The Hate Club

Originally Posted by Albert Mond

I'd say I address about 50%. The other half is inherently crap. You seem to think hippies are some evil force of people who never do anything, which is nothing more than a typical misconception. The Hippy movement helped spread things like environmentalism and ideals of equal rights. While I can't prove to someone as stubborn as yourself that hippies and stoners weren't always the same thing, your naive assumption that you can by some miracle prove to me that all hippies were the worst of stoners and never did anything at all is just silly.

Dude. You need to just go burry your shame somewhere for a week or so.

If you had any sense of self worth you'd be pretty fucking ashamed by now.

The only movement started by hippies was drug culture. NOTHING you've mentioned was a part of the hippy movement. What Bizzaro reality do you collect your 'facts' from? It's almost too much bullshit for someone to read.

[gothicusmaximus]

Originally Posted by Albert Mond

I'd say I address about 50%. The other half is inherently crap. You seem to think hippies are some evil force of people who never do anything, which is nothing more than a typical misconception.

Way to absolutely hyperbolize everything I've said in an attempt to make it sound ridiculous. Did I ever say hippies were evil? No. Did I say they never did anything? No. What I actually said is there for you and everyone else to view.
If my misconception is typical, then I'm not arguing a unprecedented, unpopular viewpoint. Many people, including virtually all others who have posted in this thread, agree with me, so the burden of proof is on you.

The Hippy movement helped spread things like environmentalism and ideals of equal rights.

This is one of the most vague, obtuse assertions I've read on gnet. Luckily I'm so gifted that I can almost discern what you're saying-- do you mean that the inordinate amount of media attention paid to hippies had the fortunate side effect of raising public awareness of the environment, and that Hippies largely professed support for the civil rights movement and even sometimes showed up for protest events organized by other people? That's true, I never denied it.

While I can't prove to someone as stubborn as yourself that hippies and stoners weren't always the same thing, your naive assumption that you can by some miracle prove to me that all hippies were the worst of stoners and never did anything at all is just silly.

Again, the burden of proof isn't on me, but you probably shouldn't waste your time arguing against that last point given that I never made it.
Drugs were a vital part of hippie subculture, their role preceded and usually superseded any productive political motive.

[Albert Mond]

Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus

Way to absolutely hyperbolize everything I've said in an attempt to make it sound ridiculous. Did I ever say hippies were evil? No. Did I say they never did anything? No. What I actually said is there for you and everyone else to view.
If my misconception is typical, then I'm not arguing a unprecedented, unpopular viewpoint. Many people, including virtually all others who have posted in this thread, agree with me, so the burden of proof is on you.

It's typical of youths to think Goth is about wearing black and listening to Manson.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History...ovement#Legacy

Again, the burden of proof isn't on me, but you probably shouldn't waste your time arguing against that last point given that I never made it.
Drugs were a vital part of hippie subculture, their role preceded and usually superseded any productive political motive.

Drug culture was inherited by hippies. They didn't invent it and certainly were controlled by it.

[gothicusmaximus]

Originally Posted by Albert Mond

It's typical of youths to think Goth is about wearing black and listening to Manson.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History...ovement#Legacy

A good number of those things are uncited for a reason-- they're absolutely ridiculous. Public political demonstrations were invented by hippies? The sexual revolution wouldn't have happened without them?
The rest aren't really a result of the actions of hippies themselves, but rather of the mainstream cannibalizing their culture, and most are dubiously 'good' things anyway. Yes, without hippies, we probably wouldn't have a new age section in Barnes and Noble. Yippee Skipee.

Drug culture was inherited by hippies. They didn't invent it and certainly were controlled by it.

Okay... I agree. What does any of that have to do with the fact that drugs were a vital part of hippie culture?

[Albert Mond]

Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus

A good number of those things are uncited for a reason-- they're absolutely ridiculous. Public political demonstrations were invented by hippies? The sexual revolution wouldn't have happened without them?
The rest aren't really a result of the actions of hippies themselves, but rather of the mainstream cannibalizing their culture, and most are dubiously 'good' things anyway. Yes, without hippies, we probably wouldn't have a new age section in Barnes and Noble. Yippee Skipee.

It never said they were invented by hippies. It said they're more accepted, now. And they are. Next time you attend a demonstration and they send dogs out on you, you can say otherwise.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_..._1960s_America

Okay... I agree. What does any of that have to do with the fact that drugs were a vital part of hippie culture?

Drugs are a vital part of Youth culture, overall. While Hippy culture used a lot of drug-inspired imagery, it doesn't make them more drugged-up than any other subculture. Yes. They did loads of drugs. So did punks.

[Alarica]

What came first. the hippy or the punk?

[gothicusmaximus]

Originally Posted by Albert Mond

It never said they were invented by hippies. It said they're more accepted, now. And they are. Next time you attend a demonstration and they send dogs out on you, you can say otherwise.

I'm pretty sure it's safe to say that Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Rosa Parks, and movements that were actually focused on a political objective were more responsible for this change.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_..._1960s_America

Sweet! A wikipedia article about the sexual revolution that mentions hippies in passing one time.

