Christian Goths

[Godslayer Jillian]

Well, for what it's worth, you all know I'm not Christian or Catholic, but I am straight-edge

[Sanctus Dei]

Ya know, I'm eating a Carmel Reese's Cup right now... and it's damn near sacrilicious...

[Godslayer Jillian]

The Ferrero Rocher chocolates are unholy delicious

[TheKorovaMilkbar]

I feel like this discussion went down the toilet after I made my last post. Bunnicula, you might have to check the last post on the first page for my response.

[Circle V]

I'm not religious, nor am I straight-edge. I do, however, try to follow a strict code of conduct. I rarely drink (and never drink to get drunk) and I refuse all drugs (excepting, of course, caffeine.)

My view of Christianity has been shaped, for the most part, by Nietzsche's Antichrist. I'd always thought that something was wrong with the religion, but I could never put my finger on it until I read that book. You can read it online here. I'd quote it, but I fear that I've already overdone it in other threads. I'll allow you to form your own opinions.

To me, religion has always seemed like a crutch for those who fear the unknown and need the comfort of knowing that there's someone watching over them at all times. I don't mean to condemn all Christians by saying this-- I realize that Christianity does great things, and is necessary for some people. I just don't count myself among that group, and am glad to be able to say that.

[TheKorovaMilkbar]

Hmm... I respect your opinion Circle V, but that is quite a bash on any religious person. I've never used my religion as a crutch, and I'd be just as strong a person without religion. It just gives me something to contemplate on starry nights or when I have realizations about other worldly things. I don't depend on religion to do anything for me, and I don't even relate it to death in most situations, which most people find odd. They think that's what it's all about. Well, it's not. Those who consider me weaker because of my personal beliefs only make me stronger and more passionate about what I do in everyday life. I understand a person not having religion, but to denounce what others wish to believe is no one's choice.

[Sanctus Dei]

Originally Posted by TheKorovaMilkbar

I feel like this discussion went down the toilet after I made my last post. Bunnicula, you might have to check the last post on the first page for my response.

I apologize Korova... I just couldn't help myself. *pout*

Anyway, I agree with Korova...what you choose to believe or follow is entirely up to you and should never be frowned upon or changed by anyone... I'm just as annoyed by a pushy Johova witness as I am by a fact spewing atheist. Truth of the matter is no matter what I believe personally it's no one elses job to educate me unless I ask.

[bunnicula]

[quote]

Originally Posted by TheKorovaMilkbar

So just as I chose religion, others did not. We all have our own reasons for going down the path we chose. But that is all of our own worries and would take a lifetime to explain down to detail. Yes, there are many close-minded christians. Millions. But I don't have anything to do with them. This belief is my own choice, not something force-fed to me, so I didn't have to try to draw back away from it.

Good point. I have also met many closed-minded Christians, and many closed-minded people in general, including people who proclaim to be so open-minded that they ridicule those who choose to follow a religious path. That is also a form of closed-mindedness that I have found in the gothic community (and the punk, alternative, and scientific communities) where I used to live. I have known Goths to ridicule Christians in the same way that Christians reject people who choose a different path. (Not to say that All Christians act this way, or all goths, obviously) I am not speaking about stereotypes, but of personal experience. Of course, many people have had more positive experiences, and may have consequently developed different views.

I believe in God, but do not follow an organized religion. I don't think it is the right path for me. I consider myself spiritual, but not religious.

Because of how I was raised, I have somewhat of a prejudice about religious people being non-thinking followers. I am not proud of this, and am trying to educate myself about it. It is helpful to hear the viewpoints of educated, thinking people who have chosen to follow an organized religion.

[Pathogen.]

Originally Posted by Circle V

To me, religion has always seemed like a crutch for those who fear the unknown and need the comfort of knowing that there's someone watching over them at all times.

CIRCLE V: That's what religion is for me, too. That's why I chose to become Agnostic after 3 bad experiences with it. I don't need some alleged "higher power" to make me responsible for my own behaviour & its consequences. Because of fear of the unknown, bigots cling to & use religion as their rationale for their scornful behaviour towards people who don't worship their "higher power" like them, have the same beliefs or look like them. The same could be said for armed extremists/fanatics [especially the Protestant & Catholic "pro-life" types who shoot at doctors & bomb their abortion clinics].

