Pro-Gun Anti-Gun.

[Deadmanwalking_05]

Originally Posted by Saya

I know this is Delk's question but its easy. I wouldn't confront the attacker, and if I had a gun securely locked up somewhere I probably wouldn't have time to retrieve it. If it wasn't locked up I'd be irresponsible. Or I'd arm myself with a bat and run. Or after I take self defense classes I'd have a chance to fight, but I'm not stupid enough to do so.

Did you know that men are more likely to be victims of violent crime? And that the violent crime rate is going down? And most of the time when women are attacked, especially when it comes to things like **** its by someone they know and in their home. Statistically speaking, my odds are good as long as I keep my eye on the men I know, I don't have to live my life with the fear of getting attacked on the street, and I refuse to do so. I think its just good marketing strategy for gun manufacturer's to keep the fear of other people in others, and its a tactic to control women to always have the threat of attack and **** over their heads.



I bet if the government does survey the internet, they're laughing their asses off at you.

Let them laugh,I hope they find what I've said very funny.

Because I know I'll be laughing too, only for a much different reason.

[Mir]

Prepare to be dazzled by my eloquence: Deadmanwalking_05 - fuck you.

[Terminus]

Originally Posted by Delkaetre

Guns, if stolen, will quite likely be lethal- if they're resold on the black market, they probably won't be going to decorate someone's home, but for actual use.

Why should the person who's guns were stolen be punished by gun laws restricting his right to have said guns? If my car is stolen and used in a vehicular homicide, should I be punished by being denied the right to have a car? Keep in mind that cars have contributed to 42,196 (1) number of deaths in 2001, where as guns have contributed to only 29,573 (2) in 2001.

Cars a perfect analogy. When used safely for legal purposes, neither cars or guns will produce illegal fatalities. When used unsafely or for illegal purposes, neither of which are the faults of guns/cars or safe drivers/gun owners, they result in fatalities. Do you purpose that we bar people owning 8 cars, just as you would bar people from owning 8 guns?

Originally Posted by Delkaetre

He can question me if he likes about the things I have, or believe in, or support- but nothing I have or do will directly kill people.

Do you have kitchen knives? Virtually anything can "directly" result in the death of someone, when we use multiple definitions of the word "direct".

[Delkaetre]

Terminus - Guns are a more attractive target for resale, more likely to result in serious injury, don't require close contact for that serious injury or fatality, and are more discreet than a car. They are created and designed simply and solely to kill or wound. (Your gun stats show over a third to nearly a half of gun deaths are homicides- acts of malice, not accident)
Even knives are meant for food, not people. Cars are for transport, road accidents are relatively rare given the amount of time spent driving and even rarer still is a malicious road accident. But guns, when kept at home for defense, are for no reason other than killing people and/or animals. And I just don't see any possible reason for that many guns except for greed and a possible lack of restraint.
I don't deny his right to own them, I question his good judgement in owning so many for no reason other than "I can because the bit of paper says I can".


Deadman- If I was attacked on the street, I'd let them have my handbag. Robbers don't usually want to kill whoever they're robbing- it's just not worth it. It makes the stakes higher in every possible way, destroys the chance of identity theft, and means there's way more chance of someone actually coming after them.
If I was attacked by a random drunk bastard in the street rather than a mugger, I'd be terrified, and I'd probably yell for help and try to calm him down. I'm not good at running, so there wouldn't be much point unless I thought I could get a good lead. I *am* good at calming aggressive drunks down, though. I've had practice. If he attacks me, I'd rather not be armed- in a struggle, it's possible for a physically stronger assailant to disarm you, and that can put your weapon at their hands.

If I was attacked in my own home... I have insurance to cover things. I'd far rather the insurance paid for stolen goods than I risked being killed for trying to be brave and failing to find/load/aim a weapon in time.
At some point later, after the shock and horror and calling the police, I'd be wondering how they got onto the fourth floor through the four different security systems including a keypad and electronic fob that the new place has.
If my adrenaline got the better of me and I thought "No! I cannot let this violent and possibly armed person take my comic books!" then I cannot predict what I would do. Possibilities include throwing the blanket on them to blind them, sneaking out to grab a nearby solid object and hit them with it, biting, etc.

But, quite frankly, if someone who is possibly armed and probably violent wants my stuff that badly, they can have it. I have good locks, double glazed windows and a heavy door. I have household and contents insurance. I do not think that sleeping with a loaded gun under my pillow is wise, or that hoping I can load an empty gun quickly and quietly enough to shoot is effective.

