Another School shooting

[AngelikDemonik]

You can't compare what happens in public schools to that of what happens in parochial schools--There are considerably more public schools, with considerably more students at each of them.

[JCC]

Originally Posted by AngelikDemonik

You can't compare what happens in public schools to that of what happens in parochial schools--There are considerably more public schools, with considerably more students at each of them.

Not to mention that they tend to be a hell of a lot stricter.

Also, the main negative factor of implementing a religion into schools is the amount of religions currently active. You use one, and every other religious group feels alienated and shunned and that is a dangerous position to be in. With extremism growing in all faiths (Islam is just the most publicized), I think that a secular approach is a lot better in that respect. Step on nobody's toes.

[PinstripesAndPithHelmets]

I'm still going to tout the original idea of "separation of church and state." Most of us on here would be considered "hellworthy" by the majority of organized religions, anyway.

On that note, I'm glad I bought my shades, but I do wonder if black leather will be too heavy in the underworld. I guess I'll... ahem...

See you all in HELL!

[PinstripesAndPithHelmets]

I'm still going to tout the original idea of "separation of church and state." Most of us on here would be considered "hellworthy" by the majority of organized religions anyway.

On that note, I'm glad I bought my shades, but I do wonder if black leather will be too heavy in the underworld. I guess I'll... ahem...

See you all in HELL!

[Zavulon]

The Problem with the argument that there are no school shootings in Religious schools, is sure maybe there are not any of them[that Amish school shooting...tsk tsk... you neglected that one..], but you are declining to mention how suicide has always been a problem in those schools.

[Invisigoth69]

Originally Posted by JCC

Atheist crusades: zero. None. Nada. Null.

Christian crusades: Many. Nine official ones, a few others that weren't official.

Atheist civil wars: zero. None. Nada. Null.

Christian civil wars: Many.

Atheist bombings: zero. None. Nada. Null.

Christian bombings: Northern Ireland, 'nuff said.

Muslim crusades: Many. Nine official ones, a few others that weren't official.

Atheist civil wars: zero. None. Nada. Null.

Muslim civil wars: Many.

Atheist bombings: zero. None. Nada. Null.

Muslim bombings: Northern Ireland, 'nuff said


Now.... let us have some OTHER religions here where we can do an edit/replace in MSword. Really, you can probably come up with another one.
Remember, God (as you percieve Him/Her/It to be...) did NOT create religion.

[Jonathan]

I think it is safe to say that there not only a difference in the number of Christian schools, but a huge difference in terms of class size. My senior class in '99 had 12 people in it. I believe the entire High School, 9th-12th had something in the realm of 30. I'm not going to pretend we all liked each other, but there weren't any anonymous strangers.

In a lot of cases, these kids go through four years of Highschool with the same people, same peers same teachers. After a certain point, I think it is natural to start to identify with people you spend so much time with. Hence words like "we" and "us". For a lot of people, being surrounded by strangers can be very isolating, which is a pressure that most people in private schools really have no concept of in a meaningful day-to-day sense.

This might make an interesting thread on its own, if it isn't one already.

Best Regards

[HumanePain]

Originally Posted by Jonathan

I think it is safe to say that there not only a difference in the number of Christian schools, but a huge difference in terms of class size. My senior class in '99 had 12 people in it. I believe the entire High School, 9th-12th had something in the realm of 30. I'm not going to pretend we all liked each other, but there weren't any anonymous strangers.

In a lot of cases, these kids go through four years of Highschool with the same people, same peers same teachers. After a certain point, I think it is natural to start to identify with people you spend so much time with. Hence words like "we" and "us". For a lot of people, being surrounded by strangers can be very isolating, which is a pressure that most people in private schools really have no concept of in a meaningful day-to-day sense.

This might make an interesting thread on its own, if it isn't one already.

Best Regards

Thank you for the dispassionate inside view. Great perspective.

[Opteron_Man]

Not another one! What the fuck is his problem? 6 people dead, thats just not right.

[Drake Dun]

Originally Posted by HumanePain

A lack of teaching of morals to young people, plain and simple. You can chart the increase in school shootings against the removal of prayer in schools and the removal of the Ten Commandments from courts etc, and clearly see an inverse relationship.

You can also plot the number of pirates doing business on the oceans against global temperatures and find an inverse relationship, thereby proving that global warming is due to there not being enough pirates in the world.