[succubus,queenofvampires]

Originally Posted by Godslayer Jillian

The Ferrero Rocher chocolates are unholy delicious

Yummy!!! They really are! * licks lips*

[Jane13]

I think most people on here know that I am converting to Catholocism (I'm getting baptized, first communion, and confirmation this Holey Saturday Night).

Similar to Korova's, my parents have never made any attemt to control which religion I chose. They were usually pretty indifferent, but supportive when I really needed it, while I studied and tried on many religions including Budhism, Atheism, various indiginous religions... and I whent through a long period of Agnosticism. To me Catholocism is the right path, and my parents were pretty surprised that I chose this religion, but they are supporting me through it.

I don't like that most of the people my age that are forced into the faith seem to think that I'll "get tired" of it pretty soon... I like the rituals. I beleive it really does mean something when I'm in church, or when I'm praying. I don't understand why people who want to become Christians seem to meet so much opposition by "open-minded" communities (not here, but at school and other places).

meh... a few of my thoughts...

[Sobeh]

If I can ask, what about Catholicism has attracted you so much? And, are there still points of doctrine with which you disagree? Also, how did the RCIA process strike you? I'm really curious about how that process has impacted you, and if it simply feels right or if it addresses a lack that you felt couldn't be met otherwise? Sorry if I intrude too much...

[Empty_Purple_Stars]

Congratulations Janey, I am so glad you are happy.

I support you in whatever you choose to do.

I would LOVE to see Pictures from your Confirmation when you get them.

*smooches*

[Circle V]

I didn't mean it as an insult against all religious people. There are, of course, the exceptions-- yourself included.

Originally Posted by TheKorovaMilkbar

I don't depend on religion to do anything for me, and I don't even relate it to death in most situations, which most people find odd.

What *do* you believe, then? I, like you, think deeply about religion quite often, but I don't find that a reason to place my faith in it.

[Jane13]

I love you guys ^^

I guess the first thing that drew me to the church was actually my grandmother. She was the strongest woman I have ever known, and also converted to Catholicism at a young age. Her funeral also had a big impact on me... it was the first Catholic funeral I had ever been to. My mom showed me how to make the signs and when to say what. Even though I didn’t really understand what was going on at seven or eight years old, I really knew something important was happening when we said the words and made the signs.

Another was my cousin’s wedding. At this time (it actually wasn’t long ago, I was probably twelve or thirteen) I was pretty bitter about being in a church of any kind, even though I was excited about the party afterwards. I find myself trying to think cynically on the whole thing, but as soon as I was doing the signs and the prayers I found myself having the same feeling of some greater thing happening through our actions that I could not deny...

Most recently (before deciding to convert), toward the end of the school year last year my friend, whose family is Russian Orthodox, invited me to go to Vespers with them after her first violin recital. They were very open with their faith and gladly answered any questions I had. Their service is also full of rich symbols, and invite all of the senses to be part of the service. The story that their priest told that day also had a big impact on me- it was the story of St. Mary of Egypt. (Here is a link to her story- http://www.antiochian.org/saint_mary_of_egypt)

.... in a few more posts, I may be able to answer a few more questions, Sobeh ^^; Also, these are just a few of the experiences I have had that drew me to Christianity.

[Jane13]

"And, are there still points of doctrine with which you disagree?"

Threre are points of the doctrine that I am very unsure of, but the Apostle's Creed, the things that make the church what it is, are what I truly beleive.

" I beleive in God, the Fther Almighty, creator of heaven and earth.

I beleive in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord.

He was concieved of the Holey Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary.

He suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried. He descended into hell.

On the third day he rose again. He ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again to judge the living and the dead.

I beleive in the Holey Spirit, the holey catholic Church, the communion of saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and the life everlasting."

[Circle V]

Why do you believe those things, Jane13?

[Jane13]

"Also, how did the RCIA process strike you?"