A gun raises the stakes. A gun makes it clear that I am willing to endanger their life. If they're in the middle of my house and I raised a gun to them, I'd be fucked if they shot first. Life isn't like TV, robbers very, very rarely kill.

I feel no need to be armed. I'm moving into an area with statistically higher crime rates, to the largest city in the country, where I plan to be abroad on my own late at night fairly frequently since I want to visit my friends in other parts of the city.
I would rather be unarmed and give them my money than risk being stabbed because they thought I was going to attack them.

Well, that became a bit run on. I'm also fairly sure that it won't have managed to get my views across, because your (deadman's) thought processes seem alien to mine. I don't know how you think the way you do, and why you can't or won't see what seems sensible to me, so if you don't agree with me, or think I'm a pussy, or want to make some snide comment about "seeing how I feel about being unarmed when I really am attacked" or whatever, fine.

[Duane]

God damn! DMW, stop buying into the media.

[Terminus]

Originally Posted by Delkaetre

Terminus - Guns are a more attractive target for resale, more likely to result in serious injury, don't require close contact for that serious injury or fatality, and are more discreet than a car. They are created and designed simply and solely to kill or wound. (Your gun stats show over a third to nearly a half of gun deaths are homicides- acts of malice, not accident)

No, I assure you that cars are far more attractive targets for resale (A car can go for $3,000, a gun maybe a fifth of that), and as the statistics I presented have shown, far more likely for serious injury.

Close contact and discreetness are irrelevant, in my opinion, when they cause double the number of fatalities per year.

Originally Posted by Delkaetre

Even knives are meant for food, not people. Cars are for transport, road accidents are relatively rare given the amount of time spent driving and even rarer still is a malicious road accident.

With the number of guns in the United States, I find it highly unlikely that more time is spent driving than being in the presence of some gun, be it known or unknown.

Originally Posted by Delkaetre

But guns, when kept at home for defense, are for no reason other than killing people and/or animals. And I just don't see any possible reason for that many guns except for greed and a possible lack of restraint.

But why the operator "for defense"? Unless I'm missing something, his guns aren't particularly useful for that (a single shot rifle isn't a rifle for self defense), but they are particularly useful for sporting purposes. That said, I can't speak to what he thinks they are all for.

Originally Posted by Delkaetre

I don't deny his right to own them, I question his good judgement in owning so many for no reason other than "I can because the bit of paper says I can".

If they're locked up in a gun safe, what does it matter?

[Deadmanwalking_05]

Originally Posted by Delkaetre

Terminus - Guns are a more attractive target for resale, more likely to result in serious injury, don't require close contact for that serious injury or fatality, and are more discreet than a car. They are created and designed simply and solely to kill or wound. (Your gun stats show over a third to nearly a half of gun deaths are homicides- acts of malice, not accident)
Even knives are meant for food, not people. Cars are for transport, road accidents are relatively rare given the amount of time spent driving and even rarer still is a malicious road accident. But guns, when kept at home for defense, are for no reason other than killing people and/or animals. And I just don't see any possible reason for that many guns except for greed and a possible lack of restraint.
I don't deny his right to own them, I question his good judgement in owning so many for no reason other than "I can because the bit of paper says I can".


Deadman- If I was attacked on the street, I'd let them have my handbag. Robbers don't usually want to kill whoever they're robbing- it's just not worth it. It makes the stakes higher in every possible way, destroys the chance of identity theft, and means there's way more chance of someone actually coming after them.
If I was attacked by a random drunk bastard in the street rather than a mugger, I'd be terrified, and I'd probably yell for help and try to calm him down. I'm not good at running, so there wouldn't be much point unless I thought I could get a good lead. I *am* good at calming aggressive drunks down, though. I've had practice. If he attacks me, I'd rather not be armed- in a struggle, it's possible for a physically stronger assailant to disarm you, and that can put your weapon at their hands.

If I was attacked in my own home... I have insurance to cover things. I'd far rather the insurance paid for stolen goods than I risked being killed for trying to be brave and failing to find/load/aim a weapon in time.
At some point later, after the shock and horror and calling the police, I'd be wondering how they got onto the fourth floor through the four different security systems including a keypad and electronic fob that the new place has.
If my adrenaline got the better of me and I thought "No! I cannot let this violent and possibly armed person take my comic books!" then I cannot predict what I would do. Possibilities include throwing the blanket on them to blind them, sneaking out to grab a nearby solid object and hit them with it, biting, etc.

But, quite frankly, if someone who is possibly armed and probably violent wants my stuff that badly, they can have it. I have good locks, double glazed windows and a heavy door. I have household and contents insurance. I do not think that sleeping with a loaded gun under my pillow is wise, or that hoping I can load an empty gun quickly and quietly enough to shoot is effective.