And you can plot the number of prayers said in Japanese schools (0) against the number of shootings in Japanese schools (0). Or, if you really want to embarass yourself, have a look at the statistics and find out that there is a prounced correlation between religiosity and violence.

The countries with negligible rates of violence are the secular ones. Even in the States, the states that have the most violence tend to be the more religious ones.

Correlation/causation fallacy! You owe 50 pushups!

Drake

[Drake Dun]

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

As for Atheism being an all-peaceful system...no, I'm afraid that's not always the case.

Atheism qua atheism is exactly as violent or non-violent as non-astrology or non-unicorn believing. Trying to figure out whether atheism is moral or immoral is like trying to figure out the color of nothingness.

An atheist can be moral, immoral, amoral, whatever. But it comes from some place other than his opinions on the question of religion.

Drake

[Apathy's_Child]

All good arguments. The last two posts make me wish I was a cheerleader.

Come to think of it, I would look totally hot in one of those little outfits.

[PinstripesAndPithHelmets]

Cheerleader, eh? Can't go wrong with those outfits, long as you've got the build for 'em. Plaid skirts, too.

I went to Catholic school. Can ye tell?

[Apathy's_Child]

As long as you don't mind catching a fleeting glimpse of my junk every time I flip over, I think I can confidently describe myself as having the build.

[PinstripesAndPithHelmets]

If you're female, then no. If you're male, just put on a plaid skirt and call it a kilt. It works. "Fuckin' guy in a skirt!" "It's not a skirt. It's a kilt!"

"oh, then that's cool."

Strange world, eh?

[Apathy's_Child]

True story dude, true story. Yet another example of rampant sexism.

And chicks think THEY have it tough...... whiny assed bitches. XD

[PinstripesAndPithHelmets]

Hahaha. The double standard is great, isn't it? If a guy drinks 'til he pukes and keeps going he's a hero; if a girl does it, she's a skank. I can't say I approve, but I am glad to be male.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I must prepare myself for the onslaught of those offended by my lack of political correctness.

[Tam Li Hua]

Originally Posted by PinstripesAndPithHelmets

Hahaha. The double standard is great, isn't it? If a guy drinks 'til he pukes and keeps going he's a hero; if a girl does it, she's a skank. I can't say I approve, but I am glad to be male.

Not so much.

If -anyone- drinks until they are sick, then I lose respect for them, no matter what sex or gender they are. :/

Where do these odd generalities come from? I've never heard of such things, to be honest.

[PinstripesAndPithHelmets]

Perhaps it's just bar culture here. Maybe it's just the people I know. Maybe it's just me, and people really don't think like that. But, I've seen it. It ain't fair, it ain't right, but I'm just saying that's what I've seen.

[Tam Li Hua]

Originally Posted by PinstripesAndPithHelmets

Perhaps it's just bar culture here. Maybe it's just the people I know. Maybe it's just me, and people really don't think like that. But, I've seen it. It ain't fair, it ain't right, but I'm just saying that's what I've seen.

Honestly, I would say that if those you hang around honestly think like that, then you need to hang around better, more intelligent people.

Not to be rude or condescending to your friends of course, but I agree that there should be no double-standard for that kind of behavior.

[Apathy's_Child]

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

Honestly, I would say that if those you hang around honestly think like that, then you need to hang around better, more intelligent people.

Not to be rude or condescending to your friends of course, but I agree that there should be no double-standard for that kind of behavior.

Sure, in a perfect world. Yet, as sweet as I find your idealism, it ignores the fact that like 85% of the pop[ulation is cripplingly stupid. There IS a general double standard, though it's generally implied rather than stated outright. Most people are for sexual equality in theory, but general attitudes tell us we're nowhere near there yet.

A guy pursues a girl firmly – not in a date-r.ape way, just not taking no for an answer, and pining for her. It’s adorably cute, right? Yet a chick does it, and she’s sad and desperate. There are tons of examples like this.

I can only guess you’ve been lucky enough not to be surrounded by total morons. If so, enjoy it, for you are fortunate indeed. For most of us, though, the morons are numerous enough to be unavoidable.

[Tam Li Hua]

Originally Posted by Apathy's_Child

Sure, in a perfect world. Yet, as sweet as I find your idealism, it ignores the fact that like 85% of the pop[ulation is cripplingly stupid. There IS a general double standard, though it's generally implied rather than stated outright. Most people are for sexual equality in theory, but general attitudes tell us we're nowhere near there yet.

