Creationist Scum

[HumanePain]

Originally Posted by x-deviant-x

ok you've yet to say one intelligent thing through this entire thread. so its obvious i'm speaking to a child here.

when you're capable of presenting a real debate let me know.

Once you issue a personal attack like above, you forfeit any respect from others.

(Sits back to watch the fireworks.)

[x-deviant-x]

no, jillian, you were a know-it-all 3 years ago and you're a know-it-all now. you've become the TStone of this board in his and all the others absence.

Originally Posted by HumanePain

Once you issue a personal attack like above, you forfeit any respect from others.

Would that be before or after his attacks on me?

[HumanePain]

Originally Posted by x-deviant-x

Would that be before or after his attacks on me?

Critical thinking applied to what was a heated debate probing the issue behind the original rant was not an attack on you personally, but an "attack" (actually a critical question and expose of false logic) on your earlier comments.

I would suggest writing fiction for you, not to imply that your observations and opinions are fiction, but that it will help you in accepting critiques of your ideas and writing. Then REAL communication and critical thinking can take place to the benefit of all.

When logic and reasoning are applied to my posts by others, I know when to agree and accept that I held a previously erroneous opinion.

If you are after the truth, then you will accept the result of reasoning regardless of its impact to your ego or opinions or whatever. Truth is truth, logic is logic, and emotions have no place in a reasoning exchange seeking truth.

Emotions DO have a place in human living, but in understanding the physical world (especially on the topic of evolution), reasoning is the tool of science.

By the way, I am a follower of Jesus, and I accept the evidence of evolution.
The two are not mutually exclusive.

[x-deviant-x]

nothing wrong with that. i do write fiction, actually, when i have the time, which is rare these days. i can accept constructive criticism very easily, and welcome it.

but in my own defense, i didn't attack him until after he attacked me. everything i stated in my posts was immediately stupid and idiotic according to him, before he bothered to question why. he accused me of trying to claim creationism as a form of science, when i never said anything to that effect. Then threw asinine comments and sarcasm at anything i said, and misconstrued all of it. I don't have patience for displays of ignorance like that.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by x-deviant-x

but in my own defense, i didn't attack him until after he attacked me.

Being sarcastic and saying that invisible angels push you down is not attacking you; it's using your own logic against you.
Why are you so offended by that comment of mine?
Can you prove invisible angels don't push you down? What makes creationism more valid than my own theory just now? Is it merely that more people believe it?
I demand answers. Don't you dare go off on a tangent this time and let's go back to my initial response.

[x-deviant-x]

ok fine. your initial response is retarded. there's no logic behind it. strangely enough though, it does sound similar to some ancient creation myths.

it's not an example of using my own logic against me, when you don't know what my logic is.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Your logic is that creationism and evolution are equally valid because evolution cannot be rendered entirely infallible (nor can any other piece of science) and that creationism cannot be disproven.
The exact same logic went to my argument. That invisible angels are pushing you down cannot be disproven.
Is this not your logic?

[x-deviant-x]

No. Because, we know beyond reasonable doubt that gravity exists. We can simulate it in labs and physically witness its effects in our environment. There's no significant reason to explore other means of why things stay where we place them. The same can't be said about evolution or creationism.

I think that in order to accept creationism as a viable possibility you have to first be able to separate it from its religious connotations.

I also think that you think that I'm trying to put the idea of creationism in place of evolution, which I'm not doing. I believe in evolution. However, unlike you, I can see where creationism or intelligent design could easily factor into the equation. It's not an idea that I just pulled out of my ass, like you did with your invisible angels. This is something that I've spent a huge portion of my life exploring, in order to come to these conclusions. Its not something I read somewhere and thought it sounded cool so I went with it. There is logic behind my beliefs whether you can see it or not.

_

[Godslayer Jillian]

You do realize that what you're saying, namely, that intelligent design and evolution can coexist, is not your creation, right?
Hell, much of intelligent design is that: that evolution happened but by a guided hand. Maybe I just misunderstood you and you don't actually feel proud believing you created a new perspective when tens of millions of Americans believe the same, or maybe you do. Either way, I used to believe something like that until I realized putting God into the equation is entirely baseless and arbitrary.

