it's points. It might have done better to break up the chapter and put the relevant bits in front of the different section readings.

In the Feminist Theory text book there's an awesome excerpt from The Myth Of The Vaginal Orgasm by Anne Koedt that focuses on medical views of female sexuality that is absolutely appalling (no clit stimulation needed! If you can't orgasm from penetration alone, you're frigid! You should get surgery to move your clit down lower to your vag so you can orgasm through penetration alone).

The Victorian stuff was even more scary, it used to be believed that a child could only be produced if the woman orgasm, so if a woman was rraped and consequently got pregnant, she enjoyed it and she's a liar. There was also the medical theory that the vagina is a "quivering sheath" that the woman needs to hold it still for penetration, therefore a single man wouldn't be able to force penetration, it was gang **** or it was consensual.

Also for midwifery, its true. A lot of people like to shit on them as a hippy dippy thing but honestly a lot of women don't need serious medical intervention for giving birth, legislating midwifery would cut down on overcrowding in hospitals as those who can have healthy babies at home or a midwifery centre don't have to bother the hospitals. Newfoundland has a horrific C-section rate primarily because doctors want to get through birthing as quickly as possible and move on to the next patient.

I looked into being a midwife, but its more schooling than being a nurse.

That sounds terrible. Interesting, but terrible. I thought the view was that women didn't orgasm anyway, but that's probably worse since it implied most women were 'broken' or 'wrong'

But see that sounds so much more interesting than what I'm reading. The last thing I read from the book was that text books/people shouldn't say that menstruation is wasteful. Even though I've always thought it was. I mean the body prepares to have a baby, the woman doesn't get pregnant, so it disposes of it's preparations. I never thought of it as being a sexist male way to make my body seem inferior. So after I read that bit I started trying to come up with a way to explain it without using sheds, wastes, disposes, loses, or any other word that could sound negative. Don't think I can do it.

I have nothing against midwifery. I know a woman who chose to have her baby delivered by one, at her house. It was really interesting to hear her talk about it, since I've never met another person (who has brought up) having her baby birthed by a midwife. I didn't even know we had a midwife school.

/Was supposed to get ready 10 minutes ago. Hopes all this was coherent.

[Solumina]

I have this stiff pain in my neck that just will not go away, most likely from sleeping oddly and/or tossing about so much before falling asleep.

[Saya]

Originally Posted by Valhalla

But see that sounds so much more interesting than what I'm reading. The last thing I read from the book was that text books/people shouldn't say that menstruation is wasteful. Even though I've always thought it was. I mean the body prepares to have a baby, the woman doesn't get pregnant, so it disposes of it's preparations. I never thought of it as being a sexist male way to make my body seem inferior. So after I read that bit I started trying to come up with a way to explain it without using sheds, wastes, disposes, loses, or any other word that could sound negative. Don't think I can do it.

Ha, that's a point that we keep coming back to in later classes. Part of it is how linguistics shape how we think of ourselves, and part is he curious trend of women's bodies being dynamic and life giving, but we equate "feminine" with wastefulness, death, destruction, while we equate "masculine" with dynamic, life, energy, and even in fields like medicine and science which are supposed to be objective, our sexism leaks out in our language.

Even for traits that we equate with "feminine", love, empathy, selflessness, its debatable whether we give "feminine" these traits in an effort to enforce patriarchy on women (you're supposed to be a selfless mother, that's your point in life!) or if we view those traits as unmanly and weak because women have claimed them well.

I should also point out that the text is an anthology of interesting articles about feminism and women's studies and not necessarily presented as absolute truth. Our prof made us write journal entries every week on our readings that required a bit of research that provided more context, so that was helpful.

[Delkaetre]

Originally Posted by Alan

The worst part is I can't do shit about it, because I lied to him that I was almost done with the translation.
I didn't know his stories would be this bad! I didn't know!!

Tell him you were waiting to the end, in case he pulled a last minute miracle out of his ass. And, having finished reading and nearly finished the translation, it is now fantastically apparent that he's a Gary Sue writing hack.


My whine of the day is this:
I managed to trip on perfectly flat ground, skinning the entirety of one kneecap (really, the whole front of the knee. It's like a three inch square of missing flesh) and getting a swollen lump on my wrist (which is tender as fuck and feels bruisey even when I rest a cold thing on it to lower the swelling), and wrecking one of my last good pairs of tights. Seeing this, two women came to help - both tourists. Several native Londoners walked right on by the crying, bleeding young woman on the pavement.