A gun raises the stakes. A gun makes it clear that I am willing to endanger their life. If they're in the middle of my house and I raised a gun to them, I'd be fucked if they shot first. Life isn't like TV, robbers very, very rarely kill.

I feel no need to be armed. I'm moving into an area with statistically higher crime rates, to the largest city in the country, where I plan to be abroad on my own late at night fairly frequently since I want to visit my friends in other parts of the city.
I would rather be unarmed and give them my money than risk being stabbed because they thought I was going to attack them.

Well, that became a bit run on. I'm also fairly sure that it won't have managed to get my views across, because your (deadman's) thought processes seem alien to mine. I don't know how you think the way you do, and why you can't or won't see what seems sensible to me, so if you don't agree with me, or think I'm a pussy, or want to make some snide comment about "seeing how I feel about being unarmed when I really am attacked" or whatever, fine.

I don't claim to know you.

But what you've shown on this thread is pure arrogance to the core,has it ever occurred to you that your mind set and ideas are just as alien to me.

The very idea that a firearm is more dangerous to it's owner than useful for protection sounds absurd to me in every respect.

The "Well the gun can easily be taken away from you and used against you" argument is old hat,if they are close enough to try to take my gun I'm close enough to muzzle punch them in the mouth,eye socket,or ribs and let a round off,or empty it into them as needed.


And you're right a gun does raise the steaks,but only when it comes to the owners chance of surviving a dangerous encounter

[Duane]

There will be an Atheist president before Deadman sees sense.

[Deadmanwalking_05]

Originally Posted by Duane

There will be an Atheist president before Deadman sees sense.

Says the lowly mouth breather.

[Duane]

You'll envy this "lowly mouth breather" one day when you're on death row.

[Deadmanwalking_05]

Originally Posted by Duane

You'll envy this "lowly mouth breather" one day when you're on death row.

What makes you think I'm going to end up on death row some day?

[Duane]

It should be very obvious.

[Deadmanwalking_05]

Originally Posted by Duane

It should be very obvious.

Explain away THEN all Knowing Dumb ass.

[Duane]

Think about it for a while, it'll come to you.

[Deadmanwalking_05]

Originally Posted by Duane

Think about it for a while, it'll come to you.

The fact that you don't know anything that matters,I knew that quite a few posts back.

[Alan]

Duane, why are you arguing with him?
His whole argument was nothing but calling you names.

[Deadmanwalking_05]

Originally Posted by Alan

Duane, why are you arguing with him?
His whole argument was nothing but calling you names.

Well considering his assumption that I'm going to end up on death row for some reason can't be anything more than an attack on my character.

So yes I do feel justified in my responses.

[Alan]

Not when you try to say "says the..."
That's an expression to call on something seemingly hypocritical. Example "I think you're racist" responded by "Says the person that doesn't have any black friends"

It's not just a pretty way to express a sentence. What value does it have to say "says the person that's dumb lol"?

[Delkaetre]

Terminus- cars are more often in actual use. You point out how often someone may be in the presence of a gun, that's like pointing out how often someone may be in the presence of a parked car. Cars are used and driven every day, whereas guns are not or should not be taken out unless you're shooting something or making a safety demonstration. Unless every gun owner in a America is taking their gun out in the presence of other people nearly every day, then the usage isn't comparable. A car isn't likely to kill you just sitting on the driveway, and a gun isn't likely to kill you just sitting in a cabinet.
Cars are and can be deadly- I'm not denying that at all- but they tend only to be deadly by accident, because of breakdown, poor driving conditions, or occasionally having a twat behind the wheel. Guns are used for homicide in well over a third of cases- they are a clear and definite threat with no redeeming value such as getting your kids to school or helping you go visit your aunt in another state.
Cars are also, if stolen, easier to spot- being very large indeed- rather than easily hidden as firearms are. They have a higher resale value, but they're less likely to be stolen for the purpose of killing others.

And I keep bringing up 'defense' because that's what Deadman is saying they are for. I am questioning why he could need so many for defense.
If he just outright said they were for target practice, hunting, sports shooting, I wouldn't be so bothered, but I do seriously questions the need for so many when he's only so far said that he wants them as a means of protection.


Deadman- you said "But what you've shown on this thread is pure arrogance to the core,has it ever occurred to you that your mind set and ideas are just as alien to me." and my initial reaction to that is "you stupid fuckwit". But that is not a helpful reaction. When I said that our thought processes are alien, that means just as much that you cannot see why I do what I do as it means that I can't understand you. It means that we think in different ways, not that I somehow find you impossible while you understand me perfectly.