And by the way, it is entirely arbitrary also that you believe it is beyond reasonable doubt that gravity exists, but you don't believe the same for evolution.
We have observed evolution multiple times under both controlled laboratory conditions and in nature!
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...fa3a938312f9bc

[x-deviant-x]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

You do realize that what you're saying, namely, that intelligent design and evolution can coexist, is not your creation, right?

Of course not. This would be silly, and pretty arrogant.

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Either way, I used to believe something like that until I realized putting God into the equation is entirely baseless and arbitrary.

That right there is your problem; you keep trying to put God in it. God has nothing to do with it. Only in a Christian or [insert religion of choice here] mind does god play a factor in creationism.

You're going by the book definition of creationism. God created the universe; God created the world and the oceans and all the plants and animals and then made man from clay and woman from his rib. This is not what I'm referring to when I say creationism.

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

And by the way, it is entirely arbitrary also that you believe it is beyond reasonable doubt that gravity exists, but you don't believe the same for evolution.

No, it isn't.

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

We have observed evolution multiple times under both controlled laboratory conditions and in nature!

No, you haven't.

You've observed what could be considered a small step in the greater process of evolution, more commonly considered MICROevolution. Its not much different than breeding a pit bull with a german sheppard. Regardless of the outcome, it's still a dog. Just as regardless of the outcome of your fruit flies, it's still a fruit fly. It's not suddenly a bumble bee or mosquito, now is it?

No one has ever witnessed such a thing, because by the very definition of evolution, as it is generally viewed, it takes eons to happen. We don't live that long, unfortunately. Nor do we have any known written or otherwise documented evidence of it having taken place. We accept it in the larger scheme of things because, overall, it makes sense, and fossilized evidence provides support for it making sense. It is much easier to see in the animal kingdom. After all, we find a lot more plant and animal fossils than we do humanoid fossils.

My point is, you're trying to make the concept of evolution the be-all and end-all of life, long before anyone has all the facts. Face it, everything anyone comes up with or believes in, has a chance of being proven wrong at some point in time, regardless of how much factual data there is to support it. This is what you've been saying through much of this thread, yet you're not applying the same logic to your own adamant beliefs in evolution being the ONLY answer.

I believe that it is POSSIBLE that a more intelligent species came before us, and for reasons of their own, helped push the evolution of modern man in the direction that resulted in where we are today. This by no means suggests that it was God or anything of a "divine" nature taking these actions. The term God itself, to me, is a way for small-minded people to explain things they simply don't understand.

I would go on but I really don't think you'll listen anyway. It's not for me to convince you of anything. I get consumed with trying to explain my views that it seems like I'm trying to convince someone of something that they just simply aren't willing to accept to begin with. I'm really not trying to convince you of anything. It makes no difference to me what you believe and what you don't.

After a while it becomes as frustrating as trying to explain to a christian that dinosaurs really did exist, and that yes, there really are suns and planets and entire solar systems out there beyond the clouds. All the stars you see in the sky aren't tiny pin-points of light that God put up there fo us to see at night. Believe it or not one of my ex's really honestly believed that, and there was no way in hell I was ever going to convince him that other planets existed. So be it.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Dude, you do know that "microevolution" and "macroevolution" are two bullshit terms created by CHRISTIANS to try and save face, right?
The ideas of microevolution and macroevolution have no scientific value whatsoever. Evolution is evolution. The two terms above are unscientific because they're merely based on what a human deems "big enough" or "small enough"

Therefore all that argument is really baseless when we're talking about evolution. Seriously man, just have a one-day session with an actual scientist instead of trying to come up with your own little theories.

[Godslayer Jillian]

EDIT: For more accurate information, Christians themselves didn't invent the terms, but they made up the dichotomy of microevolution =/= macroevolution which the above poster is using.
Philipchenko would have agreed that 'microevolution' proves evolution, so why are you ****** his theory with Young Earth rhetoric?

[PortraitOfSanity]

My uncle believes that the dinosaurs went extinct because they wouldn't fit onto Noah's Arc.