Actually, the actual classes where I live have actually made me admire my Orthodox friend's church for their ability to maintain their traditions... it's not that I have anything against protestant denominations in any way, but I feel the church that teaches RCIA in my area is trying really hard to "fit in" with protestant denominations. That is, they seem to downplay the things that we truly are supposed to beleive have spiritual effect. Like, they never really say that we no longer believe that communion wine is truly the blood of christ, but they do spend a lot of time showing much of the liturgy is "symbolism", with which I highly disagree. But as I find that I simply cannot be protestant, I find that I also cannot be Orthodox...

Anyway, the nuns and the priest are pretty neat, but I feel as though I learn a lot on my own just reading the Catechism of the Catholic Church, the Bible, and various other texts.

It has been an enriching experience, but I almost wish I had been able to take the classes somewherea little more formal.

[Jane13]

Originally Posted by Circle V

Why do you believe those things, Jane13?

I know it sounds silly or foolish, but there is a restlessness in my heart when I try to deny them. Even when I didn't know that I would become a Christian, somewhere within myself I knew that when I tried to deny it I felt I was doing something wrong. No one I really knew on a close level would ever tell me that denying these things is a 'bad thing', and yet I felt it. It's very personal, and I'm sorry I can give no better answer.

[Circle V]

That's fine. Thanks for answering-- lots of people take it as an insult when I question (literally) their faith.

[Empty_Purple_Stars]

Originally Posted by Jane13

I know it sounds silly or foolish, but there is a restlessness in my heart when I try to deny them. Even when I didn't know that I would become a Christian, somewhere within myself I knew that when I tried to deny it I felt I was doing something wrong. No one I really knew on a close level would ever tell me that denying these things is a 'bad thing', and yet I felt it. It's very personal, and I'm sorry I can give no better answer.

No better answer is needed Babe.

That was perfect..

*Hugs*

[Jane13]

Originally Posted by Circle V

That's fine. Thanks for answering-- lots of people take it as an insult when I question (literally) their faith.

*hugs back* Thanks so much, stars ^^

No problem, V. I wasn't always this faith, so I know you don't mean it as an insult.

I'm really starting to hog this thread 0.0

[Sanctus Dei]

You've the best answers yet sweet heart, keep it up.

[psychopenguin]

Jane13 I commend you for committing to such a faith. Though I had very bad experiences with a particular Catholic chuch and do hold some resentment toward that church I still believe that the Catholic community is one of the most supportive. >.< I hate to admit it but it's true. It just wasn't for me however. It felt wrong for me when I went to Mass and other Ceremonies. Be careful when it comes to the matrons of your church... they tend to be a little manipulative (in my experience). I hope you find peace and happiness on this path you've chose to take. ^_^

[TheKorovaMilkbar]

Originally Posted by bunnicula

I have also met many closed-minded Christians, and many closed-minded people in general, including people who proclaim to be so open-minded that they ridicule those who choose to follow a religious path. That is also a form of closed-mindedness that I have found in the gothic community (and the punk, alternative, and scientific communities) where I used to live. I have known Goths to ridicule Christians in the same way that Christians reject people who choose a different path. (Not to say that All Christians act this way, or all goths, obviously) I am not speaking about stereotypes, but of personal experience. Of course, many people have had more positive experiences, and may have consequently developed different views.

The one thing all of those people have in common is their ignorance it seems. I guess the rest of us can only look to each other for the answers we seek. It's too bad we're all seemingly a rarity these days (truly open-minded people). But I enjoy the encounter with every one of them, despite their views.

Thank you for being one of those courteous and open-minded people.


Circle V: I didn't figure you meant me any insult, I just wanted to make sure is all.

Originally Posted by CircleV

What *do* you believe, then? I, like you, think deeply about religion quite often, but I don't find that a reason to place my faith in it.

To tell you the truth, I haven't come to a conclusion yet. I've spent many nights overlooking the city wondering that, but to no avail. I don't know what to expect when I die. I'm in no hurry to figure out the answer though, I kind of like not knowing what to expect.


Jane13: Good luck, babe. Please do post pictures when you get them.