I am reminded of just how much I hate pain and discomfort, and that London is full of utter twunts despite being an otherwise delightful city, and that now I'll have to go spend money on expensive tights because no other kinds last or fit properly.

Man, fuck the two hours since leaving the gym today. Everything was fine till then.

[Catch]

Well today I got an e-mail to recover my password. I changed my password and added a fake e-mail and somehow was invited back via my old e-mail that wasn't even the last active e-mail on gothic.net.

I don't really feel big ranting is necessary.

[Valhalla]

Originally Posted by Saya

Ha, that's a point that we keep coming back to in later classes. Part of it is how linguistics shape how we think of ourselves, and part is he curious trend of women's bodies being dynamic and life giving, but we equate "feminine" with wastefulness, death, destruction, while we equate "masculine" with dynamic, life, energy, and even in fields like medicine and science which are supposed to be objective, our sexism leaks out in our language.

Even for traits that we equate with "feminine", love, empathy, selflessness, its debatable whether we give "feminine" these traits in an effort to enforce patriarchy on women (you're supposed to be a selfless mother, that's your point in life!) or if we view those traits as unmanly and weak because women have claimed them well.

I should also point out that the text is an anthology of interesting articles about feminism and women's studies and not necessarily presented as absolute truth. Our prof made us write journal entries every week on our readings that required a bit of research that provided more context, so that was helpful.

Wait, do we equate feminine with death, destruction, waste, etc, because of the words used to describe menstruation?

The part I bolded is one of the issues I find to be the most interesting. The way the gender norms that were enforced to confine women to the motherly role ended up confining men as well. I never thought about if women 'claiming them well' was a bigger factor than the enforcement of those traits. It's something to research. Off topic but related, there's hardly any research done specifically on eating disorders in men. I assume since being focused on being thin is seen as primarily a female phenomena people don't think about men wanting to be thin. I tried to do a paper relating to it a couple years ago but couldn't find enough research.

I've realized what my biggest problem is when it comes to the course. I've always thought of myself somewhat as a feminist, or I guess a humanist. Whatever you want to call a person who'll rage at others for their sexism, and homophobia, and general close minded asshole opinions. But I'm having a hard time getting behind how the book is lifting up rocks to find misogyny when there's SO MUCH OF IT elsewhere. It's important to identify every trace of misogyny, but I find things like the wage disparity between minority women and the rest of the world more important to get informed about than the implications of calling the old tissue of uterine lining waste.

I think I understand why it upsets people. It implies the female body is doing something wrong, and the actions of the females reproductive parts is described to fit the female role, and less than that of the males. But at the same time the female body doesn't usually get pregnant. So the lining gets removed, like waste. It still makes sense to me why it would be described that way, and it doesn't make me outraged. I guess I just feel there are worse things out there I can be mad about.

I'm willing to admit what I see as the big issues could stem from the 'smaller issues'. I suppose it's because I don't directly see the effects.

I actually want to research so much of this. There was a line in the chapter about how eunuchs comprised a third gender, I had no idea about that. I think there's a reading on it coming up.

[Saya]

Originally Posted by Valhalla

Wait, do we equate feminine with death, destruction, waste, etc, because of the words used to describe menstruation?

No, I mean we speak of female bodies in a way that we have for a long time. Medicine didn't invent those attitudes, its just that medicine isn't completely free from those attitudes.

The part I bolded is one of the issues I find to be the most interesting. The way the gender norms that were enforced to confine women to the motherly role ended up confining men as well. I never thought about if women 'claiming them well' was a bigger factor than the enforcement of those traits. It's something to research. Off topic but related, there's hardly any research done specifically on eating disorders in men. I assume since being focused on being thin is seen as primarily a female phenomena people don't think about men wanting to be thin. I tried to do a paper relating to it a couple years ago but couldn't find enough research.

Patriarchal women have a tendency to uphold gender essentialism (the notion that biology is destiny, if you will, we are this way because we were born with these genitals women and no one can change it.) There are anti-feminist women who claim it is our destiny and our duty to be feminine, to be heterosexual and to be mothers. And it doesn't even have to be quite that extreme or conscious, I know mothers who feel so invested in being a mother that they are overprotective of their children, even against their partners, because men naturally aren't as nurturing as women are. A lot of non-feminist friends of mine also like to say negative things about men as if all men are like it (pigs, distant, lazy, jealous, etc). Now the stay at home mom in a patriarchal society is still at a disadvantage, she has no income of her own, and it'll be harder for her to get a job if she returns to the workforce after years of absense, or if there is a divorce. Economically she depends on the good graces of her husband. If a woman chooses to be a housewife and mother because she feels obligated to and not because it was a free, conscious choice, she can become bitter against her husband without really knowing why and become controlling over children and the house.