True story.

[Saya]

Man, I used to know a girl who thought dinosaurs didn't exist, its a conspiracy.

[alyroi360]

Wait, who really knows how big Noah's Ark really was? If there was proof that it existed, I'd believe it. If not, let's stick to meteor showers, I guess... or maybe they all ate eachother!!! O_o

[Beneath the Shadows]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

But they don't. They don't teach you an astronomy class that mentions the Big Bang, the Triforce, and turtles all the way down, do they?

...turtles? What?

[Duane]

Originally Posted by Beneath the Shadows

...turtles? What?

Not just any kind of turtles, Sea Turtles, mate.

[(heartofflames)]

Frankly, I don't five a damn about the past. People can have their beliefs, and we can just stand aside and watch because there is no way to change how their minds think. In their eyes, we are just as crazy as we think they are, so there is really no point in being angry.

[viscus]

Originally Posted by Beneath the Shadows

...turtles? What?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtles_all_the_way_down

[HumanePain]

Originally Posted by (heartofflames)

Frankly, I don't five a damn about the past.

Knowing the Past helps us to avoid repeating mistakes in the present, and wiping out in the future.

Unfortunately, the ones who need to be reminded of the past most of all are presently playing the game of "Who has the biggest balls?" (Russia and the U.S.)
and are very likely going to repeat the mistakes of WWI, WWII and Vietnam.

[Catch]

Originally Posted by HumanePain

Knowing the Past helps us to avoid repeating mistakes in the present, and wiping out in the future.

Unfortunately, the ones who need to be reminded of the past most of all are presently playing the game of "Who has the biggest balls?" (Russia and the U.S.)
and are very likely going to repeat the mistakes of WWI, WWII and Vietnam.

That makes a lot of sense. However, you'd think larger balls slow them down.

[MollyMac]

No, bigger nukes slow them down.

A weapon made solely not never have to be used.

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by x-deviant-x

I believe that it is POSSIBLE that a more intelligent species came before us, and for reasons of their own, helped push the evolution of modern man in the direction that resulted in where we are today. This by no means suggests that it was God or anything of a "divine" nature taking these actions. The term God itself, to me, is a way for small-minded people to explain things they simply don't understand.

Previous species? Then what made them? Another species?

How can something like that work without some form of god(s) at the begining of the cycle?

[Saya]

Originally Posted by Raptor

Previous species? Then what made them? Another species?

How can something like that work without some form of god(s) at the begining of the cycle?

You raise a good point. Where did the other species come from? Did the evolve? Did another species create them? Where did the original species come from?

I really don't see whats the problem people have with evolution. What we've seen in labs aside the fossil record provides a tremendous amount of evidence, my favorite example is when they found the fossil of the oldest known species of bird (Archaeopteryx), they thought it was a dinosaur called Procompsognathus. They only realized it when they saw in the rock surrounding the fossil imprints of feathers.

[James Most Bizzare]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

Dude, you do know that "microevolution" and "macroevolution" are two bullshit terms created by CHRISTIANS to try and save face, right?
The ideas of microevolution and macroevolution have no scientific value whatsoever. Evolution is evolution. The two terms above are unscientific because they're merely based on what a human deems "big enough" or "small enough"

Therefore all that argument is really baseless when we're talking about evolution. Seriously man, just have a one-day session with an actual scientist instead of trying to come up with your own little theories.

You really know this shit. Nice job, you've done considerable pwnage on this thread.

Even if one were to accept the bogus divisions of Macro and Micro evolution as being somehow valid, there is absolutely no reason why macroevolution couldn't exist in a world where microevolution exists. All it takes is more time for species to diverge. Scientists have even conducted experiments (sorry I can't post links due to my junior membership status) with fruit flies where they isolated groups of fruit flies and bred them within their respective groups to the point where they can no longer interbreed with the other group. They used fruit flies because of how quickly they reproduce, and thus witnessed speciation first hand.

Regardless of how life may have come into existence in the first place (which is a phenomenon called abiogenesis and is a completely different area of biological study from evolution) the fact that species change into other species over time is incontrovertable.