So I will make it clear- I think you're a potentially violent moron, and you think I'm an arrogant bleeding heart liberal who deserves to be shot, and we can agree to disagree. We do not and quite possibly cannot understand each other, because our thought patterns are so very different. You can go away feeling you're the better person than my arrogant self, and I can go away with the happy belief that sooner or later you're going to end up in deep shit for your hoarding apparent readiness to use firearms in all sorts of non-lethal situations.

[Deadmanwalking_05]

Originally Posted by Delkaetre

Terminus- cars are more often in actual use. You point out how often someone may be in the presence of a gun, that's like pointing out how often someone may be in the presence of a parked car. Cars are used and driven every day, whereas guns are not or should not be taken out unless you're shooting something or making a safety demonstration. Unless every gun owner in a America is taking their gun out in the presence of other people nearly every day, then the usage isn't comparable. A car isn't likely to kill you just sitting on the driveway, and a gun isn't likely to kill you just sitting in a cabinet.
Cars are and can be deadly- I'm not denying that at all- but they tend only to be deadly by accident, because of breakdown, poor driving conditions, or occasionally having a twat behind the wheel. Guns are used for homicide in well over a third of cases- they are a clear and definite threat with no redeeming value such as getting your kids to school or helping you go visit your aunt in another state.
Cars are also, if stolen, easier to spot- being very large indeed- rather than easily hidden as firearms are. They have a higher resale value, but they're less likely to be stolen for the purpose of killing others.

And I keep bringing up 'defense' because that's what Deadman is saying they are for. I am questioning why he could need so many for defense.
If he just outright said they were for target practice, hunting, sports shooting, I wouldn't be so bothered, but I do seriously questions the need for so many when he's only so far said that he wants them as a means of protection.


Deadman- you said "But what you've shown on this thread is pure arrogance to the core,has it ever occurred to you that your mind set and ideas are just as alien to me." and my initial reaction to that is "you stupid fuckwit". But that is not a helpful reaction. When I said that our thought processes are alien, that means just as much that you cannot see why I do what I do as it means that I can't understand you. It means that we think in different ways, not that I somehow find you impossible while you understand me perfectly.

So I will make it clear- I think you're a potentially violent moron, and you think I'm an arrogant bleeding heart liberal who deserves to be shot, and we can agree to disagree. We do not and quite possibly cannot understand each other, because our thought patterns are so very different. You can go away feeling you're the better person than my arrogant self, and I can go away with the happy belief that sooner or later you're going to end up in deep shit for your hoarding apparent readiness to use firearms in all sorts of non-lethal situations.

And you are still an arrogant prick that likes to jump to conclusions about people that disagree with you.


For example.
Where in the red and blue hell did I say that you were"A bleeding heart Liberal that needs to be shot"?

[Delkaetre]

Your general attitude when people have disagreed is one of "well, we'll see whose laughing", implying a strong wish to see various unpleasantries (civil war, mugging, sudden government evilness) happen to them.
Since I number as one of your critics, it seemed sensible to assume that you had the same sentiment toward me as toward any other.
As for bleeding heart liberal... if you haven't picked up that I am one yet, then you aren't doing too well in the observation scores.

[Duane]

I'm just giving him a piece of his own medicine. If I was arguing with him, actually arguing, he wouldn't be doing so good. Hell, I think Necro could out argue him.

[Deadmanwalking_05]

Originally Posted by Delkaetre

Your general attitude when people have disagreed is one of "well, we'll see whose laughing", implying a strong wish to see various unpleasantries (civil war, mugging, sudden government evilness) happen to them.
Since I number as one of your critics, it seemed sensible to assume that you had the same sentiment toward me as toward any other.
As for bleeding heart liberal... if you haven't picked up that I am one yet, then you aren't doing too well in the observation scores.

You're the only one putting a label on yourself remember that.

The reason I told Saya I would be laughing too,is because I would be proven right and My"Paranoid" thoughts would have justification at this stage in the game,would they or would they not?

[Deadmanwalking_05]

One reason Anti-gunners have been losing support to disarm American Citizens.

Incidents like these in Gun-Free Zones (Read that as "Mass-shooter Free Fire Zones") Those were brought to us by Liberals.

Just to be clear I'm not a member of either party so this is not a Left/Right blame game.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTpSygg3D5I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJ13CZ4Hekg

Since people only break in to steal stuff,I guess I just made this last one up...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3vWsa4ags

[Duane]

Are you one of those people who bring a gun to church?