I've realized what my biggest problem is when it comes to the course. I've always thought of myself somewhat as a feminist, or I guess a humanist. Whatever you want to call a person who'll rage at others for their sexism, and homophobia, and general close minded asshole opinions. But I'm having a hard time getting behind how the book is lifting up rocks to find misogyny when there's SO MUCH OF IT elsewhere. It's important to identify every trace of misogyny, but I find things like the wage disparity between minority women and the rest of the world more important to get informed about than the implications of calling the old tissue of uterine lining waste.

Oh, I agree, no one is going to march against medical language, and this is my huge misgiving over mainstream, white feminism (Women CEOs aren't paid as much as men CEOs! Meanwhile, Native women are missing and murdered and no one cares.) I just viewed that chapter as a thought exercise, the book gets more interesting and intense as it goes along, like I do believe its that book that talks about Our Bodies, Ourselves, which is a book all about female health and bodies written by American women, and its a good book, but it also talks about Egyptian feminists writing their own version because white Western woman language isn't appropriate for them.

I actually want to research so much of this. There was a line in the chapter about how eunuchs comprised a third gender, I had no idea about that. I think there's a reading on it coming up.

Gender fluidity and trans* issues are a beloved topic of mine, that book doesn't talk about it enough IMO. Lemme know if you want any internet resources about it!

[Murder.Of.Crows]

Originally Posted by Saya

Gender fluidity and trans* issues are a beloved topic of mine, that book doesn't talk about it enough IMO. Lemme know if you want any internet resources about it!

Oh, oh me! I want to read internet resources!

[Saya]

Do you mind if I slip in humour blogs?

[Murder.Of.Crows]

Originally Posted by Saya

Do you mind if I slip in humour blogs?

Not at all, actually I would love that.

[Saya]

The basics: http://tranarchism.com/trans-basics/

I really like genderfork: http://genderfork.com/

I also really love Ivan Coyote: http://www.xtra.ca/public/Vancouver/...%20Coyote.aspx

And not an internet resource, but if you can find things to read by Judith Butler, specifically Undoing Gender, she's good and she's the one who got me thinking about gender fluidity.

Also I just found this today and it makes me happy: http://fyeahnon-binaryseahorse.tumblr.com/

Other handy blogs are http://fuckyeahgenderstudies.tumblr.com/ and http://projectqueer.tumblr.com/

[Murder.Of.Crows]

So much reading tonight. We'll, I'm going to get some cigarettes and a monster. Then probably read until my eyes are bleeding and i'm leaning out the bedroom window rattling my fist at all of those injustices.

[Saya]

That's my routine!

[Versus]

Judith Butler gives me a fucking headache.

[Jaye Jang]

I have the flu. I'm sick and tired of being tired and sick. Had to spend Goth Day moping around the house and feeling sorry for myself because I was too sick to go anywhere and too tired to do anything. It was also NMTD (National Medical Typist's Day) and I missed going to the annual National MT Day luncheon at work (read that free food), because I had to call in sick . Bummer.

[honeythorn]

I have turned into a one woman snot factory for no apparant reason

[Delkaetre]

My knee still hasn't scabbed over from the fall yesterday. It's still weeping yellowish fluid, which means I can't wear any kind of fabric on my legs without it attempting to scab into the fabric. I tried wearing a bandage over it today, and that... ended up with the bandage half embedded in scabbing at the edges, damp from flesh at the middle. That was painful to remove.

I think the heat and humidity aren't helping either, but seriously. It's been more than 24 hours. Just dry up and scab, you fucker. I want the use of me knee back for this weekend.

[Solumina]

Fuck the sun, we were getting along so well and now I'm all neon pink and in lots of pain

[Jaye Jang]

Originally Posted by Delkaetre

My knee still hasn't scabbed over from the fall yesterday. It's still weeping yellowish fluid, which means I can't wear any kind of fabric on my legs without it attempting to scab into the fabric. I tried wearing a bandage over it today, and that... ended up with the bandage half embedded in scabbing at the edges, damp from flesh at the middle. That was painful to remove.

I think the heat and humidity aren't helping either, but seriously. It's been more than 24 hours. Just dry up and scab, you fucker. I want the use of me knee back for this weekend.

Have you tried using Telfa pads and paper tape? That way you could cover it without the bandage sticking.