Drugs are a vital part of Youth culture, overall. While Hippy culture used a lot of drug-inspired imagery, it doesn't make them more drugged-up than any other subculture. Yes. They did loads of drugs. So did punks.

How are you failing to grasp that experimenting with drugs was a crucial part of hippie subculture? My argument isn't that hippies did drugs in a brazen departure from what ordinary young men and women do. It's that drugs were a fucking staple of the hippie lifestyle.
See that Wikipedia article you linked? See how just above the legacy part to which you directed me, there's a section titled "DRUGS"? Now look up Punk. Now look up emo. Now look up goth.

[Albert Mond]

Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus

I'm pretty sure it's safe to say that Gandhi, Martin Luther King, Rosa Parks, and movements that were actually focused on a political objective were more responsible for this change.

You act as if Hippies distanced themselves from King.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protest...68#First_World

Sweet! A wikipedia article about the sexual revolution that mentions hippies in passing one time.

"Feminists, gay rights campaigners, hippies and many other political movements were all important components and facilitators of change."
Read better.

How are you failing to grasp that experimenting with drugs was a crucial part of hippie subculture? My argument isn't that hippies did drugs in a brazen departure from what ordinary young men and women do. It's that drugs were a fucking staple of the hippie lifestyle.
See that Wikipedia article you linked? See how just above the legacy part to which you directed me, there's a section titled "DRUGS"? Now look up Punk. Now look up emo. Now look up goth.

"Following in the well-worn footsteps of the Beats, most hippies also used cannabis (marijuana and hashish), considering it pleasurable and benign. Many enlarged their spiritual pharmacopeia to include hallucinogens such as LSD, psilocybin and mescaline."
For the love of God, read.

[gothicusmaximus]

Okay, I'm seriously done here if you're just going to invent ideas to argue against and make believe they're mine.

Originally Posted by Albert Mond

You act as if Hippies distanced themselves from King.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protest...68#First_World

No I fucking don't. I act as if Martin Luther King did more to legitimize the political protest than every hippie combined. I also act as if the support of dirty, burnt out hippies made society at large less willing to take King and his followers seriously.

"Feminists, gay rights campaigners, hippies and many other political movements were all important components and facilitators of change."
Read better.

Congratulations, you found the one mention of hippies I was talking about. The article goes on to illustrate other, more important factors, and makes it pretty clear that the sexual revolution would have happened regardless of whether hippies ever existed.

"Following in the well-worn footsteps of the Beats, most hippies also used cannabis (marijuana and hashish), considering it pleasurable and benign. Many enlarged their spiritual pharmacopeia to include hallucinogens such as LSD, psilocybin and mescaline."
For the love of God, read.

Can you teach me how? I am interested in learning your exotic, alternative method of reading which allows you to completely miss every point I totally belabor.
Explain how this in any way repudiates what I've said. Please.

[Pineapple_Juice]

Mmm, indeed this is quite a hateful thread.
I think everyone needs a nice refreshing glass of...well, you know.

[Albert Mond]

Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus

No I fucking don't. I act as if Martin Luther King did more to legitimize the political protest than every hippie combined. I also act as if the support of dirty, burnt out hippies made society at large less willing to take King and his followers seriously.

Well fucking get used to it. Hippies made up large portions of support on a lot of thing.

Congratulations, you found the one mention of hippies I was talking about. The article goes on to illustrate other, more important factors, and makes it pretty clear that the sexual revolution would have happened regardless of whether hippies ever existed.

And it could have happened if you took ANY participating party out of the equation (even feminists). Your argument that Hippies weren't solely responsible for it is true, but irrelevant. They were a major factor, and deserve credit.

Can you teach me how? I am interested in learning your exotic, alternative method of reading which allows you to completely miss every point I totally belabor.
Explain how this in any way repudiates what I've said. Please.

You make it out as if all hippies are filthy, constantly drugged do-nothings. The article says that most participated in drug use of some kind.

[Albert Mond]

Originally Posted by Pineapple_Juice

Mmm, indeed this is quite a hateful thread.
I think everyone needs a nice refreshing glass of...well, you know.

*Drinks of the sacred spiky fruit*

[AshtrayKitten]

Business as usual at the Hate Club. Join us for the next exciting episode, starting.... now:

[Albert Mond]

Originally Posted by AshtrayKitten

Business as usual at the Hate Club. Join us for the next exciting episode, starting.... now:

I hate you.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by gothicusmaximus

Hippies are the fucking opposite of cool. I'm actually surprised to hear you, as a young person with radical political beliefs, make that statement, Jillian, as the stigma associated with the burnt out, slothful, pathetic, intellectually stunted Hippie is one that greatly hampers today's youth movements. In fact, Hippies undermined themselves so frequently that other contemporary movements for political change often sincerely suspected them to be government plants designed to undermine the anti-war effort.

Well, we have to work out the semantics of what we're talking about. I hang around with real activist hippies, not the hippyish hipsters, if you know what I mean.
So it would have been better to say Yippie rather than Hippie. The Lower East Side, instead of Haight Ashbury. The Merry Pranksters, rather than Deadheads. Chicago '68, rather than Woodstock '69.

[Despanan]

My mentor in college was a Merry Prankster. That guy was fucking awesome.