A guy pursues a girl firmly – not in a date-r.ape way, just not taking no for an answer, and pining for her. It’s adorably cute, right? Yet a chick does it, and she’s sad and desperate. There are tons of examples like this.

I can only guess you’ve been lucky enough not to be surrounded by total morons. If so, enjoy it, for you are fortunate indeed. For most of us, though, the morons are numerous enough to be unavoidable.

Granted, one can not hide from idiots forever, but that doesn't mean one must succumb to them either.

As for the stereotype of "It's okay for a guy, but not for a girl!", I guess what I'm looking for is a bit of a more specific example: When did this actually happen? What was the story behind it? Is this -really- how most people think? And so on.

[Godslayer Jillian]

Originally Posted by Jonathan

I think it is safe to say that there not only a difference in the number of Christian schools, but a huge difference in terms of class size. My senior class in '99 had 12 people in it. I believe the entire High School, 9th-12th had something in the realm of 30. I'm not going to pretend we all liked each other, but there weren't any anonymous strangers.

In a lot of cases, these kids go through four years of Highschool with the same people, same peers same teachers. After a certain point, I think it is natural to start to identify with people you spend so much time with. Hence words like "we" and "us". For a lot of people, being surrounded by strangers can be very isolating, which is a pressure that most people in private schools really have no concept of in a meaningful day-to-day sense.

This might make an interesting thread on its own, if it isn't one already.

Best Regards

I agree wholeheartedly.
I have never thought of that before but it's true. After four years with the same people which don't amount to more than fifty, it is impossible not to get along with them.

[Apathy's_Child]

Originally Posted by Tam Li Hua

Granted, one can not hide from idiots forever, but that doesn't mean one must succumb to them either.

As for the stereotype of "It's okay for a guy, but not for a girl!", I guess what I'm looking for is a bit of a more specific example: When did this actually happen? What was the story behind it? Is this -really- how most people think? And so on.

Maybe not MOST people, but a hell of a lot. And like I said, I don't even think it's a conscious thing usually, which is even scarier.

People won't actually come out and say, "oh, that's not cool, she's a GIRL", but I tend to find a double standard if you look at the subtext of many situations. Ok, example - and I'm not gonna touch the guys, as everyone already knows how sexist THEY can be. I live with my girlfriend, and a roommate who's a friend of mine. She has people over a lot, so her friends regularly see me, hungover, in my underwear, rubbing my eyes, coming down, sometimes showing a little more than they probably care to see. They don't mind. They think it's funny, even cute. Yet I once heard them ripping one of their number to fucking shreds because they were sunbathing, and this girl had a tiny little bit of hair sticking out of her bikini. They were so revolted by her inability to shave herself properly, they practically took it as a personal affront.

Also, I never heard any of my guy friends call a girl a slut or similar, outright. It's not PC for guys to say it. Yet I've lost count of the number of times I've heard girls talking about one another that way. These attitudes have become so deeply engrained in our culture, that we can now rely on women to enforce them.

[Tam Li Hua]

Originally Posted by Apathy's_Child

Maybe not MOST people, but a hell of a lot. And like I said, I don't even think it's a conscious thing usually, which is even scarier.

People won't actually come out and say, "oh, that's not cool, she's a GIRL", but I tend to find a double standard if you look at the subtext of many situations. Ok, example - and I'm not gonna touch the guys, as everyone already knows how sexist THEY can be. I live with my girlfriend, and a roommate who's a friend of mine. She has people over a lot, so her friends regularly see me, hungover, in my underwear, rubbing my eyes, coming down, sometimes showing a little more than they probably care to see. They don't mind. They think it's funny, even cute. Yet I once heard them ripping one of their number to fucking shreds because they were sunbathing, and this girl had a tiny little bit of hair sticking out of her bikini. They were so revolted by her inability to shave herself properly, they practically took it as a personal affront.

Also, I never heard any of my guy friends call a girl a slut or similar, outright. It's not PC for guys to say it. Yet I've lost count of the number of times I've heard girls talking about one another that way. These attitudes have become so deeply engrained in our culture, that we can now rely on women to enforce them.

Yikes! Yeah, that's not cool; those are the kind of girls I went to high school with. I never really cared for their type much. :/

Along with that, I think guys tear each other down in a similar way, and probably for similar reasons.